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       #Post#: 40997--------------------------------------------------
       The Last Jedi (spoiler thread)
       By: Neumatic Date: December 24, 2017, 1:14 pm
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       Lot to unpack here.
       And obviously spoilers, so don't be readin' this thread unless
       you've seen the movie.
       Let's start out with the positives:
       It looks amazing.  Especially in IMAX, I imagine 3D would have
       looked awesome too (I think I'll try to see it in that context),
       but the cinematography really put you into those worlds, nothing
       felt fake or matted in.  The spaceship stuff looked amazing too,
       I think I complained that they weren't in space or spaceships
       that much in TFA, well now there's a whole thing on a starship.
       Oh, and I LOVE Snoke's throne room.  That big red wall?  SO
       Korusawa.  The Red Guys (who I assume are the other Knights Of
       Ren, despite being listed as "The Elite Praetorian Guard") and
       the gold outfit reminded me of the Coppola Dracula in the best
       possible way.
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       The Jedi stuff is interesting, they don't just give us new
       powers (or I would argue new ways of VISUALIZING the powers),
       but by keeping it so close to nature and so on, they stress the
       simplicity of it.  You hear of this ancient Jedi temple, but
       it's an old tree with, what, six books in it.  And doesn't Luke
       say "there's nothing in here you don't already know?"  I love
       that.  It reminds me of Dogma, "you took a good idea and you
       made a RELIGION out of it."  I love the idea that the Force
       belongs to everyone (how could it not? It connects to ALL LIVING
       THINGS), but the way Luke described it sounded more like
       disaffection rather than him finally grasping a simple concept
       and trying like hell to explain it to another person, like how
       water is wet.
       I really thought we were going to get more of a Force
       Renaissance because of that, the idea that the whole religion
       is... well, not false, but a form of control, combined with the
       idea that the Resistance and the First Order were decimated in
       the movie (how beautiful was that shot where ALL those ships
       crack in half?) really made me think we would get a "Golden
       Compass" sort of thing where we just venture straight into
       unknown territory.  Except we double back on good vs evil so we
       can have Luke finally face Kylo.  As much as I like that scene,
       it doesn't feel like the climax to the movie the throne battle
       does.
       Also, if the idea is tearing down old structures, it seems
       really weird to me that Snoke is just some guy.  I would have
       thought he would be an Aeryn Targeryan type, just this overly
       imbred Jedi from ages past who kept his life extended far past
       the breaking point so he could maintain control and keep things
       the way they've always been, doling out approval to Jedi and
       Sith as the sole arbitrator.  Like, a literal expression of
       nobility and blood supremacy that's been the hallmark of both
       Jedi and Sith.  Doubly so when you think about the imagery
       inherent in destroying that big red wall and seeing all of space
       behind it.
       I thought for sure Rey would join Kylo, or they would unlock
       some new power (I could see Kylo being able to kill people just
       by looking at them), something weird and messed up that would
       throw us all for a loop.  Although again, they did intro a lot
       of new abilities, I just thought he would go Avatar mode like
       Thor in Ragnarok.
       Oh, and I totally can see where Mark Hamill is coming from with
       disagreeing with Luke's actions... but at the same time, it
       still feels like it's true to his character.  He does have
       darkness in him, he's arrogant... I can see him having a moment
       of weakness that would bring everything tumbling down.  How
       could he not?  He's human.  We all do things we disagree with.
       The stuff about the stories we tell ourselves and how we fall
       for our own bulls*t was interesting... I like how Finn still has
       this reputation that he feels like he has to live up to, it's
       like a macrocosm of that.  He's not brave, strong, or
       particularly clever... and he's always trying to run away, but
       he's still slowly coming around to that because that's the
       person he wants to be, even if he doesn't know how too yet.
       As for the practical movie, I felt it was paced weird... like, I
       wasn't sure when the first act was over... I don't think that's
       going to be an issue with rewatches, but I couldn't tell where I
       was.  There wasn't enough segmentation of the sequences for
       there to give you a sense of momentum, you know?  The Rose/Finn
       stuff moved the most places, but it didn't feel like enough
       because it wasn't the A storyline (it's hard to tell which was
       the A storyline, actually).  And it felt weird that "we have
       just a few hours, we can go on TWO missions?"  That felt
       strange.  It would have made more sense if they weren't with the
       fleet to start with, if they had been marooned or were bringing
       up the rear, that might have felt more natural... having to race
       against time to go in one direction instead of doing a donut.
       Or it could have taken place over, I dunno, more than a few
       days?  Like months, perhaps?
       I can't really dissent structure properly b/c it was a one-time
       viewing with no time bar or anything to refer to, it just felt
       kind of blob-like to me.  Visually there's a nice progression
       with the ships, how the Resistance fleet gets smaller and
       smaller and the First Order ships get bigger and bigger, but
       it's not enough to sell that progression.
       There's an article on Vox about all the backlash the film
       received,
  HTML https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/18/16791844/star-wars-last-jedi-backlash-controversy<br
       />and it's definitely an interesting read, but here's a block of
       text about the pacing that I thought was worth pointing out.
       [quote=Vox Article]ut when you reach the third act, and the
       thematic impact of this plot clicks into place (as the
       Atlantic’s David Sims has written about here), it becomes more
       impressive within the whole of the film. Put simply, Johnson’s
       film, on a first watch, seems to have a lot of pieces that don’t
       fit, because he’s not planning to make them fit until the film’s
       very end. And that can be taxing to watch.[/quote]
       Also in thoughts to timing, I don't have an issue with "how
       quickly people learn to use the force" now.  Because I realized
       just being aware of it and tapping into it is the big
       breakthrough.  Yeah, there's skill involved in using it or
       fighting with a lightsaber, but I think it's a "once you hear
       it, you can't unhear it" type of thing.  "How did I never notice
       this before?"  The power and balance of the universe suddenly
       becomes big and obvious, that's the trick, and the ones we've
       seen learn it are already a little aware of it.
       I'm glad to see Phasma back so that she and Fin could
       physicalize their beef, but it felt like too little.  Underused,
       just like last time.  And I understand that's due to her working
       on Game Of Thrones, but man it would have been fun if she had
       more **** to do.  Like when Rose and Finn are in prison, and she
       walks in with a couple troopers, that could have been a lot
       scarier than the beach police, right?  Or if she was like a
       Captain Bligh figure to the other stormtroopers now, since Finn
       escaped, ANY hesitation or even HINT of independent thought is
       wiped out.  Couldn't you see a Trooper trip or something, or
       fall out of formation, and she just walks up to them and shoots
       them in the head or whip them or something.  "Let that be a
       lesson to the rest, any deviation is unacceptable."
       The Leia in space thing just looked weird.  The issue is that
       the stuff that establishes that, being able to pull bodies and
       sh*t happens AFTER the scene, so you have no idea what's
       happening.  And given that she survives, what was the point?
       It's cool to see her use the force finally, but it feels so out
       of left field.  Wouldn't it have worked if she could close the
       breach in the wall with her mind?  Like she's holding onto
       something and reaching out?  Wouldn't that have the same effect?
       I dunno.
       I love that Poe got more sh*t to do, but at the same time I
       wanted him to be put through cr*p on a planet b/c after TFA he
       was kind of boasting that he got to just chill in London while
       everyone else was in the desert.  I do like the he finally got
       to meet Rey at the end, that was cute (although I instantly
       imagined him saying "we didn't meet in the last movie.")
       A little thing, Benicio's ship?  Love it.  I have no real idea
       what it looks like, but I love that about the tech in these
       movies, it's almost treated like "yeah, you've seen a starship
       before, it's no big deal."  There's no establishing beauty shots
       like a commercial or anything, it's just there.
       I thought Laura Dern was going to stick around, she seemed like
       the natural replacement for Leia... so it's interesting that
       they didn't go in that direction.  I suppose in the new
       micro-Resistance there isn't a place for someone like that
       anyway, so no big deal, I suppose.
       I have also no issue with Rey's parents being nobodies who don't
       matter, they always said it didn't and it's part of the theme of
       the movie.  If the Force belongs to everyone, it sure as h*ll
       belongs to a literal no one.
       I do wish we would have seen what regular life was like under
       The First Order, it sounds like they control everything but I
       want to know what it looks like.  Also do love that they have
       the writing on their sleeves, very SS.  But I was kind of
       disappointed by the casting.  Something I liked about TFA was
       how many of the First Order were young, too young to remember
       how bad life was under The Empire, so they're making the same
       mistakes again.  Very timely, I think, with the current
       resurgence of Nazism and White Supremacism, so I feel like an
       opportunity was missed there.  The way people were reacting, I
       thought for sure the movie would be blatant about "these people
       are total monsters and if you identify with them, you're f*cked
       up."  Surprised that they didn't do that.
       I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of anything else at the
       moment.  I'm glad I finally saw it (especially on that big big
       screen) with my family... wish other Efe could have come along,
       we'd have been geeking out all night, but alas it wasn't to be.
       Oh well, a good excuse to come back.
       #Post#: 41004--------------------------------------------------
       Re: The Last Jedi (spoiler thread)
       By: Chiprocks1 Date: December 26, 2017, 5:39 pm
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       I've already bookmarked this post until I see the flick.
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