DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 13604--------------------------------------------------
Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: magpie1892
Date: December 5, 2019, 3:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear the AR as had a mare.
Carroll flicks the ball on to Shelvey who runs onto the ball,
flag goes up, Attwell acknowledges but no whistle goes, all
Sheff Utd defenders stop, Shelvey continues and keeper doesn't
make an effort and Shelvey puts ball into the net
Goes to VAR and its onside, goal given.
AR keep the flag down for tight offsides & play to the whistle
I don't mind as we're 2-0 up :)
#Post#: 13608--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: December 5, 2019, 4:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Play to the whistle has always been the maxim! Sheffield United
didn't and paid the price.
Well done to Stuart Atwell for letting the play develop and
giving Newcastle the goal which VAR confirmed.
I do not like VAR, however, don't put any blame on it for this
goal. Players know that the ball is still live until the referee
blows to stop play.
#Post#: 13609--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: Carter
Date: December 5, 2019, 4:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> Play to the whistle has always been the maxim! Sheffield
United didn't and paid the price.
> Well done to Stuart Atwell for lettin the play develop and
giving Newcastle the goal which VAR confirmed.
> I do not like VAR, however, don't put any blame on it for this
goal. Players know that the ball is still live until the referee
blows to stop play.
>
--- End Quote ---
Like you I hate VAR
I also dislike the PGMOL's instruction to tell the assistants to
raise their flag and the ref to let play continue.
Once the europeans show them the way to let VAR do its job.
#Post#: 13611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: Blade
Date: December 6, 2019, 2:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
While the decision is factually correct, this is no longer the
same sport that we once loved. The game is dead until this VAR
circus is culled.
#Post#: 13613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: December 6, 2019, 2:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have only seem the limited highlights on SKY but wasn't it
Carroll coming from an offside position that the AR flagged for?
It didn't show that far back on SKY.
General question, not necessarily associated with this game:
It's alright people saying for the AR to keep the flag down for
tight decisions but at the time, according to the AR and in
their view it isn't a tight decision, so they put their flag up.
Who determines what is or isn't a tight decision in real time?
#Post#: 13614--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: adcr85
Date: December 6, 2019, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
With all 'VAR' situations i like to try and replay the situation
as of 12 months ago.
Assistant puts his flag up when Carroll goes to head the ball
and becomes 'active', as Shelvey is running towards the flick on
it whistle blows - Shelvey gives the assistant a bit of a look
and maybe a 2 second mouth off, the TV images show a very wide
angle still of when the ball was played towards Carroll,
co-commentator says something along the lines of 'that was very
tight' Sheff U restart with an IFK. The incident won't make any
highlights packages and probably won't make any long read
newspaper articles either.
I guess my point is has VAR really improved football - because
surely that is what it was brought in for? Yes as match
officials we want to get everything correct, but I also think
part of our job is to keep football fair, and in my opinion the
situation last night just wasn't fair. for 36 months lease
To use the horrible word this to me the 'product' of Premier
League Football is being damaged by VAR, it is becoming a
lottery and is taking away from the enjoyment of the game,
#Post#: 13617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: December 6, 2019, 4:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> I have only seem the limited highlights on SKY but wasn't it
Carroll coming from an offside position that the AR flagged for?
It didn't show that far back on SKY.
>
> General question, not necessarily associated with this game:
> It's alright people saying for the AR to keep the flag down
for tight decisions but at the time, according to the AR and in
their view it isn't a tight decision, so they put their flag up.
> Who determines what is or isn't a tight decision in real time?
>
--- End Quote ---
I take your point QuoCob, but if the AR was flagging for Carroll
rather than Shelvey, surely he would have advised Attwell (? and
VAR) via the comms system. In this situation, I suspect VAR
would not have intervened and Attwell would have disallowed the
goal, albeit belatedly.
With regard to what might have happened 12 months ago, yes VAR
is hard work and a work in progress, but it is what the clubs
wanted; and if correct decisions are confirmed via VAR eg Zaha
going down in a heap at Selhurst Park on Tuesday evening - no
penalty, and wrong decisions are reversed, such as the penalty
award last weekend at ??? which was correctly overruled, then
imo VAR will continue in the PL.
#Post#: 13619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 6, 2019, 4:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I don't see how anyone could say last night wasn't fair.
Newcastle were onside rather than offside and thus correctly had
a goal allowed rather than disallowed.
I prefer the Premier League's approach compared to UEFA where
assistants don't flag for about 5 minutes even with the most
obvious offsides.
#Post#: 13621--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: December 6, 2019, 4:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=1219.msg13613#msg13613
date=1575622305]
> I have only seem the limited highlights on SKY but wasn't it
Carroll coming from an offside position that the AR flagged for?
It didn't show that far back on SKY.
>
> General question, not necessarily associated with this game:
> It's alright people saying for the AR to keep the flag down
for tight decisions but at the time, according to the AR and in
their view it isn't a tight decision, so they put their flag up.
> Who determines what is or isn't a tight decision in real time?
>
--- End Quote ---
I take your point QuoCob, but if the AR was flagging for Carroll
rather than Shelvey, surely he would have advised Attwell (? and
VAR) via the comms system. In this situation, I suspect VAR
would not have intervened and Attwell would have disallowed the
goal, albeit belatedly.
[/quote]
Just looked at the SKY highlights again, the AR puts his flag up
immediately that Carroll heads the ball and before it reaches
Shelvey.
The VAR puts the lines (the TV isn't in line) across and it
looks like it's Carrolls leaning shoulder in line with the Sheff
Utd defenders foot before he goes to head the ball.
Similar to the Harry Kane decision last season in the Carabao
Cup against Chelsea, where the camera is no where near being in
line and the judgement is taken from what looks like an
Euclidean distance diagram and could have gone either way.
(There is enough doubt and I'm still not entirely convinced that
either decision was correct)
Granted it was close and the AR probably shouldn't have put his
flag up but ultimately, the Sheff Utd players are aware of the
system and should have played to the whistle.
#Post#: 13633--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sheff Utd v Newcastle
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 6, 2019, 10:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I don't see how anyone could say last night wasn't fair.
Newcastle were onside rather than offside and thus correctly had
a goal allowed rather than disallowed.
>
> I prefer the Premier League's approach compared to UEFA where
assistants don't flag for about 5 minutes even with the most
obvious offsides.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree, the clubs were all told this is how it would work and
presumably agreed with it. If they haven't fed the "play to the
whistle" message to their coaches and players it is their own
fault.
The problem we have is that UEFA have gone to one extreme where
assistants aren't flagging until the attack ends even when the
player is a mile off. English assistants are flagging for even
the tightest of offsides, such as the two seen this week. There
needs to be a middle ground, UEFA assistants need to show more
confidence in their judgement, English assistants need to be a
bit less confident when it is very tight and keep the flag down
when it is tight.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page