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       #Post#: 3626--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: Frits
       Date: September 18, 2017, 5:11 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: j( link ---
       >
       > At this point I'm quite weary of any one who claims to have
       arrived. That's just not what this is about. It is on going
       until the end. The paradox of being and yet always becoming.
       That's also the fun part.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Using the very popular enlightenment language we all love to
       hate, we could say that no one ever arrives anywhere because
       there is no one to arrive anywhere nor anywhere to arrive.
       I don't believe anyone claiming to have arrived, because, I know
       from personal experience (me at one time being the one claiming
       to have arrived) that you never arrive anywhere, ever. There's
       no such thing as "being done".
       So, anyone claiming to have arrived is obviously talking
       bollocks. It, this thing we call life on planet earth, is an
       ongoing process, an ongoing "thing", that apparently ends when
       you apparently die. Nothing more, nothing less... that's it and
       this is that.
       Well, that's what I think, anyways.  ::)
       #Post#: 3627--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: September 18, 2017, 2:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: j( link ---
       >
       > At this point I'm quite weary of any one who claims to have
       arrived. That's just not what this is about. It is on going
       until the end. The paradox of being and yet always becoming.
       That's also the fun part.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Well, of course I have to express that the experience here
       doesn't resonate with some of this statement. Here, there was a
       constant feeling of anxiety ranging from low level uneasiness to
       all out dread. Shame was a constant companion as was a range of
       anger on a scale from simple defensiveness to all out rage that
       flip flopped off and on to its opposite, a butler-esque
       nicey-ness that was sickening in its efforts at gaining friends
       and influencing others, all to placate the black hole of "me".
       In other words, the machine I had created to protect the child I
       was, still ran the show and "I" had no idea WTF was going on nor
       any idea why life was just a series of disasters, one rolling
       into the next.
       And then, in one horrifying moment, I saw through all of the
       bullish!t that "I" was, it all fell away leaving a "body" within
       which a "consciousness" was just experiencing "this".
       What then do we call this state of being?
       It all just stopped, and for 6 months I just sat around
       experiencing everything without filters, and then life started
       doing its thing and "I" started engaging from this completely
       new space, and its different than it was, no anxiety, no dread,
       no real lows and not many high points either, it's abiding, it
       feels like what they all talk about when they speak of the
       "gate-less gate".
       So yes, there's still the same stuff here, it keeps going on but
       the entity that is engaging that stuff is totally different than
       it once was. I don't know what to call it except by what it
       feels like and it feels like total freedom. The marionette's
       strings are gone, occasionally I stumble on one still attached
       but I just snip it with awareness and thats it. There's nothing
       to it from "here" where "this" resides now but these same things
       were insurmountable from the space where "I" was before.
       Assume it's not real if you want but here it is a "thing"
       because there is a before and after. The term "Awakened" works
       because the before felt like a nightmare and I have none of that
       now (going on 3 years). Calling it "enlightenment" seems
       pretentious and likely a statement by an ego but I honestly feel
       enlightened because what had kept me en-darkened is now gone.
       There is no stickiness with calling it anything that seems to
       describe it, they are just words that try to approximate the
       sensation of living after the disillusion of the belief in ones
       programming, the destruction of the nest built by the ego which
       precipitates a free fall, getting used to free fall takes time.
       And after the dis-integration of all these sticks that make up
       the nest, what is awareness left with?
       What is.
       And what does one, who finds themselves only experiencing What
       Is, then call this state? It's a flat out different place than
       the prior state of being, what do we call it?
       So gentlemen, I think "Done" is a misnomer, "Enlightened" has
       about as many negative connotations as "God" nowadays... Then
       what do we call the state of being that arises from the ashes of
       "I" after seeing through the self? What do we call the end of
       questions and existential fear?
       #Post#: 3628--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: Frits
       Date: September 18, 2017, 4:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Plato link ---
       >
       > So gentlemen, I think "Done" is a misnomer, "Enlightened" has
       about as many negative connotations as "God" nowadays... Then
       what do we call the state of being that arises from the ashes of
       "I" after seeing through the self? What do we call the end of
       questions and existential fear?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       We don't call it anything. Everything that seemingly ended, like
       the questions or the fears, were never really there... we made
       them up. They don't actually end, they are seen through when the
       "I" is seen through. Nothing changed, nothing happened, so we
       don't have to call it anything because it's not a thing.
       #Post#: 3630--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: j(
       Date: September 18, 2017, 4:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well it would be difficult for me to know experiencally what to
       call something without referring to my slice of the pie.
       Obviously none of us are experiencing the same thing. We have
       subjective experiences granted that I has to pretend in "other
       awarenesses" so easy enough there it is, the story of I am
       experiencing this. It's inevitable.
       It's not quite correct to say that it's just pure awareness
       either because pure awareness would be aware of everything at
       the same time would it not? A fragmented pure awareness?
       Self reference can be dropped easy enough but it's my experience
       to say that it's not abiding. Maybe it is for you. What do you
       do when someone walks into the studio looking for Steve?
       I'm not sure if I can say that I'll ever stop engaging the world
       on the level of a human being until there is no being left to it
       and at that point it won't matter but being and becoming seem to
       be the name of the game and the moment that stops Im sure it
       could just simply be called nothing at all. For all intents and
       purposes "it" will just not be at all and I won't be or
       experience or do any of  that.
       Funny. None of us will ever BE dead.
       #Post#: 3631--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: j(
       Date: September 18, 2017, 5:06 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've found that I can get as close to no thing as possible but
       to be aware of anything is still to be aware of something. Not
       no thing. Without "it" this doesn't even happen.
       I never gets the cookie partially because I am that and never
       needed to do anything about it. Thing is it's no longer
       problematic because I stopped making "it" an issue and at that
       point it's pretty enjoyable.
       #Post#: 3632--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: September 18, 2017, 5:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Has anyone read Susanne Seagal's book "Collision with the
       Infinite"? She comes as close as anyone I've ever heard of to
       absolutely losing sense of self, it's an amazing account of what
       it's like to lose the self completely, for her it happened
       without any forewarning, and subsequently she spent 9 years
       trying to figure out what happened, here it happened with a
       pretty clear understand of what was going on so there was a
       settled feeling rather than the terror she felt. I'm guessing
       it's different for everyone but it doesn't mean it's didn't
       happen even tho Nothing happened.
       These are two different experiences and yet, she says quite
       clearly that the body and mind that she once thought were hers
       still went on doing what it always did, answered to Susanne
       (even though she was aware that it wasn't true) she didn't
       understand how the body and mind just kept doing what it did
       without her but it did.
       Here its just not that intense, somewhere down deep I knew
       everything I was, was nothing, but I thought that was just me
       and that everyone else was something to my nothing. I can look
       back and say that about every decision I ever made was somehow
       linked to trying to prove I was "something". Until I went
       looking in another direction and took Jed's swan dive into
       Nothing (actually "I" didn't take a swan dive, an "I" can't go
       into nothing, Grace crapping on my "I" is more accurate)
       So I am constantly aware of this simple fact, when someone walks
       in and asks for Steve, Just like Suzanne Seagal went on with
       life, Steve does as well, I'm aware there's no Steve but I'm
       also aware that the person asking about Steve isn't aware, I
       play the role of Steve, I don't buy one bit of his personal
       bullish!t even tho it still abounds. I understand where he came
       from and how he was created, I more or less put up with his
       programming and "personality" because thats whats here but as I
       continually see through it, it becomes less and less a part of
       Steve in general.
       The fan is winding down. Thats all, but not utilizing a word to
       denote that this place is different from the place where Steve
       ran the show is just playing word games to me, it's silly
       advaita dogmatic rhetoric and nothing more. I don't feel a need
       to delineate an "I" as having arrived at some lofty goal at all,
       but if I am speaking about "this" to someone, I'' use whatever
       term comes closest to explaining experience here.
       #Post#: 3633--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: j(
       Date: September 18, 2017, 5:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What collided with the infinite and wrote about it? The infinite
       itself? Infinite self is a very cool concept. It got me thinking
       (which is what I love about this place and you guys).
       Infinite - limitless or endless in space, extent, or size;
       impossible to measure or calculate.
       Self - a person's essential being that distinguishes them from
       others, especially considered as the object of introspection or
       reflexive action.
       So infinite + self = ?
       I agree all word games to keep one occupied. I find it much
       easier to just go with it. Whatever "it" is :)
       #Post#: 3634--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: j(
       Date: September 18, 2017, 8:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm reading a book by Frederick Dodson at the moment. They are
       demonstrating a line of inquiry that basically exposes all fears
       as a fear of not existing. I've found that to be true in my own
       experience as well but it does it in a way that so silly that it
       makes you realize that everything you've ever resisted in your
       life has been traced back to this subconscious fear. Even the
       denial of own existence is the suppression of pain which is an
       attempt at subverting your death.
       But what if you never will experience non existence?
       #Post#: 3635--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: j(
       Date: September 18, 2017, 8:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I can see the fork in the road guys and...it's okay :)
       :-*
       #Post#: 3641--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Nothing... Really.
   DIR By: biisuto
       Date: September 19, 2017, 6:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       "you never will experience non existence."
       [emoji15][emoji848][emoji4][emoji18]
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