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#Post#: 3862--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: BabyRef
Date: January 6, 2019, 3:10 pm
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Couldn't ref stand in front of the ball like they do for a free
kick?
#Post#: 3863--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: Carter
Date: January 6, 2019, 3:32 pm
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--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=100.msg3805#msg3805
date=1546719557]
> It seems that the use of VAR in England will more commonly
involve the referee simply accepting the information from the
VAR rather than going to the screen as we saw at the World Cup.
>
> I know this has raised debate on here previously.
>
> Personally I generally prefer the process of the referee going
to the monitor, partly because it is more standardised across
the world. I also think it helps preserve the referee's
authority if they are the one making the decision and prevents
cases of a referee making a decision they wouldn't actually have
given with the benefit of replays, whilst also making it clearer
to the crowd/viewers who then know to expect the decision to be
changed rather than a yellow card suddenly becoming a red card
as happened at Palace today for instance. I can understand the
arguments for not incorporating this element however.
>
> I still think the end objective has to be to mic the officials
up so everyone can hear what is being discussed to help fill the
time waiting for the decision.
>
> I presume UEFA will follow a policy more closely related to
that which we saw in the World Cup when VAR is introduced in the
Champions League next month.
>
--- End Quote ---
Biased, yes perhaps, but I applaud the decision of Martin
Atkinson, via the VAR, to change from a yellow card to a red in
the second minute of the Palace v Grimsby game. OK, a second
rate game but the decision to change needed to be made and was
perfectly correct, as TV replays showed. If only VAR had been
available to Taylor when Kompany launched himself into a very
similar tackle in the top-of-the PL game at City the other day.
[/quote]
I would more worry that a top select group referee failed to see
a dangerous tackle, without referall.
Im also not sure Atkinson overturned it as he didnt go t the
camera position
#Post#: 3881--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: nemesis
Date: January 7, 2019, 12:33 pm
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The whole concept is doomed to failure if they allow the VAR to
be operated by whichever imbecile didn't have the guts to
over-rule Taylor at Fulham.
Absolute farce.
#Post#: 3882--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: January 7, 2019, 12:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
>
> Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees? Opening up
the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
at the other.
>
--- End Quote ---
An interesting point - I wonder if we will eventually see
specialist VARs like specialist assistant referees?
#Post#: 3885--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: January 8, 2019, 1:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
>
> Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees? Opening up
the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
at the other.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
required and appropriate.
#Post#: 3897--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: nemesis
Date: January 8, 2019, 9:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RCG link ---
>
> We are back to was it a clear and obvious error? From TV you
can only judge what contact has been seen. Would be nice to
think they could suggest exaggerated movement but i doubt it.
Could we 100% say it was not a penalty?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, far more like 1000% !
#Post#: 3900--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: January 8, 2019, 10:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
date=1546724402]
>
> Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees? Opening up
the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
at the other.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
required and appropriate.
[/quote]
Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
--not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
onfield official reviewed a decision.
Is this going to be the normal procedure?
#Post#: 3901--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: January 8, 2019, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=100.msg3885#msg3885
date=1546932316]
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
date=1546724402]
>
> Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees? Opening up
the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
at the other.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
required and appropriate.
[/quote]
Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
--not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
onfield official reviewed a decision.
Is this going to be the normal procedure?
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that offside was given against Vydra. Hence
there was no need for the referee t o look at the monitor.
I think the procedure in England will generally be that the
referee does not look at the monitor but accepts the information
from the VAR.
I know there has been mixed views on this. Personally I
generally think it helps for the referee to go and look - the
radio commentators for the Palace V Grimsby game were quite
confused by Atkinson suddenly pulling a red card out after he'd
shown a yellow. They were asking if it was for dissent, etc.
I think going to the monitor can help with the referee's
credibility, particularly when it's the second minute of a game,
and make it clearer what is happening (it would be different if
the officials were mic'ed up).
#Post#: 3908--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: January 8, 2019, 12:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=100.msg3900#msg3900
date=1546963685]
> [quote author=QuoCob link=topic=100.msg3885#msg3885
date=1546932316]
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=100.msg3807#msg3807
date=1546724402]
>
> Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees? Opening up
the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels
and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as
they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source
the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different
skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best
at the other.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field
official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is
required and appropriate.
[/quote]
Am I correct in thinking that none of the VAR decisions made
this weekend were actually reviewed by the onfield official?
I was at Burnley on Saturday and the whole situation was
farcical. Those of us who actually paid to go to the game had
any idea what was happening because Simon Hooper just stood in
the penalty area and then, after about 90 seconds, he blew the
whistle which Vydra thought was the signal to take the penalty
only then to be stopped in his tracks by Hooper's raised arm,
quickly followed by the AR's raised flag and offside was given
--not against Vydra but against Sam Vokes who had not interfered
with play at all ---the ball having gone way over his head.
At no point did Simon Hooper go to look at the incident and, on
viewing the other incidents, I don't think that any other
onfield official reviewed a decision.
Is this going to be the normal procedure?
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that offside was given against Vydra. Hence
there was no need for the referee t o look at the monitor.
I think the procedure in England will generally be that the
referee does not look at the monitor but accepts the information
from the VAR.
I know there has been mixed views on this. Personally I
generally think it helps for the referee to go and look - the
radio commentators for the Palace V Grimsby game were quite
confused by Atkinson suddenly pulling a red card out after he'd
shown a yellow. They were asking if it was for dissent, etc.
I think going to the monitor can help with the referee's
credibility, particularly when it's the second minute of a game,
and make it clearer what is happening (it would be different if
the officials were mic'ed up).
[/quote]
Interestingly, Simon Hooper was quite precise about where the
resulting free kick should be taken and it was outside the area
where Sam Vokes had been ruled offside which caused even more
confusion to those of us in attendance.
#Post#: 3913--------------------------------------------------
Re: The VAR thread
DIR By: bmb
Date: January 8, 2019, 2:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If they are not going to go to the monitor to do a review
themselves then they need to signal very clearly that they are
taking advice from the VAR over the headset. Clear enough for it
to be recognised right back as far as row z & beyond! I know the
majority of us hate the over dramatic signalling that can occur
but perhaps this is a situation where it needs that type of
signal. If fans/managers & players see a very clear signal then
they will at least know VAR is being consulted, even if they
don't understand why & will know a decision may be overturned. I
do agree with Readingfan that it seems to generally help if the
referee goes to the monitor, not least because at least everyone
knows there is a degree of VAR intervention.
VAR is still new though and the kinks are gradually being ironed
out, in theory. It's not something we are used to yet, whatever
our role in the game. As it is used more widely it will become
more understood, pauses will be recognised better etc. Our
referees will also settle into a routine that works better with
it, they are still also finding their feet with it. Give it a
couple of years and we will all wonder what the early fuss was
about. I watch a fair few games in the Saudi league where VAR
has already been used for a couple of seasons & they seem to
have it in a good routine, the crowd know if it's being
consulted either by monitor, which is very obvious, or just over
the comms & don't seem to bat an eye over it or get confused. We
will reach that stage but it takes time to get used to and for
it to be accepted as the norm.
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