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#Post#: 6732--------------------------------------------------
Honesty
DIR By: Crystal
Date: February 11, 2023, 9:29 am
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I am starting to realize what Whois is asking with the questions
and comments she makes, whether any of us agree with her or not,
is irrelevant, but what is relevant, is she is asking all of us,
to be honest and direct. This is what I see as the biggest
kickback to her comments. She asks a question, and almost
everyone avoids it. I didn’t understand what she was asking me
at the time about ending suffering, it was because I finally
realized what her real question was. She was asking me to be
honest about What do I really want.
I read a book one time about Radical Honesty, Blanton, was the
author, if I recall. He too read the Jed work. I just remember
some of the things he wrote in that book, for questions to ask
ourselves that really made me squirm. J) I recall not too long
ago, your comment was that your life was now sexy and couldn’t
be any better. Plato, you didn’t use those words, but you too
imply that all is roses and more roses. Frits, you run, every
time, with I don’t give a sh.t or words to that effect, or imply
that everyone else just “doesn’t get it”. Well I don’t get what
you are saying, either, as your default position is, just do SA
for long enough, and eventually it will all be revealed. Joanna
you never answer her questions directly. To represent your lives
after finding the elixir of done (insert any word of done here),
is perhaps not quite being totally honest. Or perhaps your lives
are so sunny, although I am not sure if the sunny is an illusion
or the reality. The implication here from some of you, that
everything is an illusion except for Spirit Self. Now whether
that is the Truth itself, I really don’t know, perhaps it is for
your life.
#Post#: 6733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: j(
Date: February 11, 2023, 10:40 am
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"I recall not too long ago, your comment was that your life was
now sexy and couldn’t be any better."
My life could not be any better and sometimes it flat out sucks
just because that's how life works and we're not in a vacuum
here. Where's the dishonesty there in your opinion just curious?
I still have no idea what you want. It's not to be done fighting
against life as you said because now it's this whole honesty
kick you're on like that the key to something you don't already
have access to. Don't get me wrong honesty is great but who's
being "honest" and how could you tell and what would it matter
unless you're seeking answers from them anyways? What's
important is that you're honest with yourself. I don't require
honesty from others because I don't require anything from them
at all.
#Post#: 6734--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Crystal
Date: February 11, 2023, 12:59 pm
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My life could not be any better and sometimes it flat out sucks
just because that's how life works and we're not in a vacuum
here. Where's the dishonesty there in your opinion just curious?
In my opinion, there is no dishonesty in this statement. It is
what you experience.
At the time of Whois question, I gave a glib response, because I
didn't truly understand what she was asking me to ask myself.
Sort of the difference being able to read English, but not
understand what the words really mean.
#Post#: 6735--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Frits Snips
Date: February 11, 2023, 6:05 pm
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--- Quote from: Crystal link ---
> Frits, you run, every time, with I don’t give a sh.t or words
to that effect, or imply that everyone else just “doesn’t get
it”. Well I don’t get what you are saying, either, as your
default position is, just do SA for long enough, and eventually
it will all be revealed.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, "just do SA for long enough, and eventually it will all be
revealed" is my default position... because it works. But you
don't know that it works, because you don't do the work. Don't
blame me for that.
#Post#: 6736--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Plato
Date: February 12, 2023, 9:29 am
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I have been thinking about Nessa's response to her
interpretation of my "life is nothing but wine roses and song"
diatribes, also thinking about all the "loaded" terms for the
state we are here discussing; enlightenment, done,
self-Realization, abiding non-dual awareness, god consciousness,
awakening, bliss and many many others. It seems that everyone to
varying degrees has their own definition for each of these
theoretical states of consciousness or being, I guess that's to
be expected since it's impossible using language to clearly
express what is beyond expression and everyones experience is
singular.
But that doesn't seem to stop us from trying. I think that the
term Liberation feels the most accurate to what's going on here
and I will give it a shot to explain why. Pack a lunch, I'm
nothing if not verbose.
There was an existence, a body/mind with a 100% "me" in it and
that "me" 100% felt like a fraud, a liar, a pretender and not
worthy of nearly anything, even it's existence. There was also a
rage/fury surrounding those feelings and these coupled with an
ego/mind whose sole existence seemed to be in preparation for an
attack and also a willingness to protect these feelings at
almost any cost.
That constant thought process probably took up 95% of this
"me's" energy and the craziest part is that the "me" was totally
unaware that any of this was going on. The programming that
drove the machine was there long before basic self awareness
starts kicking in.
At about 30 I started learning to "adult", introspection began
to open the door to other temporal options and the courage to
take on the responsibility to go after them. On the temporal
plane there was; better career, more money and slightly
better/longer relationships, spiritually I began the long exit
from religion (about 10 years to fully extricate) but
unfortunately there were still the original core feelings that
the "me" could not shake and now even more so as the
realization/bitterness of how thoroughly I had been duped by
religion and it's adherents became more and more apparent. Anger
was never far away.
Like a BS Intagram account that always shows the person living
their best life daily, the "me's" exterior life looked amazing
but the actual feelings underneath had not changed at all. The
new facade held things (relationships) together longer but the
end result was still always the same.
"Me" was trapped in a mental prison, a prison of the mind so
impenetrable that no amount of introspection, adulting, self
awareness seminars, secular accomplishments, money or beautiful
women could break me out of it. And that's fine for most people,
they live their lives blissfully unaware that there's any
problem with this, it's just life and the sooner you get ok with
that the better off you are right?
For some reason here, the third failure at marriage coupled with
the overt and very public shaming at being cuckolded by several
friends... pushed the ego cart over the edge. The subsequent
massive ego depletion; a seismic mind shift beyond blaming and
victimhood, opened the door for Grace to enter and reside, an
ecstasy filled ride on a Truth/Love cloud that at the time I
thought would last forever but faded within the month. The
devastation of feeling "at one with God" and then like Icarus,
falling back to the junk pile of self-hatred and rage was nearly
disabling. Suicide was suddenly a palpable option to get back.
But I had one thing in my corner now, I knew for a fact that
truth exists, I had lived within it's warm embrace for nearly a
month and nothing I had ever experienced prior came remotely
close to it. With that knowledge in hand and literally nothing
else, no clues as to where to look and what to look for, I did
what anyone looking for truth would do; started watching Oprah
Super Soul Sunday ::) it was a start.
The slow but all encompassing slog of self inquiry had begun,
fitful at first but slowly sorting out what felt "Real" or at
least relatable when compared to the month long T/L cloud ride
and just continued in that direction. I honestly don't know how
searchers find anything without Love (agape version) as a
baseline against which to test the veracity of any
guru/teacher's teaching, it made sifting through the BS much
easier.
3 years of 24/7 spiritual search later, in late December 2014
although much progress/learning had been made, it was just an
intellectual understanding of the non-dual concepts and not much
else. I could talk the talk but there was no walking the walk
and I was still stuck with all these feelings and thoughts...
but things were def starting to get shaky at this point, Ken had
pointed me at my need to be special and I was working hard on
that, seeing it in every move I had ever made! It was terrifying
but instead of hitting the brakes, I slammed the accelerator
with everything I had.
After weeks of gut wrenching realizations that "me" was nothing
but an amalgam of thoughts around the need to be special,
literally thousands of thoughts veiling a massive fear at its
core there came the glance into the abyss of Nothingness. A day
or so later came the end.
Awakening to a deafening Silence.
Perfect, Brilliant, Stillness. There's a reason David Carse
titled his book so, it's the end of one lifetime and the
beginning of another. It continues here, it correlates and
corroborates the state of no-mind or beginners-mind.
This shift was one of Liberation. False and inaccurate beliefs,
thoughts and feelings, the bars of this cell, spinning through
this mind like a tornado 24/7 365 for about 50 years and then...
Nothing. Total liberation from a torture chamber that I wasn't
even aware existed until it was gone. All that time the
programming was so efficient and all encompassing, for like a
zombie I stocked and fortified the entire structure to keep me
away from Truth and Love, my fingerprints were all over this
monstrosity and it was perfect clarity of this fact, after years
of digging, that brought the entire structure called "me"
metaphorically crashing to the ground, it was all a figment of
my imagination from the get go. All just "mind stuff".
It was the final end of the mechanism by which erroneous
thinking was created, arising to protect the ego, to spare "me"
and my false beliefs (programming) of being a fraudulent
non-entity from being exposed to the world.
Gone were the lies, the needs, the anger, jealousy and rage, the
blaming and the feelings of betrayal. All gone, all at once
after years of hard work, commitment and most thankfully Grace.
There's still a "me" in here but instead of 100% it feels like
about 20% and dropping as cleaning out the corners of this attic
continue, there is no going back, that is a known quantity.
Liberation indeed.
#Post#: 6738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Plato
Date: February 12, 2023, 9:52 pm
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--- Quote from: whois link ---
>
> Gosh Steve.. who cares? :'(
>
> This vulnerability is shattering there's so much you in it. I
keep thinking... Ken gave away almost nothing of himself, any
human expression had to be prised out he canned it so well.
>
> And you are giving away it all.
>
> Most people feel the same sense of alienation, of being a fake
and a liar, throughout their lives. Except psychopaths.
>
> Remove it; I would. It's like seeing a baby turtoise without a
shell. Or maybe I am too sensitive to the extremes. :-*
>
--- End Quote ---
I know, vulnerability makes the ego squirm, it's actually a
super power but very few understand that..
PS. Ken was a charlatan hiding from the law, he didn't have a
choice to be forthcoming.
#Post#: 6739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Joanna
Date: February 13, 2023, 2:37 am
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It's not telling the story that makes the ego squirm. It's the
threat of stirring the feelings underneath the story. Because
those feelings are like foundations, you feel them fully, the
story collapses. And who would we be without our stories?
#Post#: 6740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Plato
Date: February 13, 2023, 10:09 am
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--- Quote from: Joanna link ---
>
> It's not telling the story that makes the ego squirm. It's the
threat of stirring the feelings underneath the story. Because
those feelings are like foundations, you feel them fully, the
story collapses. And who would we be without our stories?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's not the ego here squirming, the ability to tell the story
without any feelings arising is the end of suffering. It's
Nessa's ego thats squirming, she can't imagine laying herself
that bare and is uncomfortable with me doing it. Obviously
neither can you since we know more about Nessa than we do about
you.
As usual you both miss the point entirely. I was called out for
being over enthusiastic about this life since 2015, Crystal
asked for honesty from everyone here about what they were
expressing so I dug deep, spent some time and effort to be
brutally honest and as clear as possible about why I express the
experience here the way I do. I don't need to tell this story,
it's only told in an effort to express (to others who are
asking) that there is a way out of suffering, I found it and at
that point the story became that "I" was no longer the main
element in the story.
What I find lately in here is that anytime someone gets "real"
there comes a wave of critics who are never forthcoming about
themselves, it's pretty boring honestly, thanks Crystal for your
honest contribution here instead of posting worn out platitudes
plagiarized from others.
#Post#: 6742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Plato
Date: February 13, 2023, 12:59 pm
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--- Quote from: whois link ---
>
> [quote author=Plato link=topic=219.msg6740#msg6740
date=1676304590]
>
> It's not the ego here squirming, it's Nessa's ego, she can't
imagine laying herself that bare and is uncomfortable with me
doing it. Obviously neither can you since we know more about
Nessa than we do about you.
>
> As usual you both miss the point entirely. I was called out
for being over enthusiastic about this life since 2015, Crystal
asked for honesty from everyone here about what they were
expressing so I dug deep, spent some time and effort to be
brutally honest and as clear as possible about why I express the
experience here the way I do. I don't need to tell this story,
it's only told in an effort to express (to others who are
asking) that there is a way out of suffering, I found it and at
that point the story became that "I" was no longer the main
element in the story.
>
> What I find lately in here is that anytime someone gets "real"
there comes a wave of critics who are never forthcoming about
themselves, it's pretty boring honestly, thanks Crystal for your
honest contribution here instead of posting worn out platitudes
plagiarized from others.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is not very fair, Steve. Since 2014 when we started this
little exchange here, I have revealed a shitload about my life
and self, and how I felt about things.
Also, being honest does not mean taking off the last pair of
knickers for all to see. I used to have no boundaries in that
way, but learned that no one is really interested in my
knickers. I hate it when my privacy is violated. But I also hate
it when other people violate their own privacy.
I perceived you as naked in what you wrote, and expressed this.
Honestly.
Shoot me.
[/quote]
I expressed that we have more info about you than Joanna, the
point of the story is that there is less need to hide simply
being human when the I is knocked off it's pedestal and put
where it belongs, along with that comes equanimity and end of
suffering. Don't believe me? Great. This message isn't for you
then.
You are more uncomfortable with what I wrote than I am, how is
that possible? Because I have nothing to hide and there is
strength in that kind of honesty not weakness although the world
of critics would have you believe otherwise. As a creative, I
know the difference between those who create and those whose
fear sends them into tearing down what others create. The world
has never been about Good vs Evil, from a duality standpoint
(which is false but it's Maya's playground) it's about Fear vs
Courage, if you're going to live in Maya's playground at least
part of the time you are choosing one of those two options every
second of every day.
Since doing the work Jed suggests, it's far easier to choose
courage than ever before and the results in this life are
evidence to it's efficacy.
#Post#: 6744--------------------------------------------------
Re: Honesty
DIR By: Plato
Date: February 13, 2023, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: whois link ---
>
> [quote author=Plato link=topic=219.msg6742#msg6742
date=1676314747]
>
>
> You are more uncomfortable with what I wrote than I am, how is
that possible?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, it is possible. Because I don't want to see you hurt.
--- Quote from: Plato link ---
>
>
> The world has never been about Good vs Evil, from a duality
standpoint (which is false but it's Maya's playground) it's
about Fear vs Courage
>
--- End Quote ---
Courageous people get shot just the same way as cowards, fear or
not. That's reality. And courage is not placing self in the line
of fire when there's no need for it.
Here - is harmless, of course. Not so much 'out there'.
But perhaps your world is really all about sunshine, in which
case, we will never reconcile our views. And that's OK too,
Steve.
[/quote]
But that's the point, honesty is a strength, the courage to be
honest breeds more strength and courage, you can be shot hiding
under your desk or charging the gunman, I choose the latter and
try to stand up for those who seem to have the propensity for
the same.
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