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#Post#: 66--------------------------------------------------
When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandparent
rule?
By: Simon-613 Date: July 21, 2020, 4:21 pm
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I was reading recently about former Ireland international
defender Peter Boyle who played 5 times for Ireland between 1901
and 1904, and was interested to see that he had a son, Tommy,
who played for Sheffield United and Man Utd in the 1920s.
Tommy Boyle was born in England and didn't win any international
honours. I guess that he probably didn't qualify to play for
Ireland because he was born in England? (I recall that,
similarly, Archie Goodall had to play for Ireland and his
brother for England despite basically being Scottish because
they were born in Belfast and Watford respectively).
I wondered if anyone knows when the parent/grandparent rule came
into force? And, if so, who were the first players to play for
Ireland/Northern Ireland after that rule was introduced?
#Post#: 68--------------------------------------------------
Re: When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandpa
rent rule?
By: jcd Date: July 22, 2020, 5:22 am
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Stuff off the top of my head...
The rules changed regularly, including options such as residency
which allowed Scottish-born Bob Milne to earn a load of caps
back in the day.
Empire-born players seem to have been a bit of a free for all
(South African's were very popular among most of the home
nations through the 1930s-1950s, and we got Barnsley keeper Pat
Kelly)
More recently, Danny Hegan was also Scottish-born and had an
Irish father (I think) but the Home Nations rules at that time
meant while he could play in FIFA/UEFA competitions, he couldn't
play in the British Championships.
I believe Bernard McNally was the first mummy ruler (born in
Shrewsbury, mum from Cookstown) in 1986.
Granny rulers were a few years later, the home nations initially
wouldn't use them while FIFA allowed them.
UK passport holders seem to have been a 90s thing (Maik Taylor &
Trevor Wood to us, Matt Le Tissier and Graeme Le Saux to England
- see also Dele Adebola)
#Post#: 69--------------------------------------------------
Re: When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandpa
rent rule?
By: Clint Date: July 22, 2020, 5:51 am
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I don't think it was something we exploited, in any kind of
organised fashion, until after the '86 World Cup.
The only players I can recall, prior to that, were Jimmy and
Chris Nicholl. I seriously doubt that their inclusion was
anything to do with an IFA recruitment drive. I've no idea how
they got Chris (he probably initiated it himself) but Jimmy was
raised in Rathcoole, in fact he sounds like he never left it.
Post '86 there seems to have been some sort of plan. IIRC Lawrie
Sanchez, Kingsley Black and the two Wilsons were the first
batch.
#Post#: 84--------------------------------------------------
Re: When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandpa
rent rule?
By: Simon-613 Date: July 22, 2020, 4:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=jcd link=topic=27.msg68#msg68 date=1595413345]
Stuff off the top of my head...
The rules changed regularly, including options such as residency
which allowed Scottish-born Bob Milne to earn a load of caps
back in the day.
Empire-born players seem to have been a bit of a free for all
(South African's were very popular among most of the home
nations through the 1930s-1950s, and we got Barnsley keeper Pat
Kelly)
More recently, Danny Hegan was also Scottish-born and had an
Irish father (I think) but the Home Nations rules at that time
meant while he could play in FIFA/UEFA competitions, he couldn't
play in the British Championships.
I believe Bernard McNally was the first mummy ruler (born in
Shrewsbury, mum from Cookstown) in 1986.
Granny rulers were a few years later, the home nations initially
wouldn't use them while FIFA allowed them.
UK passport holders seem to have been a 90s thing (Maik Taylor &
Trevor Wood to us, Matt Le Tissier and Graeme Le Saux to England
- see also Dele Adebola)
[/quote]
Thanks. It's interesting that Bob Milne was selected through
residency. Wonder what the difference was between his situation
and Jimmy Nelson, the Cardiff and Newcastle fullback from the
20s and 30s, who lived in Belfast as a kid but was deemed
ineligible? Maybe just different interpretations in different
decades
I knew about Danny Hegan but not that he wasn't allowed to play
in the British Championships. He was first capped in 1969 so
quite a long gap between that and it becoming a more regular
occurrence in the mid 80s
#Post#: 85--------------------------------------------------
Re: When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandpa
rent rule?
By: Simon-613 Date: July 22, 2020, 4:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Clint link=topic=27.msg69#msg69 date=1595415070]
I don't think it was something we exploited, in any kind of
organised fashion, until after the '86 World Cup.
The only players I can recall, prior to that, were Jimmy and
Chris Nicholl. I seriously doubt that their inclusion was
anything to do with an IFA recruitment drive. I've no idea how
they got Chris (he probably initiated it himself) but Jimmy was
raised in Rathcoole, in fact he sounds like he never left it.
Post '86 there seems to have been some sort of plan. IIRC Lawrie
Sanchez, Kingsley Black and the two Wilsons were the first
batch.
[/quote]
Thanks Clint. I remember that raft of recruits from 86 very
well.
The principle of selecting people through parentage seems to
have become established in Scotland by the 70s, with players
like Bob Wilson (1971) and Bruce Rioch (1975) winning caps. More
controversially, Scotland selected English born Jimmy Wardhaugh
in 1954 although that seems to have been allowed through because
he was born just across the border! Wikipedia states 'for
footballing purposes the Scottish Football Association and the
Football Association considered their shared boundary to be the
River Tweed, allowing Wardhaugh to represent Scotland. His case
was helped by the fact that Berwick Rangers, based to the south
of his Marshall Meadows birthplace, had competed in Scottish
football since 1905'.
#Post#: 214--------------------------------------------------
Re: When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandpa
rent rule?
By: EalingGreen Date: August 11, 2020, 5:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Two (vague) memories - don't hold me to them.
First, there may have been a distinction made between qualifying
via a father and (not) qualifying via a mother? Sounds bizarre,
I know; then again, they banned womens football completely in
the 1920's and didn't recognise it for another half century. But
maybe I'm just imagining that?
Second - and I'm on firmer ground here I think - but there was a
period when qualifying via a grandparent was permitted, but the
IFA declined to take advantage for some time, even while other
countries were steaming ahead with it.
#Post#: 215--------------------------------------------------
Re: When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandpa
rent rule?
By: Ernie Date: August 11, 2020, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=EalingGreen link=topic=27.msg214#msg214
date=1597141550]
Two (vague) memories - don't hold me to them.
First, there may have been a distinction made between qualifying
via a father and (not) qualifying via a mother? Sounds bizarre,
I know; then again, they banned womens football completely in
the 1920's and didn't recognise it for another half century. But
maybe I'm just imagining that?
Second - and I'm on firmer ground here I think - but there was a
period when qualifying via a grandparent was permitted, but the
IFA declined to take advantage for some time, even while other
countries were steaming ahead with it.
[/quote]
Years ago when I was involved in another sport qualification was
allowed via father but not mother. My coach at the time said
most people would be sure who was their mother but proving who
was the father was more difficult.
#Post#: 222--------------------------------------------------
Re: When did footballers start to qualify through parent/grandpa
rent rule?
By: Clint Date: August 11, 2020, 12:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=EalingGreen link=topic=27.msg214#msg214
date=1597141550]
First, there may have been a distinction made between qualifying
via a father and (not) qualifying via a mother?[/quote]
That rings a bell with me.
[quote author=EalingGreen link=topic=27.msg214#msg214
date=1597141550]
Second - and I'm on firmer ground here I think - but there was a
period when qualifying via a grandparent was permitted, but the
IFA declined to take advantage for some time, even while other
countries were steaming ahead with it.[/quote]
Yip. That was down to the Gentleman's agreement between the home
nations IIRC.
I think that went to the wall around the time of the Alan
Kernaghan debacle.
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