DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Orthodox Talk
HTML https://orthodoxtalk.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Catholic Discussions
*****************************************************
#Post#: 320--------------------------------------------------
Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: FaithfulDespiteDoubt Date: October 31, 2014, 6:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]One leading conservative, the Australian Cardinal George
Pell, published over the weekend a homily he had prepared for
the traditional Latin mass at which he started ruminating on
papal authority. Pope Francis, he said, was the 266th pope, “and
history has seen 37 false or antipopes”.
Why mention them, except to raise the possibility that Francis
might turn out to be the 38th false pope, rather than the 266th
real one?[/quote]
Read the rest of the article here:
HTML http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/30/catholic-church-schism-pope-francis-liberal-conservative
#Post#: 364--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: Wandile Date: November 1, 2014, 9:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I doubt there is a schism developing. Rather i just think that
there is an internal crisis in the church. A crisis of
confusion. Hopefully by the general synod when the African
bishops will have a bigger presence, the push for Cardinal
Kaspers proposal will be stopped firmly in its tracks.
Further, the church need more outspoken orthodox bishops and
priests who are not scared to speak the truth even though it may
upset society.
#Post#: 366--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: marc hanna Date: November 1, 2014, 10:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There has been a struggle in the Catholic church for a long time
between conservatism and liberalism (for lack of better terms),
clearly since the counter-reformation (again for lack of a
better term). Without actually commenting on which is right and
which is wrong, it appears generally with how the church should
adapt to changes in society and which elements of tradition are
critical to the faith and which are not.
Often I find, in any of the Traditional churches, no one
perspective is pure; conservatives seek to preserve elements
that are both critical to the faith and not, such that it
alienates younger generations; and liberalists seek to
incorporate new elements to speak to the hearts and minds of
younger generations while compromising some critical elements.
In my opinion, the best course of action is to revisit and
establish firmly once again, that which is dogma and that which
is not, so that individual diocese know what they can be
flexible on and where they can be creative.
#Post#: 409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: FaithfulDespiteDoubt Date: November 1, 2014, 8:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=marc hanna link=topic=76.msg366#msg366
date=1414854967]
There has been a struggle in the Catholic church for a long time
between conservatism and liberalism (for lack of better terms),
clearly since the counter-reformation (again for lack of a
better term). Without actually commenting on which is right and
which is wrong, it appears generally with how the church should
adapt to changes in society and which elements of tradition are
critical to the faith and which are not.
Often I find, in any of the Traditional churches, no one
perspective is pure; conservatives seek to preserve elements
that are both critical to the faith and not, such that it
alienates younger generations; and liberalists seek to
incorporate new elements to speak to the hearts and minds of
younger generations while compromising some critical elements.
In my opinion, the best course of action is to revisit and
establish firmly once again, that which is dogma and that which
is not, so that individual diocese know what they can be
flexible on and where they can be creative.
[/quote]
Yes I share your understanding that this phenomena with
progressive catholics vs Conservative Catholics within the
church started after Ignatius Loyola and the counter
reformation.
Further I do also agree with you that the Pope should try to
fight of the current confusion among Catholics worldwide.
Speaking ex-catedra on the matter and deciding were the church
will go is crucial.
#Post#: 411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: marc hanna Date: November 1, 2014, 10:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate the mention of ex cathedra. So many people fail to
understand what papal infallibility really is.
#Post#: 454--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: stanley123 Date: November 2, 2014, 5:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=FaithfulDespiteDoubt link=topic=76.msg409#msg409
date=1414893037]
[quote author=marc hanna link=topic=76.msg366#msg366
date=1414854967]
There has been a struggle in the Catholic church for a long time
between conservatism and liberalism (for lack of better terms),
clearly since the counter-reformation (again for lack of a
better term). Without actually commenting on which is right and
which is wrong, it appears generally with how the church should
adapt to changes in society and which elements of tradition are
critical to the faith and which are not.
Often I find, in any of the Traditional churches, no one
perspective is pure; conservatives seek to preserve elements
that are both critical to the faith and not, such that it
alienates younger generations; and liberalists seek to
incorporate new elements to speak to the hearts and minds of
younger generations while compromising some critical elements.
In my opinion, the best course of action is to revisit and
establish firmly once again, that which is dogma and that which
is not, so that individual diocese know what they can be
flexible on and where they can be creative.
[/quote]
Yes I share your understanding that this phenomena with
progressive catholics vs Conservative Catholics within the
church started after Ignatius Loyola and the counter
reformation.
Further I do also agree with you that the Pope should try to
fight of the current confusion among Catholics worldwide.
Speaking ex-catedra on the matter and deciding were the church
will go is crucial.
[/quote]The current Roman Catholic Pope is progressive. I
suppose he could make an ex cathedra declaration. But there have
not been many of these recently. In any case, I suspect that
traditionalists in the Roman Catholic Church would not be too
enthusiastic about a declaration on homosexuality or divorce by
this Pope.
#Post#: 458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: FaithfulDespiteDoubt Date: November 2, 2014, 6:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=stanley123 link=topic=76.msg454#msg454
date=1414972105]
[quote author=FaithfulDespiteDoubt link=topic=76.msg409#msg409
date=1414893037]
[quote author=marc hanna link=topic=76.msg366#msg366
date=1414854967]
There has been a struggle in the Catholic church for a long time
between conservatism and liberalism (for lack of better terms),
clearly since the counter-reformation (again for lack of a
better term). Without actually commenting on which is right and
which is wrong, it appears generally with how the church should
adapt to changes in society and which elements of tradition are
critical to the faith and which are not.
Often I find, in any of the Traditional churches, no one
perspective is pure; conservatives seek to preserve elements
that are both critical to the faith and not, such that it
alienates younger generations; and liberalists seek to
incorporate new elements to speak to the hearts and minds of
younger generations while compromising some critical elements.
In my opinion, the best course of action is to revisit and
establish firmly once again, that which is dogma and that which
is not, so that individual diocese know what they can be
flexible on and where they can be creative.
[/quote]
Yes I share your understanding that this phenomena with
progressive catholics vs Conservative Catholics within the
church started after Ignatius Loyola and the counter
reformation.
Further I do also agree with you that the Pope should try to
fight of the current confusion among Catholics worldwide.
Speaking ex-catedra on the matter and deciding were the church
will go is crucial.
[/quote]The current Roman Catholic Pope is progressive. I
suppose he could make an ex cathedra declaration. But there have
not been many of these recently. In any case, I suspect that
traditionalists in the Roman Catholic Church would not be too
enthusiastic about a declaration on homosexuality or divorce by
this Pope.
[/quote]
If this where to happen it would be the very foundation for a
schism.
I can't see Cardinals like Burke and Pell being able to worship
under the same roof as Pope Francis if this occurs and they
shouldn't either IMHO.
Also ex-catedra works both ways I suppose...
#Post#: 545--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: stanley123 Date: November 3, 2014, 3:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=FaithfulDespiteDoubt link=topic=76.msg458#msg458
date=1414973423]
[quote author=stanley123 link=topic=76.msg454#msg454
date=1414972105]
[quote author=FaithfulDespiteDoubt link=topic=76.msg409#msg409
date=1414893037]
[quote author=marc hanna link=topic=76.msg366#msg366
date=1414854967]
There has been a struggle in the Catholic church for a long time
between conservatism and liberalism (for lack of better terms),
clearly since the counter-reformation (again for lack of a
better term). Without actually commenting on which is right and
which is wrong, it appears generally with how the church should
adapt to changes in society and which elements of tradition are
critical to the faith and which are not.
Often I find, in any of the Traditional churches, no one
perspective is pure; conservatives seek to preserve elements
that are both critical to the faith and not, such that it
alienates younger generations; and liberalists seek to
incorporate new elements to speak to the hearts and minds of
younger generations while compromising some critical elements.
In my opinion, the best course of action is to revisit and
establish firmly once again, that which is dogma and that which
is not, so that individual diocese know what they can be
flexible on and where they can be creative.
[/quote]
Yes I share your understanding that this phenomena with
progressive catholics vs Conservative Catholics within the
church started after Ignatius Loyola and the counter
reformation.
Further I do also agree with you that the Pope should try to
fight of the current confusion among Catholics worldwide.
Speaking ex-catedra on the matter and deciding were the church
will go is crucial.
[/quote]The current Roman Catholic Pope is progressive. I
suppose he could make an ex cathedra declaration. But there have
not been many of these recently. In any case, I suspect that
traditionalists in the Roman Catholic Church would not be too
enthusiastic about a declaration on homosexuality or divorce by
this Pope.
[/quote]
If this where to happen it would be the very foundation for a
schism.
I can't see Cardinals like Burke and Pell being able to worship
under the same roof as Pope Francis if this occurs and they
shouldn't either IMHO.
Also ex-catedra works both ways I suppose...
[/quote]There are disagreements and there is schism. When schism
occurs, there is a break in communion. There are deep
disagreements between SSPX and the Vatican, but each side
accepts the other for Holy Communion. I don't see a break in
communion between the Vatican and Cardinal Burke or Cardinal
Pell. Disagreements yes; but schism, no.
#Post#: 551--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: marc hanna Date: November 3, 2014, 3:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Excellent point, many of the fathers agreed to disagree on
things for the sake of unity.
#Post#: 554--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a new schism growing within The Catholic Church?
By: Maria Date: November 3, 2014, 4:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
G. K. Chesterton was a devout Catholic. His writings are
timeless.
[img
height=450]
HTML https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10422519_823368461017599_1435392205194221462_n.jpg?oh=b90fd489222ad72fda9d2890d2eee7ac&oe=54F0104E&__gda__=1424396999_cff137031d364f992e0b0ee9d7fbe5b7[/img]
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page