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#Post#: 6001--------------------------------------------------
What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Joanna
Date: July 19, 2022, 3:54 am
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Jed on Sonaya:
"Do you like Sonaya?" I asked Annie.
"Sonaya is love," Annie replied, as if the question were too
stupid to ask, which, I suppose, it was.
Sonaya arrived five years ago and simply took over. In the first
few months of her time here I learned that she had been with the
International Society for Krishna Consciousness for about
twenty- five years. She had run households and kitchens when she
was with them, too. Her devotions hadn't shifted, she once
explained to me. When she was with them she wasn't really with
them but with Krishna, and now she wasn't really with me, but
with Krishna.
I got it. Not immediately, but eventually I realized that in all
things, in every action, in every second of every day, she was
practicing a conscious devotion to her lord. It might look like
she was cooking for the group or washing floors for her own
sense of cleanliness or managing the complexities of a diverse
group of people for the benefit of those people or running an
accidental ashram for me, but once I got the hang of her and
really started paying attention to the way she paid attention
to, well, everything, then I saw it. She was present in every
moment, and every moment was a devotion to Krishna. It had
nothing to do with me or the house or the whole
whatever's-going-on-here thing. Sonaya was doing what Sonaya
did, and this was just the place where she did it.
And who or what was Krishna to her? Was he the blue-skinned
youth of portraits? Arjuna's charioteer? Vishnu? Brahma? I don't
know. Sonaya has never been my student in any sense. She has
never asked me anything and I have never been tempted to
translate her worldview into my terms or mine into hers. She has
the most beautiful and fully integrated faith I have ever been
privileged to observe. She could command armies or govern
nations with the same apparent ease with which she runs this
house. She shines. She is always radiant and soft, even when
she's being hard. If there's a mystic in our household, it's
Sonaya — she's the mystical one. She possesses effortless
correctness and imperturbability at all times and in all things.
She is above and beyond the tasks and chores in which she is
constantly absorbed. She, like me, is a different order of
being, but neither caterpillar nor butterfly. I don't know what
that makes her, but I am profoundly grateful to have her near.
From my point of view, of course, Sonaya was heaven-sent. There
is no house without Sonaya. No book. No me prattling on and on.
Well, I'd still be prattling, but probably only with a slightly
malnourished and deathly bored dog for an audience. I love this
planet and this universe and this whole human thing, and one of
the reasons I love it is because of the magic that holds it all
together. When I look at Sonaya I see that magic most clearly.
Jed on love:
"(...) This line of dialog began when someone said they disagree
with me about love being rooted in fear. Everyone disagrees with
me about that, at least until they open their eyes and see it
for themselves. Before that, they believe that love is the big
kahuna, the grand prize, the whole shebang, the very meaning of
life, and that anyone who doesn't love love is just a big fat
stupid-head." (jedvaita)
"Love has a real counterpart in the adult world, but as long as
you accept the shadow as real you'll never turn around to see
what's casting it." (JT#2)
Which kind of love Sonaya represents?
#Post#: 6002--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Plato
Date: July 19, 2022, 9:14 am
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There's the Love that radiates and illuminates all things and is
all things, In ACIM it is talked about as the only thing that is
real, anything that isn't that love is "not real". If you have
had the exquisite opportunity to feel even the smallest sense of
this in a God Consciousness event or some such, it will be the
most powerful thing that ever happens to you in this form on the
planet. It is to be privy to Creation, the power that runs and
is in everything. People who have experienced this deep
"electricity" that powers everything have a completely different
sense of the word "Love" from that point on, lets's call it Big
"L" Love. It is an all encompassing, knock you to your knees, in
the presence of deity kinda thing, it is relativized by nothing
and it relativizes everything.
People who have experienced this type of love aren't afraid
anymore, even of death, theirs and others. The Understanding is
made clear that "all is well" forever, regardless of what the
world and it's 8 billion minds think about it. When reading
Jed's description, this is the Love that Sonaya is deeply aware
of and is exuded by her in everything she does. IMHO
Standard human small letter "l" love is all about the "me" and
it's fear that there isn't enough to go around and that one must
be in constant fear of losing what love it has cobbled together
in it's life. So we see jealousy and manipulation and all sorts
of mental gymnastics to hang onto what someone "thinks" they
love which ends up just being "ownership". This doesn't preclude
that there isn't any big "L" Love here, it can show up
occasionally in an altruistic form, usually parent child formats
where instinct over-rules mind based "love" but it is much rarer
than the manipulations being utilized in the name of love but
are really based in fear.
#Post#: 6007--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Plato
Date: July 19, 2022, 1:48 pm
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It's interesting, I'm writing from experience of these things
and whatever interpretation that experience conjures up here,
Ness also writes from experience but from the experience of a
cynical reporter's perspective, all the "this guy is flawed in
this way" stories that she and her intrepid mind have sorted
out. She never misses an opportunity to point out her
discoveries about who these people really are but I find it
somewhat off the subject to continually point out that Buddha
had to get up and defecate at some point while sitting under
that tree...
Yes all these people with their vanities and name changing have
their very human sides, I feel that goes without saying, I'm
interested in the points where they have transcended the obvious
and mundane and connected with something more than what they had
for lunch. I find Adya quite accurate in many ways when compared
to my own experience and so I cut him a bit of slack when it
comes to robe wearing, name changing, money making whatever. I
leaned on his experience when in seeker mode myself and I
appreciated what he brought to the table without feeling any
need to pay for more than a book or two and certainly with no
need to see or follow him about...
Nessa will call me naive, so be it, naive to what the world is
street smart to and street smart to what the world is naive
to... :D
#Post#: 6009--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Plato
Date: July 19, 2022, 4:30 pm
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--- Quote from: whois link ---
>
>
> Unlike Steven/Plato, Steven/Adya understands his spiritual
business model 100%, and he is really good at it.
>
> My rose glasses were dropped in a ditch, together with every
spiritual book and quote. There is nothing 'out there' to
connect to, and nothing in that world of 'transcended' humans
except vanity and deceit.
>
> I understand it sounds cynical, nihilistic, critical and
what's not. But since when is truth pretty?
>
> Each to their own, no sweat.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'd like to see the UFC brawl of Adya vs UG Krish! Optimist,
sweetheart, money grubber VS Nihilist, Cave dwelling,
misanthrope...
Ha, my spiritual business model is about like Frits's without
the intelligence of a PayPal button. I don't even know how to
run this forum, let alone make money from it. luckily I adulted
before mind quit and that fan kept running past the point of the
plug being pulled. So there were survival tactics in place that
basically just kept going without me "trying to make it all
happen". Very lucky.
#Post#: 6011--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Joanna
Date: July 20, 2022, 5:08 am
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What would Sonaya do if "her lord" asked her to become a full
time spiritual teacher?
Or is it "thy will be done" until I decide that "thy will"
doesn't sit right with my moral code?
Working for free.. love or fear? Altruism or self-hatred
(underestimating the value of what one has to offer and own
needs)?
What does it mean to be truly altruistic?
#Post#: 6012--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Plato
Date: July 20, 2022, 9:03 am
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--- Quote from: Joanna link ---
>
> What would Sonaya do if "her lord" asked her to become a full
time spiritual teacher?
>
> Or is it "thy will be done" until I decide that "thy will"
doesn't sit right with my moral code?
>
> Working for free.. love or fear? Altruism or self-hatred
(underestimating the value of what one has to offer and own
needs)?
>
> What does it mean to be truly altruistic?
>
--- End Quote ---
I would suggest you ask one question, over and over until you
get an answer, that question is: "Why am I asking all these
questions?" When you get to the bottom of that question, all
other questions answer themselves.
#Post#: 6031--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Joanna
Date: July 21, 2022, 1:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Plato link ---
>
> [quote author=Joanna link=topic=205.msg6011#msg6011
date=1658311700]
> What would Sonaya do if "her lord" asked her to become a full
time spiritual teacher?
>
> Or is it "thy will be done" until I decide that "thy will"
doesn't sit right with my moral code?
>
> Working for free.. love or fear? Altruism or self-hatred
(underestimating the value of what one has to offer and own
needs)?
>
> What does it mean to be truly altruistic?
>
--- End Quote ---
I would suggest you ask one question, over and over until you
get an answer, that question is: "Why am I asking all these
questions?" When you get to the bottom of that question, all
other questions answer themselves.
[/quote]
"Spiritual Autolysis, aka SA, self inquiry - a term as defined
by Jed McKenna in the book "Enlightenment, the Damnedest Thing"
that signifies a process of self inquiry in which a person
challenges the veracity of one's own beliefs and appropriated
belief systems through systematic writing, subsequently
'shedding' all that is found to be untrue."
Am I doing it wrong? What's wrong with these questions?
#Post#: 6033--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Plato
Date: July 21, 2022, 12:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joanna link ---
>
> [quote author=Plato link=topic=205.msg6012#msg6012
date=1658325836]
> [quote author=Joanna link=topic=205.msg6011#msg6011
date=1658311700]
> What would Sonaya do if "her lord" asked her to become a full
time spiritual teacher?
>
> Or is it "thy will be done" until I decide that "thy will"
doesn't sit right with my moral code?
>
> Working for free.. love or fear? Altruism or self-hatred
(underestimating the value of what one has to offer and own
needs)?
>
> What does it mean to be truly altruistic?
>
--- End Quote ---
I would suggest you ask one question, over and over until you
get an answer, that question is: "Why am I asking all these
questions?" When you get to the bottom of that question, all
other questions answer themselves.
[/quote]
"Spiritual Autolysis, aka SA, self inquiry - a term as defined
by Jed McKenna in the book "Enlightenment, the Damnedest Thing"
that signifies a process of self inquiry in which a person
challenges the veracity of one's own beliefs and appropriated
belief systems through systematic writing, subsequently
'shedding' all that is found to be untrue."
Am I doing it wrong? What's wrong with these questions?
[/quote]
Nothing wrong with questions, lord knows thats all I had for
what seemed like forever. Where the problem comes in is asking
others for the answers because "their answers" are not "your
answers" and the only way to get to your answers is by asking
yourself "why do I have this question?" then you can become the
detective that pulls back layer by layer of appropiated belief
systems that created the questions in the first place. You
didn't have these questions when you were born, nor when you
were 5 or 10 years old, you just [i]lived[/I]
That's what ends up being the problem, there is a "motor" that
keeps asking questions. That motor runs the fan that keeps
spinning, spinning and spinning. No one else's answers will stop
your fan from spinning. If you want "this", a quiet mind that
only works when there's actually work to do, then you have to
pull the plug on the fan and the only way I know that works in
accomplishing that is by calling bullshit on all the reasons the
questions keep coming. The only way to call BS on questions that
seem "real and important" is to dig to the bottom of what
started creating and driving those questions in the first place.
To see through what is generating them and what it is that's
grasping at, thinking that, these answers will solve anything.
They won't. They are the problem and that's the only problem you
should be looking to solve.
Nobody had more questions than me, now there are none and the
world is a completely different place when all those questions
go away... and yet, it didn't change at all.
It's like Jed alluded to with the Buddhist guy in Damnedest,
There's no need to cultivate "altruism" or "selflessness" or any
other type of beingness, you'll have those things aplenty when
you dig to your own bedrock of whats real.
#Post#: 6034--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Plato
Date: July 21, 2022, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joanna link ---
>
> [quote author=Plato link=topic=205.msg6012#msg6012
date=1658325836]
> [quote author=Joanna link=topic=205.msg6011#msg6011
date=1658311700]
> What would Sonaya do if "her lord" asked her to become a full
time spiritual teacher?
>
> This is a hypothetical question, no need to even entertain a
question like this until it happens to you.
>
> Or is it "thy will be done" until I decide that "thy will"
doesn't sit right with my moral code?
>
> Again, totally hypothetical, when the Infinite speaks to you
and tells you your moral code is "off" you will definitely know
what to do. until then "What me worry?"
>
> Working for free.. love or fear? Altruism or self-hatred
(underestimating the value of what one has to offer and own
needs)?
>
> Not sure what this question means, when one has been working
from fear their whole existence, it's very difficult to tell
where impetus is generated from, all the more reason to get to
the bottom of "things" so one can verify more clearly what the
impetus for action really is.
>
> What does it mean to be truly altruistic?
>
> I don't really believe that altruism is a "thing" for humans.
There is always a bit of "self" in every assessment, even when
giving one's life in a heroic moment, the assessment has to have
been made that it's valuable to self to act on one's moral code,
if not in this life then in the supposed next.
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 6037--------------------------------------------------
Re: What IS Sonaya?
DIR By: Frits Snips
Date: July 21, 2022, 7:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joanna link ---
>
> What would Sonaya do if "her lord" asked her to become a full
time spiritual teacher?
>
> Or is it "thy will be done" until I decide that "thy will"
doesn't sit right with my moral code?
>
> Working for free.. love or fear? Altruism or self-hatred
(underestimating the value of what one has to offer and own
needs)?
>
> What does it mean to be truly altruistic?
>
--- End Quote ---
So here are my answers and do with it what you will... don't
trust me, but if it feels good, it must be good.
What would Sonaya do if "her lord" asked her to become a full
time spiritual teacher?
She would do it and become a full time spiritual teacher.
Or is it "thy will be done" until I decide that "thy will"
doesn't sit right with my moral code?
No.
Working for free.. love or fear? Altruism or self-hatred
(underestimating the value of what one has to offer and own
needs)?
I don't get the question.
What does it mean to be truly altruistic?
The same as the opposite... nothing!
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