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#Post#: 4205--------------------------------------------------
...
DIR By: j(
Date: October 31, 2018, 2:00 pm
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"There is no greater mystery than this, ourselves being Reality
we seek to gain Reality. We think that there is something hiding
our Reality and that it must be destroyed before Reality is
gained. It is ridiculous.
A day will dawn when you will yourself
laugh at your past efforts. That which will be on the day you
laugh is also here and now."
- Ramana
#Post#: 4207--------------------------------------------------
Re: ...
DIR By: biisuto
Date: October 31, 2018, 6:50 pm
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Lol... it seems its sheer mundanity prevents the
mischief-seeking mind from merely resting in that. There’s this
persistent urge to plant a flag and scream the eternal “ta-DAH!”
every time it is re-discovered anew...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#Post#: 4209--------------------------------------------------
Re: ...
DIR By: j(
Date: November 1, 2018, 9:30 am
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--- Quote from: biisuto link ---
>
> Lol... it seems its sheer mundanity prevents the
mischief-seeking mind from merely resting in that.
>
--- End Quote ---
I dont read much Ramana but the last part reminded me of the
pointing out done in Dzogchen. Simply profound.
It sounds like such a cop out noticing the perfection in each
moment. Like something must happen prior to...then you start the
spiritual seeking in an attempt to "put the mind to rest" or
whatever. But I'm not so sure that the mind isnt resting in it.
As a fellow meditator, I'm sure you understand.
#Post#: 4210--------------------------------------------------
Re: ...
DIR By: biisuto
Date: November 1, 2018, 10:45 pm
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--- Quote from: j( link ---
>
> [quote author=biisuto link=topic=153.msg4207#msg4207
date=1541029826]
> Lol... it seems its sheer mundanity prevents the
mischief-seeking mind from merely resting in that.
>
--- End Quote ---
I dont read much Ramana but the last part reminded me of the
pointing out done in Dzogchen. Simply profound.
It sounds like such a cop out noticing the perfection in each
moment. Like something must happen prior to...then you start the
spiritual seeking in an attempt to "put the mind to rest" or
whatever. But I'm not so sure that the mind isnt resting in it.
As a fellow meditator, I'm sure you understand.
[/quote]
I like flipping through Ramana in the same way as Sri N. I've
followed a Dzogchen teacher on FB for years, Jackson
Peterson...longer than Jed or even ACIM. While much of the
jargon leaves me cold, a lot of what he has shared and the few
actual conversations I've had with him have resonated strongly
here...but for my money (you must be going through this right
now, J) if you want perfection in the moment just spend time
with a toddler and -when you're fully honouring it - observe
your conceptual framework being reduced to the zero point of
here and now.
I got many glimpses of it along the way but missed too much of
it with my own kids in hindsight. I always seemed to be hustling
to juggle between providing, battling with and loving their
mother and pushing ahead with my own young life at the time.
Luckily, grandparenting seems a very cool do-over opportunity.
...LOL...I totally forgot my intended reply here - don't kids
have that effect though?
...oh yeah: meditation. One of the best attributes of a (my?)
meditation practice is the clear separation between awareness
and the mind. There's a subtle discomfort attached to
(especially) preparing to meditate that I've long noted and can
attribute to mind's reluctance to beng observed in all its
visible activity.
And one of the reasons I'm so enamored of Psychology is because,
being a discipline that actively pursues scientific knowledge of
the mind, it is also prone to developing useful tools to help
delve into and better understand it (...and hence my penchant
for Mental Hygiene) both as a student and a former Truth seeker.
#Post#: 4211--------------------------------------------------
Re: ...
DIR By: j(
Date: November 2, 2018, 9:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: biisuto link ---
>
> [quote author=j( link=topic=153.msg4209#msg4209
date=1541082650]
> [quote author=biisuto link=topic=153.msg4207#msg4207
date=1541029826]
> Lol... it seems its sheer mundanity prevents the
mischief-seeking mind from merely resting in that.
>
--- End Quote ---
I dont read much Ramana but the last part reminded me of the
pointing out done in Dzogchen. Simply profound.
It sounds like such a cop out noticing the perfection in each
moment. Like something must happen prior to...then you start the
spiritual seeking in an attempt to "put the mind to rest" or
whatever. But I'm not so sure that the mind isnt resting in it.
As a fellow meditator, I'm sure you understand.
[/quote]
I like flipping through Ramana in the same way as Sri N. I've
followed a Dzogchen teacher on FB for years, Jackson
Peterson...longer than Jed or even ACIM. While much of the
jargon leaves me cold, a lot of what he has shared and the few
actual conversations I've had with him have resonated strongly
here...but for my money (you must be going through this right
now, J) if you want perfection in the moment just spend time
with a toddler and -when you're fully honouring it - observe
your conceptual framework being reduced to the zero point of
here and now.
I got many glimpses of it along the way but missed too much of
it with my own kids in hindsight. I always seemed to be hustling
to juggle between providing, battling with and loving their
mother and pushing ahead with my own young life at the time.
Luckily, grandparenting seems a very cool do-over opportunity.
...LOL...I totally forgot my intended reply here - don't kids
have that effect though?
...oh yeah: meditation. One of the best attributes of a (my?)
meditation practice is the clear separation between awareness
and the mind. There's a subtle discomfort attached to
(especially) preparing to meditate that I've long noted and can
attribute to mind's reluctance to beng observed in all its
visible activity.
And one of the reasons I'm so enamored of Psychology is because,
being a discipline that actively pursues scientific knowledge of
the mind, it is also prone to developing useful tools to help
delve into and better understand it (...and hence my penchant
for Mental Hygiene) both as a student and a former Truth seeker.
[/quote]
I'm really no expert dzogchen practitioner by any stretch but
can appreciate the cutting through goal oriented practice to
realization of the here and now. Getting rid of the if/then
conditions that the mind likes to formulate and place prior to
the state of completeness. Like you said, meditation creates a
clear separation between mind and the awareness of it and as
such can help you to realize that state even while the mind
seems to be running amok with its judgements and notions of what
should be against what is.
What's practical in that manner is that it has the effect of
sounding it's own alarm when you're aware of its tendencies. Say
that you know that you function better in a state of calm and
poise yet you're suddenly feeling anxious, impatient and rushed
in a situation. It's in that moment that you know you're
believing something that isnt conducive to that goal, the truth
your natural state of wellbeing is being covered in that moment
by the minds interpretation of how it "should be" and so you
naturally create a space between that, take some deep breaths
and recenter. That's what I find extremely helpful and rather
rare.
It's nothing to strive for but rather a way to be able to
recognize that already stable and always available space from
which to operate. The analogy of the television comes to mind.
The normal mode seems to be a total identification with it. Like
someone glued to it that cant stop reacting to it and talking
about it and getting emotionally involved with it. In that
moment you notice the mind like a television left running in the
next room. Nothing to do with it rather than notice it's been
left on and you leave it alone while going about your business.
The effect is to notice that which is already here like Ramana
was talking about rather than being consumed by the incessant
mental commentary.
Just another tool I suppose. None of which help you to escape
the challenge of actually living life which must be embraced
fully and dealt with in a conscious and deliberate manner. I
reckon, I'll have the opportunity to be with an animalistic
little humanoid soon, like, any day now actually. We're excited!
My hope is that by then I'll realize that I'm already the better
person I'm hoping to be by then ;)
#Post#: 4213--------------------------------------------------
Re: ...
DIR By: Plato
Date: November 3, 2018, 7:53 pm
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I don't meditate, every moment feels like it's somewhere between
meditation and contemplation since the "drop". Before that there
was a distinct difference between a meditative state and normal
life, like the difference between waking and sleeping, now it
all feels like one thing.
It seems I am always aware of the dream as just that, I don't
get tricked into engagement anymore (emotionally believing whats
happening matters) the disconnect from a "mind running things"
status was complete I guess, when I awake every morning I am
completely aware of the dual and its functioning, where before
every day was a new tumble into who knew what trauma and
subsequent emotional upheaval...
emotions still arise, they just don't seem to be connected to
the thing that responded to them, some connection was severed
upon direct observation of the void and my non-place in it, it
changed the very fabric of how my normal emotions and responses
played out. Just ended that interplay between the two.
Consequently there seems no need or desire for meditation, it's
basically superfluous to the system.
#Post#: 4215--------------------------------------------------
Re: ...
DIR By: j(
Date: November 3, 2018, 9:52 pm
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I see. Meditation is just...being relaxed in a natural state,
unconsumed by the mind. Highly recommend it.
#Post#: 4217--------------------------------------------------
Re: ...
DIR By: Plato
Date: November 4, 2018, 8:18 am
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--- Quote from: j( link ---
>
> I see. Meditation is just...being relaxed in a natural state,
unconsumed by the mind. Highly recommend it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Perfect, exactly what I was getting at, when mind shut off, the
fan was unplugged, "I" was no longer consumed by mind* nor have
I been since that moment, it became the tool it is, to be used
when needed.
Hence my point, it is the experience here that within that state
of being, meditation is superfluous. Like wanting to go swimming
when you are already in the pool.
* As the analogy goes, the unplugged fan still spins, the
residual motion of a lifetime of spinning, it's been almost 4
years now since the mind quit and there is a consistent calming
that is recognized, a settling, a contentedness that is sensed
as compared to the prior bewilderment and even the initial shock
and otherworldliness of the drop into no mind (or mind no longer
in control). The ripples in the pool after the waterfall ceased
take time to return to still water and that is what seems to be
happening here, continual movement toward stillness, smaller and
smaller ripples within.
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