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#Post#: 3434--------------------------------------------------
non-experience experience
DIR By: zero
Date: June 18, 2017, 8:42 am
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i was reading an interview with Bart Marshall
(
HTML http://www.spiritualteachers.org/bart-marshall),
about
realization he says:
--- Quote ---
> About ten years ago I was blown away by Nisargadatta’s book, I
Am That, and it became my “bible.” Five years ago I started
reading Douglas Harding and dabbling with his experiments, then
last year [2004] attended a workshop with him in England. On the
plane ride home from that workshop the experience occurred. Only
it was not an experience. It was a non-experience experience.
There was no one there to have an experience.
>
> So if I wasn’t there how come I have memories of it and can
talk about it? I don’t know. It’s just one more aspect of the
mystery. And it’s all mystery. Anything that’s not mystery is
misunderstood. As soon as I think I know anything, I’ve strayed
into error.
> Here’s a fellow who had a wife, kids, mortgage, job, doubts,
distractions, successes, and failures — everyday battles that
you and I can relate to — and found something. Now he’s trying
to reach out to a few people and be of help.
--- End Quote ---
Ok,
Now can someone help me to understand this quote?
if he admits that he doesn't know what's happened during his
realization (?), why the hell claiming that has happened
something?
i mean, he can't explain to him-self, he just use the card of
"mystery". Ok, so what?
sometime i ask myself, isn't all this realization/enlightenment
terminology and stories just a story?
if in dream-land happen something, is just a dream-appearance,
why took seriously?
u are trapped in it and you try to comfort yourself in
spirituality, but matter of fact, nothing really change. You are
still a prisoner or a simple story-teller in this fu***
dream-land. Even if you are Jed, Marshall, Ramana, or "God"!
sorry, but sometimes i lose patience because it appears all
absurd and pointless.
maybe is better if i open a thread about "pointless pointing"
anyway, what do you thing he means here ?
--> "On the plane ride home from that workshop the experience
occurred. Only it was not an experience. It was a non-experience
experience. There was no one there to have an experience.
So if I wasn’t there how come I have memories of it and can talk
about it? I don’t know. It’s just one more aspect of the
mystery."
thanks buddies
#Post#: 3435--------------------------------------------------
non-experience experience
DIR By: biisuto
Date: June 18, 2017, 10:15 am
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hi z, hard to tell from someone else's description. The
assumption is that the words he chose are accurate to describe
the phenomenon. if it occurred in the field of my awareness,
would i describe it the same way?
my take: spirituality is nonsense- rendered worse in language,
the basic function of which is contrary to it: to try and
communicate the sense-able.
An experience without experiencer is beyond the scope of both
language and the everyday, making it a huge challenge for the
egoic, dualistic mind to parse, hard to find words and resulting
in inaccurate or distorted recall and report.
An inconvenience with experience is that such outlying events
don't have readily available terminology and cannot be
adequately encoded in either memory or language, which is why it
can never be truly either communicated or recalled and why the
kind of transcendent moments he describes fade and disappear ...
like Tenacious D's song "Tribute", memory can only ever allude
to experience, never evoke more than a fading copy of whatever
arose in the course of the experience to which it alludes.
#Post#: 3436--------------------------------------------------
Re: non-experience experience
DIR By: zero
Date: June 18, 2017, 2:22 pm
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yep
I appreciate your point: " spirituality is nonsense- rendered
worse in language, the basic function of which is contrary to
it: to try and communicate the sense-able."
this guy gives me a valid explanation:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on-_NZtyBP0
at some point (51:20) he talks about discontinuity, mentions the
turya (state of sleep without dreams), to say that everynight we
all - indistinctly - slip (without remembering or knowing how)
in the Truth (enlightenment) - a non-experience experience (as
Bart says).
Every description is misleading.
Maybe i've got the point... mhm :-\
#Post#: 3437--------------------------------------------------
Re: non-experience experience
DIR By: Plato
Date: June 18, 2017, 11:51 pm
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Hello Zero and welcome to the forum...
You've been chatting with Biisuto aka Mike and I am obviously
Plato but aka; know1, sklato and Steve (it can get kind of
confusing but such is the dream state).
I'd like to chime in on your posts here but I'm traveling and
it's late so it will have to be in a day or two but I wanted to
welcome you here, be sure and read Jed's Enlightenment, the
Damnedest Thing as it is basically the book that brought all of
us here and ripped open most of the misconceptions I had about
what "enlightenment" is/was.
Cheers,
Steve
#Post#: 3438--------------------------------------------------
Re: non-experience experience
DIR By: zero
Date: June 19, 2017, 10:54 am
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hi know1, skato, Steve!
i suffer too of MPD (multiple personality disorder), so many
identities that i don't remember any more whose mine.
i'm going to devour Jed-stuff as soon as possible (hope some
days).
I'm really hungry.
bon voyage!
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