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#Post#: 780--------------------------------------------------
Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: Handmaiden50 Date: November 10, 2014, 8:13 am
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Two things:
1) At Orthros yesterday I went up with those in attendance to
venerate the Holy Gospels. As a newbie, I'm still trying to
understand how this is done reverently. When it came to my turn
I crossed myself, kissed it and crossed myself again as I went
back to my place. However, I saw others after kissing it
crossing themselves again as they were also bowing their head .
. . not turning their backs to Father, but backing away from
him. (I also saw this after they received the Eucharist - that
once they received they backed away from Father, yet still
facing him) Is this the proper way, as I didn't mean any
disrespect?
2) When venerating icons I am only able to bow. I'm unable to
get down on my knees to do a full prostration. Again, I don't
mean any disrespect and I hope the Lord understands my
limitations.
Any thoughts?
#Post#: 781--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: FaithfulDespiteDoubt Date: November 10, 2014, 9:45 am
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[quote author=Handmaiden50 link=topic=128.msg780#msg780
date=1415628794]
Two things:
1) At Orthros yesterday I went up with those in attendance to
venerate the Holy Gospels. As a newbie, I'm still trying to
understand how this is done reverently. When it came to my turn
I crossed myself, kissed it and crossed myself again as I went
back to my place. However, I saw others after kissing it
crossing themselves again as they were also bowing their head .
. . not turning their backs to Father, but backing away from
him. (I also saw this after they received the Eucharist - that
once they received they backed away from Father, yet still
facing him) Is this the proper way, as I didn't mean any
disrespect?
2) When venerating icons I am only able to bow. I'm unable to
get down on my knees to do a full prostration. Again, I don't
mean any disrespect and I hope the Lord understands my
limitations.
Any thoughts?
[/quote]
I think you're ahead of me when it comes to practising the
Orthodox faith to be honest.
Normally small congregations notice quite fast any new faces/
visitors and they will understand your difficulties and bear
with you.
Also if you have talked to the priest before and he know you are
a newbie then I can't see why he should be offended by your
behaviour.
To behave during the liturgy is the most difficult part of any
conversion.
Also please ask your priest about this the next time you see
him.
He will know the answer to this.
I have only been to a Vesper held in Russian (didn't understand
any of it) and I must have looked like a retard.
I'm so used to cross myself from left to right and so I did
during my attendance there aswell automatically.
Akward was how I felt it during the Vesper.
Anyway I'm heading back this Sunday and I'm nervous about it,
but ey what's the worst thing that could happen?
You are in my prayers.
-FDD
#Post#: 782--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: Maria Date: November 10, 2014, 11:49 am
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That you are now crossing yourself and kissing the icon is
awesome.
I have known some inquirers who sat in the back of the church
and were afraid to approach the priest.
They feared looking like a stranger and worse, feared making
any mistakes. And yes, it was extremely awkward and painful for
them and for us.
We all prayed for them, but their fear and extreme shyness made
it difficult to approach them as they appeared to wall
themselves off.
However, they were watching us and learning. Gradually, over
several weeks, like a flower, they broke free from their
protective buds, and slowly approached the priest. Having
watched what the parishioners did, they imitated them perfectly,
to the joy of everyone!
#Post#: 789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: marc hanna Date: November 10, 2014, 3:08 pm
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On a Sunday, it is actually incorrect to kneel. This is a
common cannon of all three traditional churches, and most people
do not know this. To show reverence to an icon, it normal to
bow your head, kiss the palm side of your fingers and touch the
icon or kiss the icon. This can be done with the mindful prayer
asking the Saint depicted to intercede on your behalf that
Christ will forgive your sins.
On other days of the week we kneel to the floor, but if you are
physically incapable it is ok not to. Bow your head or at the
waste. Many people prefer not to turn their back to the altar
by walking backwards or walking up the side aisles instead of
the centre aisle.
#Post#: 801--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: Handmaiden50 Date: November 10, 2014, 4:25 pm
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[quote author=FaithfulDespiteDoubt link=topic=128.msg781#msg781
date=1415634321]
Also if you have talked to the priest before and he know you are
a newbie then I can't see why he should be offended by your
behaviour.
To behave during the liturgy is the most difficult part of any
conversion.
Also please ask your priest about this the next time you see
him.
He will know the answer to this.
[/quote]
Thank you for your prayers. They are much appreciated!
Father understands where I'm at . . .matter of fact, he is
always telling me not to "over think" things. So, it's all on
me and my "issues" of being concerned about what others are
thinking of me as a newbie (if I'm participating "correctly").
Once in a great while in liturgy (and I don't know why), I'll
catch myself crossing the way we did in the Roman Catholic
church when I was growing up - I'll realize my mistake, find the
humor in it, and just move on! :)
#Post#: 805--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: Handmaiden50 Date: November 10, 2014, 4:35 pm
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[quote author=marc hanna link=topic=128.msg789#msg789
date=1415653715]
On a Sunday, it is actually incorrect to kneel. This is a
common cannon of all three traditional churches, and most people
do not know this. To show reverence to an icon, it normal to
bow your head, kiss the palm side of your fingers and touch the
icon or kiss the icon. This can be done with the mindful prayer
asking the Saint depicted to intercede on your behalf that
Christ will forgive your sins.
On other days of the week we kneel to the floor, but if you are
physically incapable it is ok not to. Bow your head or at the
waste. Many people prefer not to turn their back to the altar
by walking backwards or walking up the side aisles instead of
the centre aisle.
[/quote]
Yes I have heard (or maybe read somewhere) about not kneeling on
a Sunday. Unsure as to why that is. I'm visiting a GOC and
during the consecration of the Eucharist everyone gets down on
their knees, bending over with their head on the floor. I just
remain seated and bend over at the waist and get as low as I can
during this time.
#Post#: 807--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: marc hanna Date: November 10, 2014, 4:43 pm
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Sometimes people get discouraged when they see 90-year-old
ladies prostrating to the ground; but remember, they've being
doing this their entire lives and are used to it.
At the end of the Great Friday service, in the Coptic church we
prostrate to the ground 400 times: 100 times in each direction
N, E, S, and W. My knees can't handle it, so I just keep my
head bowed and cross myself each time instead.
Regarding not kneeling on Sundays, I'll pull up the cannon if I
can find it.
BTW, the Oriental Orthodox cross themselves in the same manner
as the Roman Catholics. It's not wrong, just a different
tradition.
#Post#: 808--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: marc hanna Date: November 10, 2014, 4:50 pm
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Canon 20 from the Acts of Nicea:
Forasmuch as there are certain persons who kneel on the Lord�s
Day and in the days of Pentecost, therefore, to the intent that
all things may be uniformly observed everywhere (in every
parish), it seems good to the holy Synod that prayer be made to
God standing.
#Post#: 809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: Maria Date: November 10, 2014, 4:53 pm
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[quote author=marc hanna link=topic=128.msg807#msg807
date=1415659424]
Sometimes people get discouraged when they see 90-year-old
ladies prostrating to the ground; but remember, they've being
doing this their entire lives and are used to it.
At the end of the Great Friday service, in the Coptic church we
prostrate to the ground 400 times: 100 times in each direction
N, E, S, and W. My knees can't handle it, so I just keep my
head bowed and cross myself each time instead.
Regarding not kneeling on Sundays, I'll pull up the cannon if I
can find it.
BTW, the Oriental Orthodox cross themselves in the same manner
as the Roman Catholics. It's not wrong, just a different
tradition.
[/quote]
Actually, making prostrations is good for us both spiritually
and physically.
I have difficulty arising from prostrations as I get dizzy and
have fallen down, so I have been advised against making them.
In spirit, I wish I could. Lord have mercy.
p.s. I have started a new thread on the Sign of the Cross and
its history.
HTML http://orthodoxtalk.createaforum.com/convert-faith-issues/the-sign-of-the-cross-history-and-different-ways-of-signing/
#Post#: 811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Venerating the Holy Gospels/Prostrations
By: marc hanna Date: November 10, 2014, 5:00 pm
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This is a sacrifice in itself. For various reasons some people
are not able to take part in all the spiritual traditions, such
as prostrating, fasting, or processions. We shouldn't worry
about how we are seen by others for it is God that judges our
hearts.
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