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#Post#: 3976--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: jad
Date: January 10, 2019, 9:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
bmb may be right, but it is interesting that in Italy there have
been more arguments over the use of VAR this season than last.
In my view the debate over the use of VAR is complicated by two
widespread fallacies:
1. That technology produces better decisions merely by the fact
of being technology. But with cricket and rugby union it is
becoming clear that technology introduces distortions of its
own, and it is likely to be same with football, especially when
incidents are reviewed in slow motion.
2. That for every incident there is one correct response. Yet
five minutes on this forum will reveal that qualified and
well-informed observers can reach diametrically opposed
conclusions even after reviewing an incident more often and in a
more relaxed environment than is ever going to be possible
during a high-profile football match.
If used properly, VAR should correct a few egregious errors and
resolve some borderline off-sides, but it would be unwise to
expect more than that. It certainly won't put an end to
controversies, but instead will shift the focus onto the use of
the system itself, as is also becoming clear on this forum. And
why should it be otherwise? I somehow can't imagine the day
when a pundit turns up in the TV studio and says: 'Right, Gary,
nothing to talk about today: VAR has resolved everything.'
#Post#: 3984--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: nemesis
Date: January 10, 2019, 3:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: jad link ---
>
> bmb may be right, but it is interesting that in Italy there
have been more arguments over the use of VAR this season than
last. In my view the debate over the use of VAR is complicated
by two widespread fallacies:
> 1. That technology produces better decisions merely by the
fact of being technology. But with cricket and rugby union it
is becoming clear that technology introduces distortions of its
own, and it is likely to be same with football, especially when
incidents are reviewed in slow motion.
> 2. That for every incident there is one correct response.
Yet five minutes on this forum will reveal that qualified and
well-informed observers can reach diametrically opposed
conclusions even after reviewing an incident more often and in a
more relaxed environment than is ever going to be possible
during a high-profile football match.
>
> If used properly, VAR should correct a few egregious errors
and resolve some borderline off-sides, but it would be unwise to
expect more than that. It certainly won't put an end to
controversies, but instead will shift the focus onto the use of
the system itself, as is also becoming clear on this forum. And
why should it be otherwise? I somehow can't imagine the day
when a pundit turns up in the TV studio and says: 'Right, Gary,
nothing to talk about today: VAR has resolved everything.'
>
--- End Quote ---
Errors don't get any more egregious than that one at Fulham and
that was not corrected, therefore it follows that it was not
being used properly. It clearly needs better people reviewing
it, not the mates of those causing the egregiousness.
#Post#: 3985--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: bmb
Date: January 10, 2019, 4:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: jad link ---
>
> but it is interesting that in Italy there have been more
arguments over the use of VAR this season than last.
>
--- End Quote ---
I do wonder how much of that stems from this seemingly
widespread belief by fans/managers/players/media in particular
that VAR is the holy grail to ensure that 100% of referee
decisions are correct in every game. Something that most on here
will agree on is an impossible to obtain figure yet anyone who
has never picked up a whistle seems to believe is achievable!
#Post#: 4085--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: flipmode
Date: January 13, 2019, 6:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
> I watch a fair few games in the Saudi league where VAR has
already been used for a couple of seasons & they seem to have it
in a good routine, the crowd know if it's being consulted either
by monitor, which is very obvious, or just over the comms &
don't seem to bat an eye over it or get confused. We will reach
that stage but it takes time to get used to and for it to be
accepted as the norm.
>
--- End Quote ---
They should send a delegation to Australia as the referees in
the A-League still are able to mess it up. You make a very good
point bmb, about the clarity of the decisions and VAR being
referenced. I think that's what is such an issue out here that
some (not all) of the referees don't convey the fact that they
are reviewing VAR clearly enough. It also doesn't help that
replays are shown on screen in the stadiums, which often adds to
the drama. ;D
#Post#: 4104--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: jad
Date: January 14, 2019, 10:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=jad link=topic=100.msg3976#msg3976
date=1547135884]
> but it is interesting that in Italy there have been more
arguments over the use of VAR this season than last.
>
--- End Quote ---
I do wonder how much of that stems from this seemingly
widespread belief by fans/managers/players/media in particular
that VAR is the holy grail to ensure that 100% of referee
decisions are correct in every game. Something that most on here
will agree on is an impossible to obtain figure yet anyone who
has never picked up a whistle seems to believe is achievable!
[/quote]
I am sure that's right, though it seems to be made worse by
commentators not knowing or understanding the protocols. Most
complaints in Italy have been about VAR not being used when
commentators thought it should have been. But there is another
point: I suspect that there is starting to be an expectation
that when a referee chooses or is invited to review an incident
on the pitch-side monitor, this will automatically result in the
decision being changed.
#Post#: 4116--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: bmb
Date: January 14, 2019, 11:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: jad link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=100.msg3985#msg3985
date=1547158518]
> [quote author=jad link=topic=100.msg3976#msg3976
date=1547135884]
> but it is interesting that in Italy there have been more
arguments over the use of VAR this season than last.
>
--- End Quote ---
I do wonder how much of that stems from this seemingly
widespread belief by fans/managers/players/media in particular
that VAR is the holy grail to ensure that 100% of referee
decisions are correct in every game. Something that most on here
will agree on is an impossible to obtain figure yet anyone who
has never picked up a whistle seems to believe is achievable!
[/quote]
I am sure that's right, though it seems to be made worse by
commentators not knowing or understanding the protocols. Most
complaints in Italy have been about VAR not being used when
commentators thought it should have been. But there is another
point: I suspect that there is starting to be an expectation
that when a referee chooses or is invited to review an incident
on the pitch-side monitor, this will automatically result in the
decision being changed.
[/quote]
Ah yes I forgot about the media and their lack of knowledge on
the protocols, it's about on par with their knowledge of the
laws of the game i.e. non-existent in most cases!!
#Post#: 4119--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: January 14, 2019, 12:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Dermot Gallagher said on Sky earlier that the lines for offsides
are calibrated based on the feet of the players and don't take
into account other parts of the body.
If so, this is surely a ludicrous and completely inaccurate way
of implementing the system. FIFA used a 3D system during the
World Cup - why is it not in place here?
Gallagher was quite dismissive about criticisms saying that
people had wanted VAR so we couldn't criticise it now it was
here but it does feel to me like the necessary investment hasn't
been made to ensure the system is working as it should do.
#Post#: 4122--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: January 14, 2019, 1:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> Dermot Gallagher said on Sky earlier that the lines for
offsides are calibrated based on the feet of the players and
don't take into account other parts of the body.
>
> If so, this is surely a ludicrous and completely inaccurate
way of implementing the system. FIFA used a 3D system during the
World Cup - why is it not in place here?
>
> Gallagher was quite dismissive about criticisms saying that
people had wanted VAR so we couldn't criticise it now it was
here but it does feel to me like the necessary investment hasn't
been made to ensure the system is working as it should do.
>
--- End Quote ---
Should he not have said that VAR was media driven and it was
they that wanted something else to play with so that they could
carp on even more about the officials?
It saddens me that the match between Spurs and Chelsea was a
good game to watch for the neutral and the officials performed
really well and enhanced the game as a spectacle, however, the
talking point ever since has been VAR.
#Post#: 4190--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: dave26
Date: January 16, 2019, 2:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well I don’t think the officials have covered themselves in
glory tonight in the Southampton vs Derby match VAR call in the
40th minute when Derby scored , you are talking about the
slightest of margins i thought it was supposed to be for clear
and obvious errors or am I missing something
#Post#: 4196--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 16, 2019, 3:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This keeps coming up. Clear and obvious does NOT apply for
offsides, it relates to when the decision could be in the
opinion of the referee.
Offside is black and white, either the player was on or off,
there is no opinion involved.
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