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       #Post#: 4228--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: bruntyboy
       Date: January 17, 2019, 1:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
       >
       > [quote author=bruntyboy link=topic=100.msg4208#msg4208
       date=1547686979]
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=100.msg3901#msg3901
       date=1546964908]
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=100.msg3900#msg3900
       date=1546963685]
       > [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=100.msg3885#msg3885
       date=1546932316]
       > [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
       date=1546724402]
       >
       > Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up
       the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
       and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
       they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
       the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
       skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
       at the other.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
       official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
       required and appropriate.
       [/quote]
       Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
       this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
       I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
       farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
       any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
       the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
       whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
       only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
       quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
       --not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
       with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
       At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
       viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
       onfield official reviewed a decision.
       Is this going to be the normal procedure?
       [/quote]
       I'm pretty sure that offside was given against Vydra. Hence
       there was no need for the referee t o look at the monitor.
       I think the procedure in England will generally be that the
       referee does not look at the monitor but accepts the information
       from the VAR.
       I know there has been mixed views on this. Personally I
       generally think it helps for the referee to go and look - the
       radio commentators for the Palace V Grimsby game were quite
       confused by Atkinson suddenly pulling a red card out after he'd
       shown a yellow. They were asking if it was for dissent, etc.
       I think going to the monitor can help with the referee's
       credibility, particularly when it's the second minute of a game,
       and make it clearer what is happening (it would be different if
       the officials were mic'ed up).
       [/quote]
       How will this work if say the referee has already cautioned a
       couple of players for "orange" tackles but then another similar
       tackle occurs which is not seen by the referee but is seen by
       the reviewer (and which in his opinion is a red but would be
       deemed by the referee as orange and a caution under the way he
       has been refereeing the game)? Also presumably even if he looks
       at the monitor the referee is not allowed to show a yellow
       (which could also potentially be a second yellow for that
       player).
       [/quote]
       I'm not sure I fully understand the question - the VAR looks at
       everything anyway so if there were two similar tackles in the
       8th and 82nd minute of the match, one of which resulted in the
       referee showing a yellow card and the second of which the
       referee didn't show a yellow card, the VAR should theoretically
       either recommend a red card for both challenges if they think it
       was SFP or allow the referee's decision to stand in both cases
       if they don't think they were red card tackles.
       [/quote]
       If the referee has fully seen the first incident and is happy
       with YC why should he be overruled by VAR suggesting a RC
       (especially if the protocol in England is that the referee
       doesn't go and look at a monitor)? If there is a suggestion for
       RC then surely the onfield referee should be the final arbiter
       and must review it on the monitor.  As shown on here regularly
       one man's YC foul is another's orange is another's RC.
       #Post#: 4229--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: January 17, 2019, 2:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=100.msg4215#msg4215
       date=1547730972]
       > [quote author=bruntyboy link=topic=100.msg4208#msg4208
       date=1547686979]
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=100.msg3901#msg3901
       date=1546964908]
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=100.msg3900#msg3900
       date=1546963685]
       > [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=100.msg3885#msg3885
       date=1546932316]
       > [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
       date=1546724402]
       >
       > Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up
       the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
       and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
       they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
       the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
       skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
       at the other.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
       official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
       required and appropriate.
       [/quote]
       Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
       this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
       I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
       farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
       any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
       the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
       whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
       only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
       quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
       --not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
       with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
       At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
       viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
       onfield official reviewed a decision.
       Is this going to be the normal procedure?
       [/quote]
       I'm pretty sure that offside was given against Vydra. Hence
       there was no need for the referee t o look at the monitor.
       I think the procedure in England will generally be that the
       referee does not look at the monitor but accepts the information
       from the VAR.
       I know there has been mixed views on this. Personally I
       generally think it helps for the referee to go and look - the
       radio commentators for the Palace V Grimsby game were quite
       confused by Atkinson suddenly pulling a red card out after he'd
       shown a yellow. They were asking if it was for dissent, etc.
       I think going to the monitor can help with the referee's
       credibility, particularly when it's the second minute of a game,
       and make it clearer what is happening (it would be different if
       the officials were mic'ed up).
       [/quote]
       How will this work if say the referee has already cautioned a
       couple of players for "orange" tackles but then another similar
       tackle occurs which is not seen by the referee but is seen by
       the reviewer (and which in his opinion is a red but would be
       deemed by the referee as orange and a caution under the way he
       has been refereeing the game)? Also presumably even if he looks
       at the monitor the referee is not allowed to show a yellow
       (which could also potentially be a second yellow for that
       player).
       [/quote]
       I'm not sure I fully understand the question - the VAR looks at
       everything anyway so if there were two similar tackles in the
       8th and 82nd minute of the match, one of which resulted in the
       referee showing a yellow card and the second of which the
       referee didn't show a yellow card, the VAR should theoretically
       either recommend a red card for both challenges if they think it
       was SFP or allow the referee's decision to stand in both cases
       if they don't think they were red card tackles.
       [/quote]
       If the referee has fully seen the first incident and is happy
       with YC why should he be overruled by VAR suggesting a RC
       (especially if the protocol in England is that the referee
       doesn't go and look at a monitor)? If there is a suggestion for
       RC then surely the onfield referee should be the final arbiter
       and must review it on the monitor.  As shown on here regularly
       one man's YC foul is another's orange is another's RC.
       [/quote]
       I tend to agree with you that the referee should go and look at
       the monitor for subjective decisions.
       However, the PGMO would argue that the VAR should only be
       suggesting that a decision be changed if it was clearly wrong -
       hence if a tackle is in the 'orange' category I would suggest
       that a referee failing to show a red card should not be regarded
       as being clearly wrong.
       The decision by Martin Atkinson in the Crystal Palace V Grimsby
       game is more the type of challenge which would be upgraded from
       yellow to red, which I think the majority of people would agree
       with.
       #Post#: 4237--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Acme Thunderer
       Date: January 18, 2019, 8:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Times today reports that English football is proposing to change
       its rules to allow replays of VAR decisions to be shown on big
       screens when the new technology is introduced full time in the
       PL next season. At present clubs are prohibited from replaying
       contentious decisions at grounds for public order reasons, but
       there is an awareness of the need to improve the fan experience
       at matches. In the current PL, only Liverpool and Man Utd don't
       have big screens and there are no plans to make them compulsory.
       Instead VAR decisions would be communicated to fans at these
       grounds via the scoreboard or stadium announcer, but without an
       accompanying explanation. There are no plans either to set a
       time limit for making VAR decisions, although it was noted and
       criticised that it took almost two minutes for Anthony Taylor to
       disallow Bryson's 'goal' for Derby v Southampton on Wednesday.
       AT - at Selhurst Park, it is impossible for home fans in some of
       the 'posh' seats to see the sole stadium screen at the
       Whitehorse Lane end, and it could be a problem at grounds if
       some fans can see a VAR replay and others not.
       #Post#: 4305--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: January 21, 2019, 12:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       BT Sport commentator Darren Fletcher says that VAR will mean the
       end of AARs in the Champions League.
       #Post#: 4362--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: January 23, 2019, 7:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've also seen various reports that the VARs at Champions League
       games will actually be at the stadium rather than from a central
       base as happened in the World Cup and happens in the FA Cup.
       #Post#: 4363--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Hadrian
       Date: January 23, 2019, 7:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
  HTML http://refereeingworld.blogspot.com/2019/01/netherlands-referee-var-audio-footage.html
       Interesting clip and translation here of a VAR decision in the
       Netherlands.
       #Post#: 4365--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Acme Thunderer
       Date: January 23, 2019, 8:06 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm waiting for VAR Craig Pawson to controversially rule out a
       10th Burton goal this evening v Man City  ;D
       #Post#: 4376--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: January 23, 2019, 4:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
       >
       > I'm waiting for VAR Craig Pawson to controversially rule out a
       10th Burton goal this evening v Man City  ;D
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       First time tonight that English VAR wasn't out of Stockley Park,
       and rather they were in a van in the car park.
       #Post#: 4377--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
       Date: January 24, 2019, 1:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=100.msg4365#msg4365
       date=1548252367]
       > I'm waiting for VAR Craig Pawson to controversially rule out a
       10th Burton goal this evening v Man City  ;D
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       First time tonight that English VAR wasn't out of Stockley Park,
       and rather they were in a van in the car park.
       [/quote]
       And to be honest the game could've been officiated fom the car
       park!! Hardly anything for Friend to do other than get cold!!
       #Post#: 4418--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: January 26, 2019, 9:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Absolutely disgusting challenge in last nights game between H
       Berlin and Schalke in the 13th minute. Challenge ticked all the
       boxes for a red card: straight leg, over the top of the ball,
       studs up! In fairness to herr brych I think his view is blocked,
       and he gives a yellow!
       VAR is in use in Germany, why did the var not say to brych you
       need to looo at this challenge and decide whether it’s yellow or
       red and I guarAntee he would have changed his decision! What’s
       the point in having it if it isn’t going to be used for what’s
       its supposed to?
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