URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       RateTheRef
  HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: General Discussion
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 3862--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: BabyRef
       Date: January 6, 2019, 3:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Couldn't ref stand in front of the ball like they do for a free
       kick?
       #Post#: 3863--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Carter
       Date: January 6, 2019, 3:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=100.msg3805#msg3805
       date=1546719557]
       > It seems that the use of VAR in England will more commonly
       involve the referee simply accepting the information from the
       VAR rather than going to the screen as we saw at the World Cup.
       >
       > I know this has raised debate on here previously.
       >
       > Personally I generally prefer the process of the referee going
       to the monitor, partly because it is more standardised across
       the world. I also think it helps preserve the referee's
       authority if they are the one making the decision and prevents
       cases of a referee making a decision they wouldn't actually have
       given with the benefit of replays, whilst also making it clearer
       to the crowd/viewers who then know to expect the decision to be
       changed rather than a yellow card suddenly becoming a red card
       as happened at Palace today for instance. I can understand the
       arguments for not incorporating this element however.
       >
       > I still think the end objective has to be to mic the officials
       up so everyone can hear what is being discussed to help fill the
       time waiting for the decision.
       >
       > I presume UEFA will follow a policy more closely related to
       that which we saw in the World Cup when VAR is introduced in the
       Champions League next month.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Biased, yes perhaps, but I applaud the decision of Martin
       Atkinson, via the VAR, to change from a yellow card to a red in
       the second minute of the Palace v Grimsby game. OK, a second
       rate game but the decision to change needed to be made and was
       perfectly correct, as TV replays showed. If only VAR had been
       available to Taylor when Kompany launched himself into a very
       similar tackle in the top-of-the PL game at City the other day.
       [/quote]
       I would more worry that a top select group referee failed to see
       a dangerous tackle, without referall.
       Im also not sure Atkinson overturned it as he didnt go t the
       camera position
       #Post#: 3881--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: nemesis
       Date: January 7, 2019, 12:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The whole concept is doomed to failure if they allow the VAR to
       be operated by whichever imbecile didn't have the guts to
       over-rule Taylor at Fulham.
       Absolute farce.
       #Post#: 3882--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: January 7, 2019, 12:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: nemesis link ---
       >
       >
       > Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up
       the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
       and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
       they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
       the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
       skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
       at the other.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       An interesting point - I wonder if we will eventually see
       specialist VARs like specialist assistant referees?
       #Post#: 3885--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: QuoCob
       Date: January 8, 2019, 1:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: nemesis link ---
       >
       >
       > Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up
       the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
       and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
       they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
       the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
       skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
       at the other.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
       official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
       required and appropriate.
       #Post#: 3897--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: nemesis
       Date: January 8, 2019, 9:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: RCG link ---
       >
       > We are back to was it a clear and obvious error? From TV you
       can only judge what contact has been seen. Would be nice to
       think they could suggest exaggerated movement but i doubt it.
       Could we 100% say it was not a penalty?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       No, far more like 1000%  !
       #Post#: 3900--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: January 8, 2019, 10:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
       >
       > [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
       date=1546724402]
       >
       > Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up
       the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
       and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
       they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
       the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
       skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
       at the other.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
       official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
       required and appropriate.
       [/quote]
       Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
       this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
       I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
       farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
       any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
       the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
       whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
       only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
       quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
       --not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
       with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
       At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
       viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
       onfield official reviewed a decision.
       Is this going to be the normal procedure?
       #Post#: 3901--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: January 8, 2019, 10:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=100.msg3885#msg3885
       date=1546932316]
       > [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
       date=1546724402]
       >
       > Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up
       the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
       and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
       they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
       the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
       skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
       at the other.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
       official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
       required and appropriate.
       [/quote]
       Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
       this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
       I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
       farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
       any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
       the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
       whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
       only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
       quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
       --not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
       with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
       At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
       viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
       onfield official reviewed a decision.
       Is this going to be the normal procedure?
       [/quote]
       I'm pretty sure that offside was given against Vydra. Hence
       there was no need for the referee t o look at the monitor.
       I think the procedure in England will generally be that the
       referee does not look at the monitor but accepts the information
       from the VAR.
       I know there has been mixed views on this. Personally I
       generally think it helps for the referee to go and look - the
       radio commentators for the Palace V Grimsby game were quite
       confused by Atkinson suddenly pulling a red card out after he'd
       shown a yellow. They were asking if it was for dissent, etc.
       I think going to the monitor can help with the referee's
       credibility, particularly when it's the second minute of a game,
       and make it clearer what is happening (it would be different if
       the officials were mic'ed up).
       #Post#: 3908--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: Ashington46
       Date: January 8, 2019, 12:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=100.msg3900#msg3900
       date=1546963685]
       > [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=100.msg3885#msg3885
       date=1546932316]
       > [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
       date=1546724402]
       >
       > Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up
       the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
       and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
       they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
       the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
       skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
       at the other.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
       official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
       required and appropriate.
       [/quote]
       Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
       this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
       I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
       farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
       any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
       the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
       whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
       only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
       quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
       --not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
       with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
       At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
       viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
       onfield official reviewed a decision.
       Is this going to be the normal procedure?
       [/quote]
       I'm pretty sure that offside was given against Vydra. Hence
       there was no need for the referee t o look at the monitor.
       I think the procedure in England will generally be that the
       referee does not look at the monitor but accepts the information
       from the VAR.
       I know there has been mixed views on this. Personally I
       generally think it helps for the referee to go and look - the
       radio commentators for the Palace V Grimsby game were quite
       confused by Atkinson suddenly pulling a red card out after he'd
       shown a yellow. They were asking if it was for dissent, etc.
       I think going to the monitor can help with the referee's
       credibility, particularly when it's the second minute of a game,
       and make it clearer what is happening (it would be different if
       the officials were mic'ed up).
       [/quote]
       Interestingly, Simon Hooper was quite precise about where the
       resulting free kick should be taken and it was outside the area
       where Sam Vokes had been ruled offside which caused even more
       confusion to those of us in attendance.
       #Post#: 3913--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The VAR thread
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: January 8, 2019, 2:21 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If they are not going to go to the monitor to do a review
       themselves then they need to signal very clearly that they are
       taking advice from the VAR over the headset. Clear enough for it
       to be recognised right back as far as row z & beyond! I know the
       majority of us hate the over dramatic signalling that can occur
       but perhaps this is a situation where it needs that type of
       signal.  If fans/managers & players see a very clear signal then
       they will at least know VAR is being consulted, even if they
       don't understand why & will know a decision may be overturned. I
       do agree with Readingfan that it seems to generally help if the
       referee goes to the monitor, not least because at least everyone
       knows there is a degree of VAR intervention.
       VAR is still new though and the kinks are gradually being ironed
       out, in theory.  It's not something we are used to yet, whatever
       our role in the game. As it is used more widely it will become
       more understood, pauses will be recognised better etc.  Our
       referees will also settle into a routine that works better with
       it, they are still also finding their feet with it.  Give it a
       couple of years and we will all wonder what the early fuss was
       about.  I watch a fair few games in the Saudi league where VAR
       has already been used for a couple of seasons & they seem to
       have it in a good routine, the crowd know if it's being
       consulted either by monitor, which is very obvious, or just over
       the comms & don't seem to bat an eye over it or get confused. We
       will reach that stage but it takes time to get used to and for
       it to be accepted as the norm.
       *****************************************************
       Page 5 of 112
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page