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       #Post#: 1278--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: October 10, 2015, 10:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hanging out in Swan Valley ID with my dad.
       This wouldn't have ever been possible if I hadn't done the work
       of confronting childhood trauma many years ago. My youngest
       daughter is going through this right now, she called me this
       week asking how she should go about divorcing her mother, in her
       mind is a cadre of phantoms put there through fear and
       manipulation by her mother, the reason she even knows they are
       there is because the dual in her has two sides, mother/father,
       her experience with me (while challenging to be sure) was
       nothing like her experience with her mother so she sees a
       difference, yet lives the dual. This is a great advantage in
       seeing through her dream.
       My advice to her; you don't need to divorce your mother, see
       thru the lies in yourself and the stories you've created around
       them and the mother you need to divorce will disappear like a
       ghost in the light of day.
       When you're living in the dream it seems options are few, in the
       world but not of it? Options everywhere!
       #Post#: 1283--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: October 14, 2015, 1:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The non-dualists new religion...
       #Post#: 1442--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: November 1, 2015, 8:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I spent 6 hours yesterday standing in a large river in Idaho,
       I'm not the first to see metaphors for life experience in fly
       fishing but this one feels fresh.
       For roughly 5 hours and 45 minutes I was just standing,
       hypnotized by the various patterns created by the movement of
       the water, the way wind shifted across those patterns creating
       new  and equally rhythmic motifs. The metronome of my arm
       lifting line off the water, rolling loops above my head and
       replacing it several yards upstream only to watch it return to
       the place I just picked it from the water moments ago.
       Over and over the metronome, hour after hour.... Subtle changes
       becoming major shifts in experience as "I" fades and experience
       drops in, the birth of hundreds of thousands of Mayflies for a
       time like an upward snowstorm. This activating a primal need in
       the denizens of the water, who until now seemed nonexistent on
       this chilly autumn day and the subsequent frenzy creating
       anomalies all over the surface of the water, shifting my focus
       from lazy daydream into seeker mode. Awareness hyper vigilant
       now, looking for the right movement in the right riffle, my lazy
       loops tightening up with excitement and intent, accuracy and
       delicacy of movement now at a premium.
       The cast comes off as planned, the impostor landing a few inches
       upstream of the feeding torpedo, the quick strike coupled with
       the flick of a wrist to set the connection between me and god.
       This is where it can get a bit tricky as the desire to have,
       hold and own the ineffable rolls over my being, at another stage
       I would have been overcome by this desire, yanked too soon and
       too hard, broken the gossamer thread connecting me with the
       divine. Zing goes the reel as the real thing heads for faster
       deeper water, patiently I take in every shudder and thrust,
       slowly I begin to wind, assessing it's next possible run keeping
       the line taught but not tight, wanting to maintain this
       interaction as long as possible... Which is so easy now.
       Landing this fish means nothing, hooking this fish also nothing,
       standing in the water casting is enough, it is all one can do,
       if source shows its fierce, relentless, love filled essence I am
       pleased, if not I am pleased, I know the fish are there even
       when I can't see them, they are always there, right under my
       feet. It is enough life can be like this, life is this.
       #Post#: 1482--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: November 7, 2015, 11:41 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Life just seems to be one big orgasm for me, this week has been
       amazing, I lost my car keys fishing in Idaho, got home and awoke
       to a flooding basement which then led to this which happened a
       couple of hours ago... Btw, these are 10 to 15 pound wild
       turkeys, flying 5 to 10 feet over my head, they are VERY
       skittish, somehow I wandered into a hollow without them seeing
       me which is unheard of if you know anything about the keen
       eyesight of wild turkeys...
  HTML https://youtu.be/ZciIyZIYj4A
       #Post#: 1530--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: November 11, 2015, 10:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've been so mind absorbed since forever that the last 10 months
       of watching it instead of being it have been a revelation in
       many ways, todays revelation is that my body is ****ed at being
       neglected for so long and is acting out in any way possible to
       get my attention. Consequently, because I now have attention to
       give it, I am placing a large focus on treating it with more
       respect, learning what it needs to be healthy and following
       through on paying more attention to it (I've just been giving it
       lip service up till now). I'm focusing time and money on it's
       needs before it has to start screaming for that attention
       again....
       #Post#: 1643--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: November 27, 2015, 12:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Entering Understanding between Everything and Nothing and how
       the point of entry colors one's perception of Enlightenment.
       Part 1   Everything
       Nisargadatta's quote "Love tells me I am everything, wisdom
       tells me I am nothing, between these two I reside" has some
       interesting implications.
       I think one must come through the gate-less gate somewhere on
       this imaginary line between Love/Everything and Wisdom/Nothing
       (L/E and W/N), Centered between these points lies total
       Beingness or Enlightenment, Jed's Truth Realization and where
       one enters awakening from on that continuum will color one's
       perception and experience of the Understanding. This is why no
       two enlightenments are exactly the same and no one understanding
       is ever an abiding complete understanding. (Fig 1. showing Maya
       (the world) and the exit to death of "I" while still being an
       entity or the gate-less gate along with what I'm trying to
       illustrate. Fig 2 showing red box area from fig 1 and indicates
       the area in subsequent illustrations.)
       This mirrors the Uncertainty Principle from quantum mechanics,
       where you can know an objects speed and you can know it's
       position but not at the same time. The more clarity you have on
       one, the less clear you become on the other. similarly one
       cannot be nothing and everything simultaneously, there is
       invariably needs be an oscillation in one's being to hold these
       seemingly opposing concepts while awareness continually shifts
       from one to the other and back. I suppose awareness is
       modulating the switch over, governing when one begins to move
       too far in one direction (W/N) or the other (L/E), like changing
       the sail on a sailboat, tacking back and forth to keep things
       going straight or "true" over the long haul.
       Where one enters the understanding on this line will dictate how
       they maneuver within Understanding and which direction they
       follow and how long they tack in that direction to "center" the
       ship. If the awakening does not come as a non-dual understanding
       there will be an eventual dissolution and breakdown of this
       singular part of a dualistic understanding.
       I have had (please excuse the personal pronouns, it's just too
       difficult to communicate around them) two separate incidents
       that I'll use to explore this idea further, in the first at age
       30 I entered the gate on the L/E side of NM's matrix and is as
       follows...
       I am everything.
       My first realization and awakening lead me to an amazing self
       discovery, I am everything. I was raised with a lot of shame and
       humiliation, my first "awakening" at 30 came through the
       standard first moment of self awareness with a subsequent ego
       implosion, because I was coming from a lack of esteem, what I
       needed most at that point was to know I was loved. This Love
       exactly countered the feeling of worthlessness that I had lived
       in and righted the ship for a time. Using another quantum
       metaphor, I needed to be "something" after feeling like nothing
       for so long,  I became a particle for awhile, being a wave (or
       W/N, the other half of NM's matrix) would come later.
       Entering awakening nearer the "Love - I am everything" end of
       the spectrum was what was needed at that point. Being filled
       with Love of self for the first time since early childhood
       allowed me to tap my human potential and explore freely what it
       meant to be a me. Excruciatingly it also was only half of the
       equation, a sailing ship that could only tack in one direction
       and consequently was going to eventually hit land, hard and
       unexpectedly. The blow would lead to another deep realization, a
       monumental ego implosion and a new understanding. (fig 3)
       I am Nothing.
       <continued next post>
       #Post#: 1644--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: November 30, 2015, 3:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Ok, so yeah, I know that all these words I'm writing are just
       fluff, something to do with my day. Occasionally my mind
       stumbles on an idea and I like to try and see it through to some
       form of concept (yes these are all concepts and no concept blah
       blah blah..) Interestingly Ramana, Jed, Byron Katie, Eckhart
       Tolle, Adya, Nisargadatta... They all said or wrote things,
       these things that they said and wrote are "concepts" even if the
       concept they wrote about was that concepts are not truth, still
       a concept.
       So I'm just adding my two cents to that pile of untruth, maybe
       to some it may feel "truthish". Whatever, I do know that I enjoy
       exploring and thats enough for me, onward.
       Part 2   Nothing
       So, let's go backwards a bit, the reason for this post is a
       question that arose in my mind; Why is there such divided
       opinion and subsequent argument about what Enlightenment is and
       seemingly continual analysis about who is and who isn't
       enlightened? In our own little group here we have widely varying
       experiences of moving through the G-less Gate and subsequent
       differences of beingness after this benchmark. This is what I'm
       exploring here, the seeming dichotomy of experience between
       travelers on the same road.
       After a little exploration of my own experience I've come to a
       semi-conclusion: Where I entered the G-less Gate from dictated
       my experience thereafter. Whichever side of Nisargadatta's
       Everything/Nothing matrix I came in on was going to dictate the
       trajectory of my subsequent path. In other words I was not
       non-dual, I was holding fast to what I sensed as truth, based on
       my experience of the infinite which then dictated where on
       Nisargadatta's line I entered.
       For me that was the "I am - Love/Everything" side of the matrix.
       This knowledge was so clear and so profound that I would have
       given my life before denouncing it as "wrong" or incomplete.
       This sureness, of the seemingly complete knowledge, is what sets
       up the arguments that seem to permeate any discussion of
       enlightenment, the entrenchment of belief, the staking of a
       claim, in my case the; I am God, Love is all spiritual claimant.
       It's a beautiful ride but only one half of the non-dual picture
       and consequently still dual.
       This position, once taken, ensures an eventual shipwreck of the
       self on one of the shorelines (L/E in my case Fig 3) because it
       eliminates ones ability to tack back toward the center, it is
       dual in nature because it is only one half of Nisargadatta's
       matrix which, while seemingly a dual ideology, is actually
       non-dual because, done correctly, one resides not just on one
       side of the matrix but is oscillating, holding the paradox of
       Everything and Nothing simultaneously,  close as can be to
       center, between the two sides which encompass the whole. (Fig 8
       shows the crash and subsequent re-entry on the opposite
       (nothingness) side of NM's matrix. Fig 5. shows where I entered
       the g-less gate the second time around, on the Nothingness side
       after the crash in Fig 3 and 20 years after my initial "dual"
       awakening.)
       Non-dual in this regard is like the circle that encompasses yin
       and yang only in this situation it holds Everything and Nothing
       as One, no delineation of one or the other. Unfortunately, how
       many spiritual aspirants and seekers know this at the time of
       awakening? Very few I'm guessing and depending upon where they
       entered NM’s matrix can be somewhat confused, this is where
       integration of the new way of existence is critical, without
       this understanding the new awakener is bound to go back to
       sleep.
       Most won't make it, this is that non-abiding awakening that many
       speak of, lots of seekers have false starts where they just
       can't get the momentum necessary for awakening to take hold and
       it's just a matter of time before the inevitable return to Maya
       occurs. I think this is because they do not yet realize they are
       only living one half, either the I am Everything half or the I
       am Nothing half.
       Only those capable of holding the paradox of Everything and
       Nothing, constantly oscillating between the two because it is
       impossible to hold them both at once, like the quantum
       Wave/Particle dilemma that has kept physicists up at night for
       decades, it’ just not humanly possible to grasp both at once.
       Therefore M. Sommerset Maughm’s The Razor’s Edge seems highly
       appropriate here, it’s like being on a Razors Edge all the time
       when one holds Everything and Nothing simultaneously, nothing
       else matters, thought is slave to beingness and awareness which
       is only focused on the center between those two poles. A very
       fine line indeed and the more integrated one ism the quicker
       they tack back toward the line after crossing it with the last
       tack (Fig 5 is shows the entrance and timeline of my second
       awakening 20 years after the first and illustrates tacking back
       and forth between Everything and Nothing and the abiding nature
       of this non-dual Understanding)
       Next post:
       Why does it sometimes seem we are at odds with others (or they
       are at odds with us) who are seemingly on the same pathless
       path?
       #Post#: 1645--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: rgardner
       Date: November 30, 2015, 4:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       All I can say is:
       My Goshedness!  :o
       You capture my flow.
       I am at odds with no one.
       #Post#: 1646--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: November 30, 2015, 5:16 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Plato link ---
       >
       >
       > Next post:
       > Why does it sometimes seem we are at odds with others (or they
       are at odds with us) who are seemingly on the same pathless
       path?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Ok, it's probably stated better like that Ray  :D   I'll explore
       that, along with nifty charts and graphs in my next post  ;D :o
       ::)
       #Post#: 1649--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Post Apocalypse Thread - Random thoughts on life after (my)
       death
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: December 1, 2015, 1:37 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Why is there so much discord between people seemingly on the
       same journey? One thought is this; as people enter the G-less
       Gate somewhere on Nisargadatta's matrix, this point of entry or
       flash of truth from the Infinite is held as an object or concept
       by a person and then conceptualized and defended as a belief,
       for example two people could be awakened with exactly opposing
       ideologies, I am Nothing or I am Everything, how could either
       expect to understand the others position?. So in essence, the
       non-dual flash of truth is incorporated into a dual spiritual
       ego and defended as a truth, unfortunately it is only a half
       truth.
       It's easy to see why this happens, when a person experiences the
       infinite, everything else pales in comparison, nothing "normal"
       retains the value it once had to that person. A problem as it
       pertains to enlightenment then tends to occur, it's more than
       likely "Specialness" with it's intoxicating brand of ego will
       take over and start building a spiritual, egocentric edifice for
       the self to reside in. It's what I am doing now, trying to
       strengthen my personality's hold on the infinite, to somehow
       understand the un-understandable. It happens here because "I"
       have a bent that way, The "I" enjoys this type of thing, luckily
       and finally, there is also Understanding here, anything an "I"
       does means nothing in the scheme of the infinite, there is no
       "i" and "I" knows it. more paradox. I also know that others
       doing this same thing had an impact on my journey... more and
       more paradox. Valuable but not important.
       Anyway, I digress. The point is that "Some One" is holding "Some
       Thing" as truth, the only way this can happen is is in a dual
       construct, in Maya, because there is no "One" to hold any no
       "Thing" except in a dream. Justin has expressed this quite well
       in many of his posts here. And yet, here I am typing these
       words... Paradox, paradox, paradox. So, since I am typing these
       words it seems relevant to move forward with the thought "why
       all the discord?"
       I initially entered in the "I am Everything / Love" side of NM's
       matrix and 20 years later entered on the other side, "I am
       nothing / Wisdom" side, these two things are diametrically
       opposed to one another, so if my prior self and my later self
       were to have a conversation about enlightenment we would have to
       disagree and very strongly with one another, this is the cause
       for much of the strife and hostility seen in and around the
       spiritual game, every non-dual weblog or forum that has more
       than one voice will show evidence of the "you don't understand"
       conversation that permeates non-dual conversation, our very
       small group included.
       Fig 6 is a graph of various possible entrances to the the G-less
       G and corresponding trajectories, these could emulate a group of
       people in a forum, all on the path but each entering from a
       different vantage point and subsequent trajectories either
       paralleling or diverging which would indicate consensus (similar
       trajectories on one side of the matrix) or vehement
       non-consensus (divergent and diverging trajectories on the
       opposite side of NM's matrix).
       Fig 7 Shows the distance from consensus between all the
       different experience's on the same path, obviously diverging
       viewpoints on opposite sides of the matrix will find it most
       difficult to find consensus (shown by the further distance
       apart). What they all have in common is that until they embrace
       the opposing side of the argument they will be caught in the
       dual and eventually crash into the shoreline of the side they
       hold as total truth. Like the particle and wave from earlier,
       both are true but only part of the whole, the "One" that is "not
       two". It's like clinging to the yin and ignoring the yang.
       This brings us back to the razors edge, holding opposing views
       at the same time, impossible, like holding a hot potato, the
       only way to hold it is to not hold it, paradox. Similarly
       holding Love/Everything and Wisdom/Nothing is the same, to hold
       one denotes a position, an opinion which is false (or only a
       half truth). One does not hold at all, they must be juggled.
       holding one when it serves the purpose at hand and releasing it
       as soon as possible, holding the other as needed and then
       shifting sails back the other way, tacking back toward the
       center. Holding of either position is doomed to fall into ego,
       back to Maya.
       Holding a position is what instigates discord, here and
       elsewhere. Even if that position is one half of Nisargadatta's
       truth, Love/Wisdom, Everything/Nothing, one must juggle both to
       be enlightened, truth realized, while juggling there is no one
       left to argue, nothing is ever held while juggling, consequently
       there is no fixed position to argue from while the oscillation
       is happening. This is why the enlightened seem aloof, they
       aren't holding anything long enough to have an opinion about it.
       Fig 5 shows the essence of juggling, of tacking back and forth
       and never holding a position or opinion.
       *****************************************************
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