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#Post#: 5330--------------------------------------------------
Question
DIR By: Crystal
Date: April 25, 2022, 10:44 am
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Hello, I have a question for all of you. When I am at the park,
I can view everything in front of me, as if I am watching TV,
just as an appearance that appears. However, when something
happens that solicits a emotional response, whether it is happy
or sad, or gut wrenching, I don't know what to do with it. Of
course happy is easier, but when it is a response that tears me
apart, and I do the inquiry into it, time and time and time
again, and it sticks around, and doesn't collapse, and keeps
coming up, and runs my life, then, I don't know what to do with
it. I haven't progressed to the stage of not identifying with
body/mind/emotions- still have lots of skin in that game. Also,
if you respond, can you make your answer be in such a way, that
my emotional body may understand? Thank you. I appreciate your
time.
#Post#: 5331--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Frits Snips
Date: April 25, 2022, 12:21 pm
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Hi Crystal,
I think in a way you gave yourself the answer.
--- Quote from: Crystal link ---
>
> I haven't progressed to the stage of not identifying with
body/mind/emotions - still have lots of skin in that game.
>
--- End Quote ---
That is why. The only thing you can do is keep on doing what you
are doing, do the inquiry and question everything, time and time
again, until one fine day the quarter drops and then you'll say
to yourself: "Damn! Why didn't I see this before?"
It can be a long process and a painful process, it's different
for everyone. You just gotta keep at it, and I promise you it
will pay of.
#Post#: 5332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Joanna
Date: April 27, 2022, 4:28 am
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HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtFnqx9SU2E
#Post#: 5333--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Plato
Date: April 29, 2022, 12:16 pm
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--- Quote from: Crystal link ---
>
> Hello, I have a question for all of you. When I am at the
park, I can view everything in front of me, as if I am watching
TV, just as an appearance that appears. However, when something
happens that solicits a emotional response, whether it is happy
or sad, or gut wrenching, I don't know what to do with it. Of
course happy is easier, but when it is a response that tears me
apart, and I do the inquiry into it, time and time and time
again, and it sticks around, and doesn't collapse, and keeps
coming up, and runs my life, then, I don't know what to do with
it. I haven't progressed to the stage of not identifying with
body/mind/emotions- still have lots of skin in that game. Also,
if you respond, can you make your answer be in such a way, that
my emotional body may understand? Thank you. I appreciate your
time.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi Crystal, Just wanted to welcome you to Plato's Kave, I'll
have some time next week to tackle your question as I feel there
is a lot to it and it deserves being poked at a bit to see what
comes out from the characters who hang out hereabouts.
#Post#: 5334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Crystal
Date: May 2, 2022, 8:25 am
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Hello again, thank you for your responses. Let me see if I can
articulate the question better. There is a distinct dissonance
going on. There are times when the real self of awareness can
stay in that realm, and it is possible to observe it all from
detachment (on occasion, for brief moments or when in nature
primarily). Then the rest of the time I can feel the slip and
inhabit the conditioned self with all its emotional responses –
the list is long, but the short one is this hatred I have
towards the government and their obsession with oppression,
human rights violations; and people who deliberately pollute and
kill the environment, abuse children, animals, etc. The hatred,
rage, judgement that comes up is so strong, that I just want out
of this hell hole. The hatred I have towards people who can’t
see through all these lies and corruption is equally as strong.
This emotional response I have is the one that doesn’t collapse
and gives rise time after time. I am going to make some
assumptions here, that Frits your take on it is, that with
continuing the inquiry, that eventually this will fall away. Not
sure I will live that long as to be frank, this emotional
response, is actually making me sick. Joanna, your take on it is
that, all I have to do is send love to these “shadow” parts of
female/male energetic patterns to integrate them. If my
conditioned self is creating this sickness & hatred towards
these events, then, how would I uncreate it. Telling myself this
is not real, it’s just a dream, and I think I’ve used every
single one of Jed’s “tricks” and more, and yet, this emotional
response, repeats like groundhog day. And it’s not just this
emotional response with thoughts, but I can walk in a room or be
anywhere, my body automatically goes into contraction or
expansion with the existing “energy” that it is about to
encounter. Thanks again for your time and tips.
#Post#: 5335--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Plato
Date: May 3, 2022, 5:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Crystal link ---
>
> Hello again, thank you for your responses. Let me see if I can
articulate the question better. There is a distinct dissonance
going on. There are times when the real self of awareness can
stay in that realm, and it is possible to observe it all from
detachment (on occasion, for brief moments or when in nature
primarily). Then the rest of the time I can feel the slip and
inhabit the conditioned self with all its emotional responses –
the list is long, but the short one is this hatred I have
towards the government and their obsession with oppression,
human rights violations; and people who deliberately pollute and
kill the environment, abuse children, animals, etc. The hatred,
rage, judgement that comes up is so strong, that I just want out
of this hell hole. The hatred I have towards people who can’t
see through all these lies and corruption is equally as strong.
This emotional response I have is the one that doesn’t collapse
and gives rise time after time. I am going to make some
assumptions here, that Frits your take on it is, that with
continuing the inquiry, that eventually this will fall away. Not
sure I will live that long as to be frank, this emotional
response, is actually making me sick. Joanna, your take on it is
that, all I have to do is send love to these “shadow” parts of
female/male energetic patterns to integrate them. If my
conditioned self is creating this sickness & hatred towards
these events, then, how would I uncreate it. Telling myself this
is not real, it’s just a dream, and I think I’ve used every
single one of Jed’s “tricks” and more, and yet, this emotional
response, repeats like groundhog day. And it’s not just this
emotional response with thoughts, but I can walk in a room or be
anywhere, my body automatically goes into contraction or
expansion with the existing “energy” that it is about to
encounter. Thanks again for your time and tips.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi Crystal,
I believe your question, while very personal in nature, still
gets to the gist at the bottom of everything... Attachment to
ego's perceived sense of Right vs Wrong, in this case your ego's
perceived sense of it. There is a lot to unpack here but I will
try to put into words what I could have only understood through
grace.
Lets start with temporal thoughts, my childhood was rife with
unfairness, ie. a parent (god) being capricious and unfair to
one sibling over another. This created in my ego a hyper focused
sense of right and wrong and unfairness as I perceived it. This
lead to a lifetime of sensitivity and anger verging on rage when
confronted with anything that seemed unfair, as it concerned
anyone or anything but especially when it concerned me.
When I finally found Jed's writings and the online ashram, I had
been through many relationships with them all ending in
predominantly the same fashion and what I realized in one fell
swoop was that I was the architect of my life and that if this
pattern were to change it wouldn't happen outside of me but on
the inside. Through Jed's and others teachings I found my way
through and to the bottom of myself and at that point the
realization that there was nothing there, that all my thoughts
were a fiction based on everything that came before (which was
also a fiction) at this point the house of cards I had spent a
lifetime building... evaporated, it didn't even fall down
because, the realization was that it never was.
this is the point where perception rose up out of the maelstrom
of life, pulled back and above the fray, for the first time I
saw that everything happening, while seeming real was really
just a perception filtered through all my programming and
converted into judgements, judgements issued from a house of
cards that was never real. I realized that I had set myself up
as a god, thinking I was omniscient, that I knew how things
should and shouldn't be and my attachment to my righteousness
was all encompassing, the fire of rage was it's engine. Now,
having seen through the self my perception was different, I
realized that all my perceptions were just that and nothing
else, I could laugh at my sense of outrage at innocents being
butchered in wars because for the first time I was in
acknowledgment that I did not create this world, I didn't even
ask to be a part of it to my knowledge and that I had no idea
what the purpose of all of it was. I was the laughing Buddha,
everything is perfect as it is and if I desire I can engage this
perfection not iwith a sense of outrage but simply from a place
of love and understanding, understanding that no one
understands, myself included.
This path took decades here, I was 50 before it started to
really unravel although I started awakening at 30, Im not
necessarily a proponent of psychedelics but I have experimented
and have come to some key understandings about the nature of
love and what is real through that process, although it was not
how the most progress was made here. The most progress came
through excruciating pain and self loathing, it forced me to
look deeper and harder than ever before, 24/7 searching which
over time lead to whatever understanding currently resides here,
that understanding has left me devoid of pain, engaged in
existence and relationships like never before and praising
existence for the bounty of life, sunshine which is simply the
love of god, grass which cries to it's maker in joy as it rises
and withers... everything here is magical, mystical, the unknown
and the unknowable, it's beauty surpasses everything and it is
everything. Unless... unless one decides they have a better idea
of how this universe should be run. Unless one supplants the
Universe's plan with their own and then gnashes their teeth as
the Universe laughs and does what it does anyway.
As Byron Katie says "argue with what IS and you lose but only
100% of the time". For this Body/Mind getting into alignment
with what is changed everything, most of all it changed how I
interacted with things that I didn't like, instead of anger and
rage I now am able to engage from a clear and clean position, my
movements are accepted more readily and consequently much more
fruitful than ever before. Some have accused me of exiting life,
burying my head but on the contrary, I am much more involved in
life, much more apt to act (out of love) in behalf of what I
sense to be right action (loving action).
There is a lot of "I" in the forgoing statement, partially
because I can't speak to anyone else's journey, partially
because much of what is being expressed is from a time when "I"
was much larger than it currently is and also because your
question is posed from an "I" position. If interested you can
read the timeline of transition at Jed's forum, it's "my" ladder
that I used to climb out of hell, you won't be able to use it
but it might give a clue or a pointer that will help you build
your ladder out of hell as well. user name "know1" thread is
"Done".
I didn't proof read this so hopefully it's cogent,
:) Steve
#Post#: 5336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Crystal
Date: May 3, 2022, 9:31 pm
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Frits, today in my writings, I saw so clearly how attached I am
to how life should be. Just so righteous, as if I am the
authority on right and wrong. Later in the day, when I logged in
to this site, Plato, you gave me the expanded version. Thank you
for sharing your journey because it was exactly what I needed to
hear. Joanna, all I have to do now is integrate it, got it with
my head just has to move through the rest of this "vehicle".
Just hit me like a ton of bricks on how everything we love, gets
taken from us, a son, a cat, the beautiful trees, to wake us up.
Just had this feeling I would find that next step if I wrote
here. I remember most of you from Jed's forum. I read his entire
forum one winter, a few years ago. It's a slog this process,
with lots of fits and farts, but so grateful when a piece gets
dislodged. Sometimes it's so damn hard to see my own stuff, and
it's easier to see someone else's, so I figured if I wrote here,
that you would help me see it, and you did. Thank you. Just
don't want to get into the no me or you at this point....the
emotional attachments was a huge stuck piece, that needed to be
seen through. From the top of my heart, thank you, to all of
you.
#Post#: 5337--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Frits Snips
Date: May 4, 2022, 3:27 am
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--- Quote from: Crystal link ---
>
> Frits, today in my writings, I saw so clearly how attached I
am to how life should be. Just so righteous, as if I am the
authority on right and wrong. Later in the day, when I logged in
to this site, Plato, you gave me the expanded version. Thank you
for sharing your journey because it was exactly what I needed to
hear. Joanna, all I have to do now is integrate it, got it with
my head just has to move through the rest of this "vehicle".
Just hit me like a ton of bricks on how everything we love, gets
taken from us, a son, a cat, the beautiful trees, to wake us up.
Just had this feeling I would find that next step if I wrote
here. I remember most of you from Jed's forum. I read his entire
forum one winter, a few years ago. It's a slog this process,
with lots of fits and farts, but so grateful when a piece gets
dislodged. Sometimes it's so damn hard to see my own stuff, and
it's easier to see someone else's, so I figured if I wrote here,
that you would help me see it, and you did. Thank you. Just
don't want to get into the no me or you at this point....the
emotional attachments was a huge stuck piece, that needed to be
seen through. From the top of my heart, thank you, to all of
you.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm glad it helped, Crystal... feel free to write here anytime
you need to. It helps to write and share. It did help me to
write and share here — and Steve (Plato) knows what a ride it
has been for me and how often I've cursed this place to hell —
but it helped me to actually wake up and see what IS instead of
what is NOT. The offer this place offers is to make use of it,
make use of us... it's why we're still here.
#Post#: 5338--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Joanna
Date: May 4, 2022, 6:03 am
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Crystal,
Where does your body end and matter/the Earth begin? The
separation is illusory, isn't it? Hence, as long as there are
people abusing this planet, we're gonna feel the pain of it.
What can we do about it?
Two options:
1. A temporary one. Disconnect from your body. Live from your
head.
What happens when that option is not available anymore? Hatred
and rage comes to the surface. Which is a natural body's
reaction at feeling unwanted, excluded. The mind can create
stories around these feelings and then we can busy ourselves
with dismantling them but it won't work for long because the
stories are not the problem. The disconnection is the problem.
2. Arrive as Presence in your body. Meet the pain.
Underneath all these challenging feelings there is grief. Oceans
of grief. Grief is good. Grief is surrender. Grief breaks our
hearts open, and that's where connection, intimacy, oneness
hides. Not in the empty head but in the open, empty heart. The
wider the heart opens the less of a problem the pain is.
Speaking of right vs. wrong. What's wrong with hatred? What's
wrong with rage? Practice meeting any feeling in the safety of
your own bedroom and you won't get lost in them "out there".
From my own experience. I've spent years trying to figure out
why, even though my head was free of all the stories I still had
all these feelings chasing me. The answer is, there is something
in us that longs to recognize itself as everything, including
all those feelings we don't like. You really don't want to stand
in its way. Because that "something" is your True Self.
P.S. We normally think of abusing the planet as cutting trees,
slaughtering animals, etc., but if our bodies are part of this
planet aren't our attempts to silence them also a form of abuse?
A lot to explore when it comes to this realm of existence.
#Post#: 5339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Question
DIR By: Joanna
Date: May 4, 2022, 2:12 pm
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"I am tired of hearing what God is from head-tripping men. I am
tired of hearing what God is from isolationists on a spiritual
quest. I am tired of hearing what God is from lovers of
detachment. I want to hear about a juicy God, a creative God, a
relational God, a God that arises when we jump into life and
stop playing it safe, watching it from afar like a passing
train. It’s time for the dancers to tell us what God is. It’s
time for the artists to tell us what God is. It’s time for the
lovers to tell us what God is. We are not here to watch God from
afar. We are here to live God from the inside out."
Jeff Brown - Grounded Spirituality
OMG Frits, thanks for the book recommendation. Loving it!
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