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       #Post#: 1303--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: Erwinfoxjj Date: March 12, 2013, 7:14 am
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       I mean generations are typically used when looking back at
       things. The MG42 was the "next gen machine gun" of its time but
       no one called it that.  The whole concept is very abstract. Yes
       NERA and ERA have different "generations" based on developments
       but you wouldn't find it on a Gen 1 tank unless its been
       retrofitted and then it would still only be an intermediary gen
       1.5 type tank. In the end you can say your tanks are tenth
       generation, it doesn't change the capabilities. And besides,
       according to Knight we are limited to currently widely deployed
       equipments and technologies and since there are no true gen 4
       tanks being fielded, I think we should stick to Rolf Hilmes
       commonly and widely accepted form of classification found in
       Main Battle Tanks since 1945. If I spoke German he has another
       book out on the future battle tank called Kampfpanzer about the
       future MBT's. Unfortunately I don't read German.
       #Post#: 1304--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: PsychoBunni Date: March 12, 2013, 7:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Main Battle tanks only 1/2 existed in 1945. And as per Knights
       rules we can use stuff that is currently in active service.
       #Post#: 1306--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: Erwinfoxjj Date: March 12, 2013, 7:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I dont see your point? Im confused, yes the MBT came about right
       after WW2, and I did say "according to Knight we are limited to
       currently widely deployed equipments and technologies"   Sorry,
       I have been up all night and day so excuse me if I don't follow
       lol
       #Post#: 1309--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: PsychoBunni Date: March 12, 2013, 7:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The only Main Battle tank post WW2 was the Centurion, which at
       the time was officially called a Universal Tank.
       What im trying to get at with Tank generations, is the
       capability advancement, its not just used for looking back. The
       F-22 is right now the only 5th Generation fighter in active
       service, its been in service now for several years. Russia's 5th
       Generation fighter wont be in service till about the 2016 mark.
       Japan probably wont have one till the late 2020s, about
       20someodd years after the F-22.
       What im trying to say is, there is no reason 4th/5th Generation
       tanks cant come into service in 2013. The way I see it is that
       tanks with Manually Operated MGs as standard with gun shields or
       retrofitted with an RCWS and ADS would be one generation, the
       next generation would using RCWS and ADS as standard equipment
       with more urban survivability.
       #Post#: 1310--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: Erwinfoxjj Date: March 12, 2013, 8:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Here, I just pulled this up.
  HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_main_battle_tanks_by_generation
       Now you can see the Gen 1, 2, and 3 MBTs. This is not a complete
       list but covers the biggies. And yes, those are MBT's built
       right after WW2, just because they aren't computerized killers
       doesn't change that. And a Universal Tank is just another term
       for MBT.
       [quote author=PsychoBunni link=topic=131.msg1309#msg1309
       date=1363092607]
       The way I see it is that tanks with Manually Operated MGs as
       standard with gun shields or retrofitted with an RCWS and ADS
       would be one generation, the next generation would using RCWS
       and ADS as standard equipment with more urban survivability.
       [/quote]
       According to the generally accepted real world guidelines, if
       its retrofitted it is intermediary, not its own generation. The
       M1 with the TUSK package is Gen 3.5 not Gen 4.
       Also Gen 5 tanks I imagine having crazy powered armour with a
       THALE type system that shoots down incoming rounds with a firing
       system that targets key enemy components without a gunner. Oh,
       and its called Optimus Prime ;)
       But now we come back full circle to the fact that it doesn't
       matter two squirrel nuts whether you call it gen 4 or I call it
       gen 10, its a broad and relatively undefined classification
       system used primarily by historians and the media. A mere
       upgrade in one or two areas does not constitute a new
       generation. Show me that your tank, using current technology
       that's not in prototype or used by only one unit this one time,
       and we can actually put in a generation of MBT. The M1A3 will be
       Gen 3 unless it really implements some brand spanking new shit
       other than more upgrades. Fiber optic cables and Active Defense
       Systems wont be enough to
       #Post#: 1313--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: ComradeSoldat Date: March 12, 2013, 1:17 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       well, seeing as my nation is either urban, farmlands or jungles,
       i'm probably going to use Medium or Light Tank to equip my army
       (still looking for some to import..).
       Though, if we start getting into Tech trees, i still think Mechs
       bigger then a bomb squad robot Should be allowed, As long as
       they Aren't like Gundams or Full Metal Panic's M9 units.
       But, back on topic, as of 2013 i don't really see a need for
       4th generation tech when 3rd generation tanks are just fine.
       #Post#: 1314--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: Moriskov Date: March 12, 2013, 1:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=ComradeSoldat link=topic=131.msg1313#msg1313
       date=1363112265]
       well, seeing as my nation is either urban, farmlands or jungles,
       i'm probably going to use Medium or Light Tank to equip my army
       (still looking for some to import..).
       Though, if we start getting into Tech trees, i still think Mechs
       bigger then a bomb squad robot Should be allowed, As long as
       they Aren't like Gundams or Full Metal Panic's M9 units.
       But, back on topic, as of 2013 i don't really see a need for
       4th generation tech when 3rd generation tanks are just fine.
       [/quote]
       If you are interested, I have like so many tank designs it's not
       even funny. Just tell me what ya want and I can find
       something... or you just buy some of the tanks I posted up on
       the market page.
       #Post#: 1319--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: PsychoBunni Date: March 12, 2013, 3:25 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       M48 And T55 tanks were never called main battke tanks, they werr
       medium tanks. Main battle tanks werent widely adopted until the
       60s. The M1A2 is a 3rd generation main battle tank. Factory
       standatd is manual operated  MGs with no extra armour or
       anything. A better example is the Leopard 2A7. It's completely
       different from the A6. Hell most M1 models were incapable of
       mounting any advanced electronics. As I said earlier, more
       advanced fire control, more remote systems and significantly
       higher survivability over previous generations should constitute
       a new generation tank. It's what every differentiated every
       other generations
       #Post#: 1320--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: Erwinfoxjj Date: March 12, 2013, 3:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Apples and oranges my dear, just because they were never called
       that while in service the record books and history says they are
       MBT's. The differences have to be quite significant. It doesn't
       matter what gen you call your tank. This has been beaten worse
       than a dead horse so lets move on. It doesn't matter what you
       call the generation since this isn't a game, its a nation
       builder with some role-playing aspects.
       Moving onto a new idea, how about an International Space
       Program? Loch'Nomere would be more than happy to refine metals
       for use in the program.
       #Post#: 1321--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Ideas
       By: PsychoBunni Date: March 12, 2013, 3:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Nothing called the tanks anything besides mediums. Officially US
       and Canadian and I believe Russian  practice is that M60 is a
       2nd gen tank overall, while being among 1st generation MBTs. The
       official US designations were 76mm light tanks, 90mm mediums and
       the 120mm heavies, all of wich were phased out on the
       introduction of the M60.
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