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       #Post#: 3747--------------------------------------------------
       teaching 
   DIR By: jacoba
       Date: October 23, 2017, 5:36 am
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       I stopped teaching (at  a small coaching institute) a year ago.
       Trans-personal psychology, ACIM, family systems and other
       schools were at the base of this training. First year is about
       the coaches-to-be themselves, their issues, their believes etc.
       Theory and lots of experiential work, exercises to let them
       feel, experience for themselves how things work. Walking the
       talk as they say.
       I quit because I found people want to have their issues, if one
       of them is resolved there's another and another. Or the same
       thing in another context. What else ? People just want to be 'a
       person', and having 'issues' makes sure you are. There's very
       few serious people.
       I saw too that being a 'Coach' was strengthening ego as well.
       It's the bottom line, even when your well-meaning, sincere, well
       taught, aware of your own ego etc etc. Even then.
       I've experienced this myself.
       And then this just was just another group with it's jargon,
       inside crowd, those who belong and feel 'save' in the group.
       Just another one; no offense but Plato's cave is or has been
       just like that. ( and 'so what' you might say )
       To resume: true, people did grow up a little, some more than
       others but they did. But if they did I don't know if it had
       anything to do with what we taught.
       I was disgusted with this, disillusioned,  maybe mostly with all
       the pretensions, like ' this is life changing! ' - so I
       resigned. And I am sincerely grateful for the experience I had
       as a teacher.
       These days -since the beginning of this year-  I work in a
       shelter of the Salvation Army.
       The visitors have no pretensions at all, they don't want to get
       somewhere.  I guess that's the reason why I choose  this
       unlikely place. I remember applying for the job felt like a
       joke.  No theory, I just need to listen to their weird stories,
       nod, exclaim and try to make them laugh a bit and I like that
       part most - making them laugh.
       It's utter chaos all the time. refugees, foreigners, people at
       the edge in any which way ( psychological, health wise, old age)
       some dialect and different languages spoken. They have no
       investment in society whatsoever.  I am like them.
       Some mornings I read something ehh 'holy' ( no bible) and get
       heated discussions, it's crap they sometimes say, and I like
       that, that's being honest. They do not feel the need to hide
       ego, which is often done in so-called spiritual circles. And ego
       can be fascinating.
       I'm playing the role of mother to a bunch of children who
       sometimes are much wiser then anyone gives them credit for.
       I guess I just went from one extreme to another, I do admit to
       being contrary, what's the word, perverse, recalcitrant ( i'm
       using a dictionary, remember I'm dutch. )
       Why am I telling you this ? I don't know. I just do. I'm looking
       at my motives, at what's happening, being surprised at the
       things I apparently do or don't do. I'm finding out that
       shutting up works for me, give no advice, don't tell them
       anything;  I ask questions and listen and find I'm sometimes out
       of my depth which is good for me.  It's kind of lonely but I'm
       comfortable with that.
       #Post#: 3748--------------------------------------------------
       Re: teaching 
   DIR By: biisuto
       Date: October 23, 2017, 8:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts, jacoba.
       hands-on working with people on or beyond the fringes of polite
       society reveals a social strata which exhibits a common,
       satisfying sort of honesty (or at least frankness... even if
       lacking in articulacy sometimes). before i got much interested
       in spirituality or nondual philosophy i did some work with
       addicts and then prison inmates and have thought about it a lot
       since i started in this direction... i’ve wondered many times if
       there’s not some kind of elemental divergence in imaginative
       capacity, that makes such social pariahs simply unable to
       sustain the level of belief required to live the bullshit life
       at the same saturation level that the rest of us seem (only
       relatively) more able to keep up with.... just a thought, but
       i’ve had it many times and am yet unable to really get it out in
       words.
       Thanks again for your post.
       #Post#: 3749--------------------------------------------------
       Re: teaching 
   DIR By: j(
       Date: October 23, 2017, 9:49 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hey Jacoba, thank you for sharing a little bit about yourself. I
       wanted to chat earlier but didnt really have any context.
       Interesting topic though. I recently had a job offer as somewhat
       of a “troubled” youth counselor and have decided NOT to take the
       job for similar reasons as to yours for resigning from your
       position. I know from experience that people must first want to
       change, to help themselves and then sometimes even that is not
       enough. I dont know where the actual tipping point is in which
       there is real progress made. I seem to find myself somewhere in
       between making real strides and going nowhere at all. Its a
       curious thing though, life and growing up, maturing as an adult
       and seeing the utter futility of doing anything whatsoever. As
       for people wanting their lives, their issues, I really couldnt
       agree more. Even those with insufferable circumstances, they
       cling to them with all they are whether they are aware of it or
       not. This is easy to see from a certain elevation but not to
       common a realization. Ive determined that the only point of
       being alive is to  live and that comes with the whole array of
       ...well, “look for yourself” seems the only good way to put it.
       Its bittersweet which is, in my opinion, much better than
       nothing at all.
       That brings me to the whole notion of dissolving the ego. I dont
       want to go too far into it but I believe that its important to
       see through the ego, not to necessarily do away with it entirely
       as commonly portrayed in spirituality circles. Their has been no
       enlightened master that has taught anything and did not still
       have some trace of ego. As long as there is a functioning
       person, there is a personality/ego. Where did we even decide
       that being a person was something to overcome. That is actually
       a great question for anyone who is starting this thing. Rather
       than trying to become an enlightened being I would personally
       suggest that people look at where they became such a heavy human
       and work from there. On their perspectives and definitions. On
       properly dealing with the things that they dont want to look at
       rather than covering them up. The way out is through. Once your
       through there is no need for “practice.” My gosh things can get
       so skewed when your looking for answers out there.
       Thing is, that quest can lead one right back. I came here after
       a brief stint at IGF. I seen almost immediately that Kenneth
       wasnt him. When I got to IGF I was at a decent place of
       understanding having read the trilogy. When I got here I started
       listening to the others. Taking what they had to say with a
       grain of salt. Some things said were more truthish than others
       but what I had to say was absolute and utter bullshit and it
       drove me crazy and I do mean Crazy. We had the whole non dual
       theory debates from top to bottom. Nailed it, in theory, more
       than once ;) But yet there was something missing. It didnt quite
       add up. Here we had several individuals that could teach a class
       on being without ego who were FULL of ego themselves and they
       would quickly debate you if you would suggest otherwise. Go
       figure.
       I dont know what happened. Years of this and suddenly the whole
       charade fell apart. If nothing else we served each other as a
       reflection that we could not otherwise see for ourselves. Now
       days im really just a regular dude living out my days here in
       the states. Its not all rainbows and unicorns over here but
       there is One noticeable difference, an unmistakable presence of
       self reliance that had otherwise not been in the years leading
       up. A good sense of trust in intuition and the innate ability to
       again find YOUR way in the midst of all the noise and
       distraction out there that can bring one to begin asking the
       tough questions in the first place. That is something that cant
       be bought among the many things that are being sold out there.
       My only real practice now is to return again and again to my
       truth. A couple of deep breaths usually do the trick and from
       there “the way” seems a bit clearer. Not sure that can be taught
       but then again I wouldn't be interested. Part of the
       satisfaction of finding yourself is getting lost in the world.
       Even if it seems that very few actually find the way back.
       Best to you.
       #Post#: 3750--------------------------------------------------
       Re: teaching 
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: October 24, 2017, 6:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for the post Jacoba, I think we are all stewing on
       something and sometimes a post from someone else is just the
       right hinge point to allow an expression that otherwise might
       fester.
       Since returning from Italy I've had a bit of an epiphany, I seem
       to desire the cave, the anchorites cave, a place where I can be
       alone, I relish this more than anything and yet I have a job,
       career path that I enjoy, Im not interested in a complete
       disengagement from humanity, (I like good food and a nice bed)
       at least not yet but I believe I may have found the next best
       thing.
       When I got back from europe I decided to embrace jet lag, I
       don't have a boss or a 9to5 job so it was easy to stay on euro
       time. Currently (and for the foreseeable future) I go to sleep
       at about 7 or 8 PM and wake up at 2:30 to 3:30. This gives me a
       solid 5 hours of quality time with no one else seemingly on the
       planet, dead, as if a zombie apocalypse had cleaned out the
       sewer of humanity and I'm the only one left standing, then, 5
       hours later the world awakes, I have given whatever I wanted to
       give, 5 uninterrupted hours and I can now play in the world
       however it appears.
       Today a guy stopped and wanted to buy a van I have for sale, we
       started chatting and he offers to buy lunch, I say sure, after
       lunch I take him all around town and show him whats going on, he
       decides to buy the van, asks if I want to join him on the drive
       to the next town over to get the cash, "sure" next thing after
       about 4 or so hours we are parting ways and he's making plans to
       bring his son down here (they live in Twin Falls Idaho), he
       wants him to move here and we have become very close friends in
       the process... and I got my work done before any of this took
       place. Then, just now, a guy who had called on the van and left
       a message (while I was with the other guy), all I did was text
       him that it had sold, he/she started a bit of a conversation on
       text, normally I'd probably just end it with a "thanks" but it
       seemed he (or she) was making some sort of connection on some
       level so I just played along, it's happening as I type this, and
       it has rolled into a thing where this person feels a connection
       and is calling me tomorrow, "just to chat" honestly I don't know
       how this stuff rolls out but I feel like Jim Carey in "Yes Man"
       I'm just open to the stuff that arises in a way that feels so
       natural, like if I were to be the way I used to be, clipping all
       this stuff off at the bud, that would now feel un-natural...
       Does this make any sense? it feels like rambling... oh well,
       that's it.
       #Post#: 3751--------------------------------------------------
       Re: teaching 
   DIR By: jacoba
       Date: October 25, 2017, 12:12 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: biisuto link ---
       >
       > i’ve wondered many times if there’s not some kind of elemental
       divergence in imaginative capacity, that makes such social
       pariahs simply unable to sustain the level of belief required to
       live the bullshit life at the same saturation level that the
       rest of us seem (only relatively) more able to keep up with....
       just a thought, but i’ve had it many times and am yet unable to
       really get it out in words.
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Thank you Biisuto, your words brought to mind an example of
       this.
       A few days ago some people at the shelter were talking about the
       weather and someone mentioned the weather forecast for the next
       14 days. Then this guy shouted : Fourteen days! I don't believe
       it, they can't do that" and to me:  '' do you believe that ?"
       "ehh  No", I said ( i'm a good liar), "good girl!".
       He's about 70 and has very little education, never argue with
       him; he can use some foul language.  I don't know if this is a
       lack of imaginative capacity,  maybe he wasn't articulate enough
       to say 'why would you want to know what's going to happen the
       next fourteen days? Why this urge for things to be predictable ?
       Be surprised,!'  Some people are less brainwashed than 'normal'
       people, and you can learn to appreciate that, if you've got ears
       to hear.
       J( You said "If nothing else we served each other as a
       reflection that we could not otherwise see for ourselves"  -
       That's a good reason for a platform such as this, finding your
       own blind spots. Maybe that was my reason for posting - my
       former boss phoned me yesterday, he wants me to come back. I
       knew that when I wrote my post. And I put my views on the
       coaching business  a little bit strongly - on purpose. Just to
       see what it looks like.  Does it matter what you do ? Provided
       it gives some joy ?  I'm indeed stewing on something.
       And Plato, I do the same, I sometimes get up at 5 am, just
       because the world is empty and silent. It does something for me,
       there's joy in those hours.
       best to you all, jac
       #Post#: 3752--------------------------------------------------
       Re: teaching 
   DIR By: jacoba
       Date: November 2, 2017, 4:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       if the teacher is ready, students will come.
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