URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Platos Kave
  HTML https://platoskave.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: General Discussion
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 3434--------------------------------------------------
        non-experience experience
   DIR By: zero
       Date: June 18, 2017, 8:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       i was reading an interview with Bart Marshall
       (
  HTML http://www.spiritualteachers.org/bart-marshall),
       about
       realization he says:
       --- Quote ---
       > About ten years ago I was blown away by Nisargadatta’s book, I
       Am That, and it became my “bible.” Five years ago I started
       reading Douglas Harding and dabbling with his experiments, then
       last year [2004] attended a workshop with him in England. On the
       plane ride home from that workshop the experience occurred. Only
       it was not an experience. It was a non-experience experience.
       There was no one there to have an experience.
       >
       > So if I wasn’t there how come I have memories of it and can
       talk about it? I don’t know. It’s just one more aspect of the
       mystery. And it’s all mystery. Anything that’s not mystery is
       misunderstood. As soon as I think I know anything, I’ve strayed
       into error.
       > Here’s a fellow who had a wife, kids, mortgage, job, doubts,
       distractions, successes, and failures — everyday battles that
       you and I can relate to — and found something. Now he’s trying
       to reach out to a few people and be of help.
       --- End Quote ---
       Ok,
       Now can someone help me to understand this quote?
       if he admits that he doesn't know what's happened during his
       realization (?), why the hell claiming that has happened
       something?
       i mean, he can't explain to him-self, he just use the card of
       "mystery". Ok, so what?
       sometime i ask myself, isn't all this realization/enlightenment
       terminology and stories just a story?
       if in dream-land happen something, is just a dream-appearance,
       why took seriously?
       u are trapped in it and you try to comfort yourself in
       spirituality, but matter of fact, nothing really change. You are
       still a prisoner or a simple story-teller in this fu***
       dream-land. Even if you are Jed, Marshall, Ramana, or "God"!
       sorry, but sometimes i lose patience because it appears all
       absurd and pointless.
       maybe is better if i open a thread about "pointless pointing"
       anyway, what do you thing he means here ?
       -->  "On the plane ride home from that workshop the experience
       occurred. Only it was not an experience. It was a non-experience
       experience. There was no one there to have an experience.
       So if I wasn’t there how come I have memories of it and can talk
       about it? I don’t know. It’s just one more aspect of the
       mystery."
       thanks buddies
       #Post#: 3435--------------------------------------------------
       non-experience experience
   DIR By: biisuto
       Date: June 18, 2017, 10:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       hi z, hard to tell from someone else's description. The
       assumption is that the words he chose are accurate to describe
       the phenomenon. if it occurred in the field of my awareness,
       would i describe it the same way?
       my take: spirituality is nonsense- rendered worse in language,
       the basic function of which is contrary to it: to try and
       communicate the sense-able.
       An experience without experiencer is beyond the scope of both
       language and the everyday, making it a huge challenge for the
       egoic, dualistic mind to parse, hard to find words and resulting
       in inaccurate or distorted recall and report.
       An inconvenience with experience is that such outlying events
       don't have readily available terminology and cannot be
       adequately encoded in either memory or language, which is why it
       can never be truly either communicated or recalled and why the
       kind of transcendent moments he describes fade and disappear ...
       like Tenacious D's song "Tribute", memory can only ever allude
       to experience, never evoke more than a fading copy of whatever
       arose in the course of the experience to which it alludes.
       #Post#: 3436--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  non-experience experience
   DIR By: zero
       Date: June 18, 2017, 2:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       yep
       I appreciate your point: " spirituality is nonsense- rendered
       worse in language, the basic function of which is contrary to
       it: to try and communicate the sense-able."
       this guy gives me a valid explanation:
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on-_NZtyBP0
       at some point (51:20) he talks about discontinuity, mentions the
       turya (state of sleep without dreams), to say that everynight we
       all - indistinctly - slip (without remembering or knowing how)
       in the Truth (enlightenment) - a non-experience experience (as
       Bart says).
       Every description is misleading.
       Maybe i've got the point... mhm :-\
       #Post#: 3437--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  non-experience experience
   DIR By: Plato
       Date: June 18, 2017, 11:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hello Zero and welcome to the forum...
       You've been chatting with Biisuto aka Mike and I am obviously
       Plato but aka; know1, sklato and Steve (it can get kind of
       confusing but such is the dream state).
       I'd like to chime in on your posts here but I'm traveling and
       it's late so it will have to be in a day or two but I wanted to
       welcome you here, be sure and read Jed's Enlightenment, the
       Damnedest Thing as it is basically the book that brought all of
       us here and ripped open most of the misconceptions I had about
       what "enlightenment" is/was.
       Cheers,
       Steve
       #Post#: 3438--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  non-experience experience
   DIR By: zero
       Date: June 19, 2017, 10:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       hi know1, skato, Steve!
       i suffer too of MPD (multiple personality disorder), so many
       identities that i don't remember any more whose mine.
       i'm going to devour Jed-stuff as soon as possible (hope some
       days).
       I'm really hungry.
       bon voyage!
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 1