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Platos Kave
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#Post#: 7743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: biisuto
Date: March 12, 2026, 7:49 pm
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--- Quote from: Crystal link ---
>
> Individual actions make up society.
--- End Quote ---
I heartily disagree. Actions speak to motives, certainly, but it
is far more the jointly held interpretations of actions and
events that bind people together. It's why narrative control is
(and always has been) such a thing.
--- Quote from: Crystal ---
>
> Were the jabs safe and effective including for grandma? The
object of the game here is to see through all the lies,
otherwise we can never create another kind of society. Or like
J) says, just have an honest conversation.
--- End Quote ---
Seeing through lies is an essential element of waking up…the
most important part of that is that you need to keep going all
the way, and see for yourself how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Lies don't end with vindicating your pet theories about who did
what to whom during which outrage.
--- Quote from: Crystal ---
>
> And which animals? The ones in their natural habitat with
freedom to roam, plenty to eat and drink, or the ones humans
caged in zoos or compromised situations? There is a vet from
Norway that says animals take on the sickness of the humans,
treat the person and the animal gets better.
--- End Quote ---
No contest, animals in human proximity are susceptible to all
our same sicknesses…I'm not sure why you brought that up though…
--- Quote from: Crystal ---
>
> What’s the point of offering heretical therapy if the human
horse is so far out of the barn, there is nothing to fix? It’s
the actions some take from their thoughts that create problems
for other humans and animals. If bombs were going off while you
were trying to sleep, perhaps you could take it all on with
complete neutrality, but you would be the exception. And I bet
it’s frightening the hell out of the animals. However, I’m not
the one who has woken up with a changed perspective. In your
model, both logic and morality seem to be on the chopping block,
along with Dr. Suess, and neither the adults/children know if
they are a boy, girl, or donkey’s ass. Although the changed
perspective ones would most likely still say, there is no one,
nothing’s happening, even if their whole family gets blown up in
front of their face.
>
> The term accepting what is, falls short, on its own as a
universal concept that would have agreement across the board.
What it means to us personally is at least workable.
>
--- End Quote ---
I guess this is the meat-and-potatoes of your response… let's
work back from the end, shall we…?
"what is" is merely reality: non-conceptual, unvarnished,
uninterpreted, sans morality, ethics or judgments. It isn't
relative, or personal and it is as it is, unembellished and
regardless of whether billions agree 'across the board' …or
nobody does.
In that sense, "it (just) is".
So…'accepting' that there is a reality before our judgments,
morality, 'shoulds' and 'shouldn'ts' come in to cloud,
selectively mask, twist and colour reality to suit our
grotesquely simplistic internal mental, cultural and political
models may appear to be a very small, almost imperceptible and
meaningless gap… from the outside… but from the inside, I assure
you it grants access to the very prism…the boundless space of
possibility, from which one can see and appreciate how it is
that what seems 'evil' when viewed from one angle, seems
'logical' and 'part of the natural order' when viewed from
another… with plenty of room for all shades of in-between
besides.
…And this also happens to be the view from 'done', btw.
Now…you persist in asserting that "accepting what is" somehow
equates to smiling like a fool while one's house is being burnt
down. I assure you that isn't the case. Nor does it equate with
an absence of care, morals, ethics or preferences.
It is a starting point for putting one's own house in order, for
the sole purpose of clarity…of the kind espoused by the Buddhist
Eightfold Path.
Think about it: if I am psychotic and you are neurotic…what kind
of meaningful, constructive or helpful conversation or action
plan could we possibly hope to cook up between us to "save the
world"…?
How could we even know there's "something very wrong" that
requires saving…?
How could we tell it wasn't our own wonky internal wetwiring
being projected upon an otherwise benign world…and we're not
just making trouble for everyone we meet because of that…? (as I
write this I'm getting a flashback to the movie "12 Monkeys"…
what do you think of that guy's motives for what he did…? He saw
a sick and twisted human world and decided to do something about
it, that would help innocent animals).
There's more to respond to here, but I wanted to put this in
response, before too much time elapses.
...And isn't it obvious to you that I care...? You've been
wringing your hands and asking, "What to do?" Your questions
revolve around "how can any of the stuff we discuss here be of
practical use IRL...?"
To me, this is kind of what this whole Kave is supposed to be
about, because Jed said simply "it isn't".
I disagreed and still do.
#Post#: 7744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 8:26 pm
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--- Quote from: Plato link ---
>
> Seems to me that every other animal on the planet is accepting
of what is and they seem to get along fine, humans on the other
hand have to "fix" everything and in the "fixing" tend to
destroy everything.
>
> Societies will never embrace acceptance of what is, only
individuals can do that. The human horse is so far out of the
barn so to speak... we are not going back to hunter-gatherer
societies anytime soon (whose societies were closer to the
acceptance of the "what is" principal than we will ever be IMHO)
>
> Walt Whitman gets at it with this:
>
> By Walt Whitman
> from Song of Myself
>
> I think I could turn and live with animals,
> they are so placid and self-contain'd,
> I stand and look at them long and long.
>
> They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
> They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
> They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
> Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of
owning things,
> Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived
thousands of years ago,
> Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.
> Not one b!tches and moans for years and years about some
government asking them to get vaccinated. (:D my addition)
>
> So they show their relations to me and I accept them,
> They bring me tokens of myself, they evince them plainly in
their possession.
>
> I wonder where they get those tokens,
> Did I pass that way huge times ago and negligently drop them?
>
> What I am getting at when I advise myself to live in
acceptance of what is, is a movement back to a simpler "huge
times ago" to regain my "tokens", just for me and my well being,
nothing to do with society; that train is on a crash course to
nowhere and I'm not interested in that, other than being an
observer of life as it flows around this
>
> So to me it's personal, accepting what is, and it works so
well that I have no need of anything else. For you and your
collective idea for humanity, I see why you find it unworkable,
but I also see that you don't bring forth a solution either?
could it be that there isn't a solution to the human problem
other than singularly waking up to what works for the animals?
>
> Hmmm.
>
--- End Quote ---
Did a quick search for these animals " accepting what is" "
getting along fine" bringing y'all some "tokens of yourselves...
"
HTML https://youtu.be/ZYFxL_tKd5o?si=F3iLA-iC-7eELjla
I actually think that Walt might have glossed over the mere fact
that your entire existence being determined by where you land on
the food chain isn't as peaceful as it sounds in a book, written
for human convince and enjoyment.
Back to you Mike and Steve for a bunch **** that sounds good but
makes no f*cking sense.
#Post#: 7745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 9:00 pm
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"
--- Quote ---
> Think about it: if I am psychotic and you are neurotic…what
kind of meaningful, constructive or helpful conversation or
action plan could we possibly hope to cook up between us to
"save the world"…?
>
> How could we even know there's "something very wrong" that
requires saving…?
>
> How could we tell it wasn't our own wonky internal wetwiring
being projected upon an otherwise benign world...
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I have nothing to say about this other than I am very grateful
that I don't have this degree of question about who I am or what
I'm about.
You said you're a therapist? I do appreciate that you care. It
does count for something.
#Post#: 7746--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 9:47 pm
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So enlightenment seems to be sowing seeds of confusion until the
seeker has no clue which way is up down left or right and
therefore takes no action further more "accepting of what is"
--- Quote from: Plato link ---
>
>
> Solid.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 7747--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 9:54 pm
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And ain't no one here to answer to this nonsensical sh*t.
F*cking burn it
#Post#: 7751--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 10:17 pm
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Did like the part about sick animals in my proximity being cause
for concern.
#Post#: 7752--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 10:18 pm
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I agree. Let's work backwards from here...
#Post#: 7753--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 10:47 pm
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Taking a stab but I think you guys just have a fundamental issue
with trust and belief in yourself that you have somehow
projected onto the world which is somehow a random chaos in
which the only way you know how to function is by calling it all
crazy and taking no accountability for your own self and
therefore dismissing any agency and attacking anyone else who
has some of their own.... Just a guess by a non therapist
#Post#: 7754--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: j(
Date: March 12, 2026, 10:56 pm
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And if not Dr. Mic.. then what is your issue with reality before
human interpretation. Are humans a problem? Do they not
interpret their reality "correctly?" According to..YOU and Steve
and some dead guy?...? Or is it that they cuss while killing
each other while animals just skip that part?
#Post#: 7755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Accepting what is
DIR By: biisuto
Date: March 13, 2026, 3:02 am
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… I’m getting a Jim Morrison, free association vibe from your
riffs here… imagining now Plato putting his guitar to it and
laying down some ‘shroom-laden slam tracks!
“… Cuss while killing each other, while animals just skip that
part…”
Dayam, brother. ✊😎🎵
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