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#Post#: 80--------------------------------------------------
Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 16, 2019, 4:37 pm
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Bonnie, A big reason that slavery ended in the United States
was that free blacks were highly offended by Harriet Beecher
Stowe and her protagonist. Within one year they were speaking
before the Massachusetts State Legislature, demanding to be able
to serve in the militia. And their justification was that they
did not want to have to be like Beecher Stowe's protagonist.
Then when the legislature still denied them, they bought their
own uniforms and formed their own militia. Eventually 180,000
black men would train with rifles and bayonets and would serve
in federal uniform. When Frederick Douglas praised them, he
contrasted them with Beecher Stowe's protagonist. Without this
service, they probably would have been returned to a state of
slavery.
Beecher Stowe had not intended her protagonist to be offensive.
She painted him as a paragon of Christian virtue, tortured to
death, but still not betraying the escapees. But offensive he
still was. She had wanted Whites to accept him as
non-threatening, as already subjugated.
In Nazi Occupied France, resistance emerged, Catholics,
Nationalists, and Marxists from the Spanish Civil War. They
killed both Germans and French Collaborators. When they killed
Germans, other Germans took those places. When they killed
French, no other French took those places. It is only because
of such resistance that France was purged of such collaborators
and treated as one of the four allied powers of Europe.
And then in the Warsaw Ghetto, Jews saw that it was better to
die with honor than without, and so they rose up in the face of
near certain death. This act and others like it today give Jews
something to remember and to look up to.
Bonnie, you do not seem to understand the nature of honor. If
people let bullies pin a completely bogus label to their lapel,
or let psychotherapists talk them out so that they can easily
manipulate them, then they are surrendering their honor.
Usually the primary bullies are the parents, doctors, and school
teachers. Other children are secondary.
And though it is right that LQBTQ members condemn abuses, just
calling for diversity is not the same as taking any and all
steps necessary to secure social and civil standing, and honor.
I know of LQBTQ members who have devoted themselves to
protecting children from religions abuse, and from familial
abuses. Calling for diversity is not at all the same as
directly standing up for ones own personhood and that of
comrades.
Diversity is an idea like tolerance, that rather than enforcing
absolute standards, that one should look the other way and
understand that not everyone can measure up to those standards.
So the standards still remain in place, its just that they are
not always enforced. So no, I do not go along at all with what
you are saying.
The ~mental health~, ~recovery~, and ~neurodiversity~ movements
exist to label and marginalize, because that exonerates any and
all abusers, and it leaves us with a society where everyone is
always worried about their own compliance with normative
standards.
#Post#: 81--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 17, 2019, 4:44 pm
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"Actually, as a member of the LGBTQ community, I can assure you
that yes, we do advocate sexual diversity."
Can you show any links to the LBGTQ community making these calls
for sexual diversity? Can anyone supply such links?
I am going to look into the matter. I hope that the LQBTQ
community advances itself with more than calls for diversity.
Most invoke the Stonewall Rebellion as the example to follow.
And then there had been harassment and threats against this Camp
Sister Spirit in Mississippi. I never remember any calls for
sexual orientation diversity. They treated the whole matter as
one of threats of lethality.
Now, as I was just thinking this morning, it turns out that a
few months ago I had met a man who had been on the Board of
Directors of a prominent local LQBTQ group.
But this acquaintance of mine is a strong believer in ~mental
illness~ and in ~psychotherapy~ He believes that he has ~mental
illness~. He treats this with Crystal Meth, and he believes
that ~psychotherapy~ and ~recovery~ are absolute necessities.
And the group he was a Board Member, as I know it does a lot of
~counseling~ for members of the LGBTQ Community who seem to be
having difficulties.
My last words to this man were, "You are denigrating survivors
with your talk about psychotherapy and recovery." He denies
this, but I finally just walked away from him.
I think now that what I was seeing was this, decades ago the
Middle-Class Family would likely of condemned homosexuality,
seeing it as a violation of the Self-Reliance Ethic.
Now, things have changed, and often the Middle-Class Family will
not condemn homosexuality, so long as there is compliance with
the Self-Reliance Ethic.
And so my acquaintance is like that, an enforcer of the
Self-Reliance Ethic, via psychotherapy and recovery, but also an
outspoken LGBTQ supporter.
And we know that the LGBTQ movement has always had both types.
Some insist on public transexuality and public displays of
affection, because they insist on the same right which
heterosexuals have. While others try to come across as
inoffensive and especially to be seen as employable, thinking
here of things like the Mattachine Society. But what this
latter is doing is aligning itself with the ideologies of the
Middle-Class Family.
Remember at the start of Bill Clinton's Presidency there was
debate about gays in the military, and Clinton just wanted to
flat out lift the ban. So there was testimony before the
Senate. One woman in a white military uniform was talking about
her own experience and her history of service. Strom Thurmond
from South Carolina asked her, "Have you talked to a doctor
about getting help for your problem?"
If the LGBTQ community makes calls for "sexual orientation
diversity", then I say that they are relinquishing their dignity
and they are always going to have to be dealing with people who
say that doctors and therapists can help them with their
problems. And so they had better be ready for the interment
camps.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Pink-Triangle-Nazi-Against-Homosexuals/dp/0805006001/ref=sr_1_1?crid=M1OK6OR21NWE&keywords=the+pink+triangle+the+nazi+war+against+homosexuals&qid=1563396084&s=gateway&sprefix=the+pink+trian%2Caps%2C182&sr=8-1#reader_0805006001
"besides that you are not understanding neurodiversity theoeists
here, and your are very definately not hearing what I am saying"
Well as it stands I had just recently posted a great deal about
this idea of ~neurodiversity~.
Here, 5 posts.
HTML https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/06/good-actually-means-good/#comment-156834
And then here it is, after calling for ~neurodiversity~ we
finally have the promise of a cure, at least a treatment, the
Transcranial Magnet, to make currents flow in the axons of the
nerve cells inside the brain!
HTML https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/07/06/tms1_enl-e295668c2f9e70baa3d00fe41a708346062f8752-s1200.jpg
Bonnie wrote,
"I think PacificDawn, that you have really misunderstood what
neurodiversity theorists are doing. They are not pleading for
anything. They are directly countering a pathology paradigm with
a neurodiversity paradigm."
This Steve Silberman, a proponent of neurodiversity, and one who
finds a hero in Hans Asperger. Asperger signed to send
thousands of children to be euthanized. If he had not been able
to hide his association with the Nazi's, then Apserger would
probably have been executed.
I read your discussion of this Nick Walker.
And:
HTML http://neurocosmopolitanism.com/
Why would anyone accept any kind of a label if they were not
being conned and bullied?
Most of the time children are not really well positioned to take
an absolute stand against their parents, and not when the
parents are backed up by white coats, and not when the child is
being placed in situations which are not safe.
Bonnie did you have a lapel tag in mind, for radical
neurodiversity, not for pathology of course?
You say there are many ways to resist. Do you consider
capitulating to bullies to be a way of resisting?
Would you say that Neville Chamberlain was resisting at Munich?
Why would anyone accept any kind of a stigmatizing label unless
they were being placed under duress and conned?
Bonnie, fortunately not everyone responds to oppression in the
ways that you suggest.
Part1
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zdzf5aQd9k
Part2
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hgU3wvQEho
Part3, the Yellow Star
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BPWoYzphFE
#Post#: 82--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 19, 2019, 7:35 pm
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This is a wretched attempt to attach an Autism / Neurological
Difference label to people, probably often children.
"NW: Exactly. It is not possible to think outside the norm
without building neural pathways in your brain… And every mad
brain is a neurodivergent brain, which is different from
someone’s whose thoughts stay within cultural norms."
The human brain is extraordinarily complex. The idea that just
because someone seems to be tempered a bit differently, or seems
to communicate or think a bit differently, that you can say that
they have a ~neurodivergent~ brain is preposterous.
Sami Timimi insists that there are absolutely no biological
markers to the diagnosis of Autism / Aspergers.
None genetic, none otherwise.
This ~neurological difference~ is a fantasy which has been
created to legitimate the continuing abuse of children and
adults.
You want to pin labels onto people, and when there is zero
evidence for this. And you call this cognitive liberty? You
think people need to accept such a label in order to have
cognitive liberty, in order to legitimate their thoughts?
"Oh, I think differently, I have a neurological difference, and
I am protected by the principle of cognitive liberty."
This is what you want? That is an unconscionable stigmatizing,
and for no legitimate reason.
If I have anything to say about it, this will fought in
courtrooms across the land.
And no I do not go along with any general drug
decriminalization. Such decriminalizations should come on a
case by case basis, and only when there is a long history of it
being impractical to enforce a prohibition. We don't want to
deliberately introduce any new drugs, such as drugs formerly
issues by prescription. The more people on such drugs, the more
problems.
Why Bonnie you would want such a thing I cannot see. Your
thinking seems to be detached from any reality, and rather
driven by I do not know what.
#Post#: 84--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 24, 2019, 4:54 pm
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But usually that "passably acceptable argument", as Bertram
Karon states it, is part of the justification used for writing
the prescription, and getting the client to do the voluntary
ingestions.
I know a man who has been convinced that he has ~Bipolar 2~ and
he has been given ~medications~. First it was just one at a
very low does, but the dosages and the number these lethal drugs
has increased. He even has an extra one which he can ingest
when he feels any anxiety.
He has even talked about suing the county for his original low
dosage. It is less than what the Physician's Desk Reference
specifies.
To me his complaint seems absurd. If one has to ingest such
neurotoxins, then of course you just do the bare minimum. Going
lower than PDR does not do any harm. It is not harmful, unless
one really believes that the drugs are a necessity to go on
living.
But my friend clearly wants these narcotics to mask his
experiences. I tell him to dump them. He always says in
response, "But I want to enjoy my life".
What he seems to mean is that he wants to be drugged into zombie
hood, and this is what he means by enjoying his life.
He wants these drugs to completely mask his negative
experiences.
He then goes on to invoke a negative stereotype of a homeless
man, and he says that the only thing keeping him from becoming
like that, are these drugs.
This is sad. He thinks the drugs keep him "socially
functional". And it is this which I believe Bertram Karon was
calling out when he spoke of "passably acceptable to most people
most of the time".
Its the kind of an idea which you would find in someone who has
totally submitted to the ideas of the ~mental health~ system,
and those being essentially the same as those advanced by the
Middle-Class Family.
And so to make it clear, here what I am referring to is it being
done with people who are already facing huge and ongoing social
harassment, over this imaginary issue of a ~neurological
difference~. To be more clear, it is being directed at those
who have been convinced that they have ~Autism - Aspergers~, but
instead of admitting that this imaginary ailment has no
objective basis, as Sami Timimi says, "no biological markers",
and "Autism does not exist."
And these survivors are being told, in effect, that they can be
made passably acceptable to most people most of the time, by
MDMA.
Now the originator of this, Nick Walker at the California
Institute of Integral Studies in San Francisco, says that it is
to deal with "social anxiety".
Walker and his MIA colleague believe that this ~neurodiverstiy~,
and in a radicalized form, something which there is zero
evidence for, somehow benefit by accepting the label, and by
then proclaiming the doctrine of "Cognitive Liberty".
I consider this to be a high level of abuse, and something which
has to be responded to.
#Post#: 85--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 24, 2019, 6:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Usually the proponents of ~Autism-Aspergers~ are putting up this
idea of ~neurological difference~ to say that ~Autism-Aspergers~
is not a ~mental illness~ and that it is also not really a
~disorder~ or a ~disability~.
But I hold that it is patently obvious that this is just
capitulation to bullying and labeling. It is absolutely no
one's business how my neurology or your neurology are wired up.
And there is no reason any of us should be subjecting ourselves
to testing or questionnaires, or to have to be advancing such
labels to plead for approval.
That Nick Walker finds people willing to go along with his
~radical neurodiversity~ idea strongly suggests that he is
preying on those who are under duress. They face duress because
of abusive work environments, and most likely because of abuse
school environments, and especially because of their parents.
This Jayne Lytel is a frightening woman. This book is saturated
with the hatred that she and the husband feel for their second
son Leo.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Act-Early-Against-Autism-Fighting/dp/039953394X/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=act+early+against+autism&qid=1564006070&s=gateway&sr=8-3
Here William Stillman explains that there is no epidemic of
autism, there is only an epidemic in demands for hours of
Applied Behavioral Analysis. He calls this "Mommy Guilt".
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Autism-Looking-Spiritual-Secrets/dp/1601630050/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=william+stillman&qid=1564006159&s=gateway&sr=8-5
Majia Holmer Nadesan traces out the history of how the ideas of
Autism and Asperger's could not have existed without universal
schooling, without the mental health system, or without the
eugenics movement. She explains how Yale's lab was started by a
leader in the international eugenics movement. Many of the most
vocal Autism-Asperger's advocates received their ~assessments~
there.
She also goes on to explain what she is calling "Bio-Looping",
meaning just the horrid hatred and othering, sometimes
classified as ~treatment~, which those so labeled are being
subjected to. And of course this makes one more withdrawn, more
fidgety, and more susceptible to further scapegoating.
Most of what is being called ~Autism Aspergers~ seems to amount
this Bio-Looping. according to Majia Holmer Nadesan. But she
does say that there probably was some original difference, but
it is unlikely that anyone will ever be able to know what it is.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415321816/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i1
And then of course we know now that Hans Asperger signed for
thousands of children to be euthanized, only saving the few he
wanted for further study. It was because he was able to hide
his Nazi past that he evaded prosecution.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Aspergers-Children-Origins-Autism-Vienna/dp/0393609642/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=hans+asperger&qid=1564009276&s=books&sr=1-1
Sami Timimi and his coauthors make it clear that they are being
as emphatic as they can in their statement, "Autism does not
exist."
Timimi also says, that what started the perception of difference
could have been something just as simple as a child getting out
to play with age peers a year or so later than the others. He
credits the upsurge in assessments to the rise of Neoliberalism,
particularly in the UK's Tony Blair administration, and also to
psychiatric policing and the resurgence of the eugenics movement
which Neoliberalism has brought.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=sami+tamimi+myth+of+autism&qid=1564007897&s=books&sr=1-1-fkmr0
Peter Breggin has written, originally in 1991, that all of the
US Autism advocacy groups are simply defensive formations of the
parents, needing to prove that autism is real and genetic. But
in fact they haven't proven or disproven anything, except that
there is strength in numbers.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Psychiatry-Electroshock-Biochemical-Theories/dp/0312113668/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=toxic+psychiatry+peter+breggin&qid=1564008250&s=books&sr=1-1
So what it looks like then, as always seems to be the case with
these group targeting's, is that it depends upon members of the
targeted group picking up the mantle and doing it themselves, to
their fellow survivors.
John Elder Robison, Temple Grandin, Nick Dubin, and Alex Plank
are impossible to listen to, once you see what they are really
saying, and what they have internalized.
And this is why free blacks found Harriet Beecher Stowe's
protagonist an outrage, so much so that they made an oblique
reference to him when they demanded of the Massachusetts State
Legislature that they be allowed to serve in the militia. And
when they were denied this, they bought their own uniforms and
started drilling and training themselves.
In France someone who aids oppressors is known as a
collaborator. But in the US, reference is made to Harriet
Beecher Stowe. She wanted Whites to accept him, so being a
Presbyterian Seminary Teacher, she made him a paragon of
Christian virtue. Even tortured to death he would not betray
the escapees. But nor did he ever make any attempt to fight
back, and nor had he ever made any preparations for resistance
or revolt.
So needless to say Bonnie, I find what you and Nick Walker are
doing to be reprehensible and intolerable. And I also find it
to be based on ignorance of the basic issues of oppression and
the necessary struggles to restore honor.
The litmus test for resistance is in the penalties imposed on
perpetrators and in the reparations obtained for survivors, not
in the accommodations made to placate bullies or the pleas for
approval.
I would suggest then that the best place to start is not in
Autism Advocacy, but rather with Frantz Fanon's "Wretched of the
Earth".
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Wretched-Earth-Frantz-Fanon/dp/0802141323/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17D01G7LLIR4I&keywords=wretched+of+the+earth+frantz+fanon&qid=1564010804&s=books&sprefix=wretched+of+the+earth%2Cstripbooks%2C186&sr=1-1
And Fanon was a psychiatrist and director of the psychiatric
hospital, treating both the tortured and the torturers. But by
the end of their independence war, he had resigned his position
and was clearly against psychiatry and any kind of
psychotherapy.
#Post#: 86--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 26, 2019, 4:35 pm
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Joey wrote, " bathe three to four times weekly in sulfur salts,
as my ‘autistic’ liver (a non-psychological organ) does not
process enzymatically without the sulfur I absorb through my
skin, which my ‘autistic’ liver cannot produce on its own. My
brain chemistry works differently – sedatives keep me awake, and
stimulants put me to sleep, much to the chagrin of
anesthesiologists who have had me wake up in the middle of
surgeries in spite of their best efforts."
You are helping to demonstrate what Sami Timimi etal are saying,
"Autism does not exist." Once of the reasons they say this is
that it is so broadly defined as to no longer mean anything.
I have no idea what is going on with your liver or with these
sulfur salts. Sounds like you are in need of some serious
medical treatment right away.
As far as having a different brain chemistry, no one knows that.
Refuting that kind of an idea is the primary focus of this
forum. Whittaker does an excellent job of this.
You also wrote, "Autistics are approaching 25% of live-births
worldwide, and will, within a century, be the “typical” of this
neurodivergent species."
Well that 25%, and of both males and females, is the largest
number I have ever heard. This explosion in the assessment
rates is again one of the factors that Timimi etal point to to
bolster their position, "autism does not exist."
People get marginalized and mistreated, so then medical theories
like Autism-Aspergers give them some hope that eventually
someone will find a reason. But this does not mean that such
reasons have any objective realities.
And no, I do not speak for you, and you have your rights to free
speech, as do I, and as do Timimi etal.
Here, best analysis I have found explaining where the concept of
Autism comes from:
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Autism-Unravelling-Understanding-Social-ebook/dp/B00F2H3EP4
The picture created is simply one of universal schooling,
psychiatry, eugenics, and the middle-class family.
But you Joey are free to say whatever you think. I would just
like to point out that that freedom does not depend upon any
neuro-diversity theory. And tying it to such a theory, is in my
view a big mistake.
What Nick Walker and Bonnie Bustow are doing amounts to telling
people that they have Autism-Aspergers. I consider this to be
reprehensible, and I hope some of us can put out the counter
message, that Autism does not exist.
Sami Timimi book:
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=myth+of+autism+sami+timimi&qid=1564175034&s=digital-text&sr=8-1
Video, Timimi makes it clear that look as they do, there are
still no biological markers:
HTML https://youtu.be/EzL9sAJmz54
Life can be hard, very hard, and all the more so when one is
being targeted and marginalized. What the Autism-Aspergers
label seems to do most is just to exonerate abusers.
Interesting book:
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Far-Tree-Parents-Children-Identity/dp/0743236726/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=Q0KWK69WQ35VZ0MFGZ1H
One chapter deals with autism and the author admits that that is
the singularly most controversial topic in the book, and really
in the entire area of disability studies.
I am sure you know that it was just a few years ago that Arizona
removed 5 children, plus a 6th older child, and pediatricians
had to testify against the own Phoenix Children's Hospital
shrinks who have given the 5 autism assessments. The court
finally agreed that the whole thing was just Munchausen's
Syndrome By Proxy.
And the reason that the head of pediatrics got involved and
pushed this, was she said that they had already fooled hundreds
of doctors, and that now that they were exposed they were likely
to leave the state and just start over somewhere else.
You talk about a "neurodivergent species". Well know one knows
that anything like this could happen. It sounds like you are
just following the eugenics movement, but arguing the opposite
side.
What is true, in my opinion, is that people are starting to
rebel against Muggle Socialization, the schools which do little
more than to use bullying to achieve conformity. Usually
arguments in favor of autism depend upon this type of
socialization, and upon the self-reliance ethic as backdrops.
As far was what drives any "lines of flight", Deleuze and
Guattari say that it is Capitalism which creates schizos. But
as to what creates clinical schizophrenia, that is the mental
health system itself.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0143105825/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i0
Joey, I'm glad that you, someone committed to an autism
identity, posted. I am concerned about this liver condition.
But I also want people, like Bonnie, to see that Autism is not
really different from the concept of Mental Illness. You can't
really argue against either one of them, unless you are prepared
to argue against both of them.
Hey, I am opposed to Muggle Bullying Schools, and I support
people to learn all that they can, books, computers,
electronics, chemistry, mathematics, everything. But as I see
it, this is in no way helped by the concept of Autism. And
neurodiversity, pushed to its logical results, really does not
mean anything. It is something invented by people who are being
subjected to oppression, and it helps the oppressors.
#Post#: 90--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 27, 2019, 4:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No one is saying that Autism is an illness. But then really,
that does not mean anything. We could say that mental illness
is not an illness. Some times ~mental illness~ is used to make
allowances for people, even to get them off for crimes. Other
times ~mental illness~ is used to indict someone, even to
convict them of crimes.
Autism can and does work exactly the same way, and it is used in
these ways regularly.
So why would anyone want to pin a label on themselves?
And why do we want to call for "diversity" when there is no
proof of difference, no benefit obtained by claiming the
difference.
I walk into a café, one guy is talking with his friend, two
women are talking to each other. Another guy is eating food. I
am intending to read a book.
Which one of us needs to call for "diversity" in order to be
accepted as legitimate?
Remember, the first best line of defense when you're legitimacy
is attacked, is the middle finger.
Some people will attack your legitimacy, but packaging it as For
Your Own Good. Again, the middle finger, or harsh toned direct
words, will usually solve that problem.
But some people need lessons in respecting people and their
privacy. So if the middle finger does not work, I will usually
go into Marine Corp Drill Sergeant Mode.
Face 2 face, people do not try to mess around with me.
And so what is this Neurodiverstiy Movement, and things like the
Autism Self Advocacy Network?
Well, it's the Autism version of the Recovery Movement. It's
the survivors of abuse, who have decided that they can build for
themselves an adult identity, by taking the place of the
doctors, and abusing survivors themselves.
Nick Walker, he rejects the high functioning versus low
functioning dichotomy, but why does he feel a need to call for a
~neurological difference~ identity at all?
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0TrcbUyjSM
Walker asks how we deal with Autistic people? Well in the work
place and in community service groups, one finds all sorts of
people, with all sorts of communications styles. So how do you
deal with them? You deal with them no differently than anyone
else. You just have to be tolerant. I don't mean tolerant of
their category of difference, and I don't mean making
presumptions about them. I mean just tolerant of them as they
are.
I want to tell a brief story here, decades ago, for a while I
had an autistic girlfriend. Or rather I should say, I had a
girlfriend who had been convinced that she was autistic.
I was only a year older than she, and she told me about the
institution she lived in. It was only by happenstance that I
met her.
She was not different from anybody else. She was just as
communicative and engage able.
In those days I did not know anything about Autism, other than
as shown in that movie RainMan. And I thought autistics did not
talk at all.
This girl was nothing like that, just like everybody else.
I still though did come to feel that it would be a mistake to
keep seeing her. The issue was simply that I thought it would
be taking advantage of her. Its not that she was disabled in
any way. It was simply the disadvantage, the compromised
personhood which she was experiencing in living in the
institution. She was at a huge social disadvantage, and this
did come across.
Overall I would say that she was guileless. Her feeling were
right there on the surface. I see this as a positive. But I
also know that she would have a hard time in adolescent girl
culture. And then no tight or revealing clothes, no high heels,
no makeup, no bombshell hair. She would be targeted.
But this does not mean that there was anything wrong about her,
or any reason she should have to accept a ~neurological
difference~ label.
There was however one thing which stood out. And I have seen
strange issues related to this in girls before. She had
strabismus in one eye. In my view, particularly with a girl,
that will change how people react to her.
Why did the parents send her to this school? Why did the
parents have her ~accessed~? Were the parents embarrassed by
her, as comes across in many autism narratives? Was she being
targeted in a Muggle Bully School?
She should not have had to have been institutionalized. A well
run communal home would have been better.
#Post#: 92--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 29, 2019, 7:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No one is saying that Autism is an illness. But then really,
that does not mean anything. We could say that mental illness is
not an illness. Some times ~mental illness~ is used to make
allowances for people, even to get them off for crimes. Other
times ~mental illness~ is used to indict someone, even to
convict them of crimes.
Autism can and does work exactly the same way, and it is used in
these ways regularly.
So why would anyone want to pin a label on themselves?
And why do we want to call for “diversity” when there is no
proof of difference, no benefit obtained by claiming the
difference.
I walk into a café, one guy is talking with his friend, two
women are talking to each other. Another guy is eating food. I
am intending to read a book.
Which one of us needs to call for “diversity” in order to be
accepted as legitimate?
Remember, the first best line of defense when you’re legitimacy
is attacked, is the middle finger.
Some people will attack your legitimacy, but packaging it as For
Your Own Good. Again, the middle finger, or harsh toned direct
words, will usually solve that problem.
But some people need lessons in respecting people and their
privacy. So if the middle finger does not work, I will usually
go into Marine Corp Drill Sergeant Mode.
Face 2 face, people do not try to mess around with me.
And so what is this Neurodiverstiy Movement, and things like the
Autism Self Advocacy Network?
Walker asks how we deal with Autistic people? Well in the work
place and in community service groups, one finds all sorts of
people, with all sorts of communications styles. So how do you
deal with them? You deal with them no differently than anyone
else. You just have to be tolerant. I don’t mean tolerant of
their category of difference, and I don’t mean making
presumptions about them. I mean just tolerant of them as they
are.
I want to tell a brief story here, decades ago, for a while I
had an autistic girlfriend. Or rather I should say, I had a
girlfriend who had been convinced that she was autistic.
I was only a year older than she, and she told me about the
institution she lived in. It was only by happenstance that I met
her.
She was not different from anybody else. She was just as
communicative and engage able.
In those days I did not know anything about Autism, other than
as shown in that movie RainMan. And I thought autistics did not
talk at all.
This girl was nothing like that, just like everybody else.
I still though did come to feel that it would be a mistake to
keep seeing her. The issue was simply that I thought it would be
taking advantage of her. Its not that she was disabled in any
way. It was simply the disadvantage, the compromised personhood
which she was experiencing in living in the institution. She was
at a huge social disadvantage, and this did come across.
Overall I would say that she was guileless. Her feeling were
right there on the surface. I see this as a positive. But I also
know that she would have a hard time in adolescent girl culture.
And then no tight or revealing clothes, no high heels, no
makeup, no bombshell hair. She would be targeted.
But this does not mean that there was anything wrong about her,
or any reason she should have to accept a ~neurological
difference~ label.
There was however one thing which stood out. And I have seen
strange issues related to this in girls before. She had
strabismus in one eye. In my view, particularly with a girl,
that will change how people react to her.
Why did the parents send her to this school? Why did the parents
have her ~accessed~? Were the parents embarrassed by her, as
comes across in many autism narratives? Was she being targeted
in a Muggle Bully School?
She should not have had to have been institutionalized. A well
run communal home would have been better.
Louis Theroux’s Video About Autism is really good. But it is
down. Autism is really controversial, and most of the advocacy
has been parents defending themselves, or now this Recovery
Movement version. Theroux’s video was not pro-parents.
Here is his Medicated Kids Video, but it too is not kind to
parents, and the video has been adulterated. Still worth
watching.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezLbzJcr7QQ
Someone believes that they have Autism, then they are an abuse
survivor. It is not necessarily the parents, and they do not
cause Autism. They couldn’t, Autism does not exist.
But convincing someone that they have Autism, or the
Neurological Difference, that is abuse.
People see that “Brain Chemical Imbalance” is nonsense, and so
they refute it.
Why would the same people then go along with “neurological
difference”. It is the same biomedical model, something which
could somehow, scanning electron microscope on brain biopsy
slides, explain human behavior.
Suppose I wrote a book,
“Does Your Child Have Evil Spirits In their Brain?”
“Learn how you can save your child and save yourself.”
And then if I worked with children and parents to promote this,
and real children were harmed, don’t you think I should be sued
for everything I had, if not incarcerated?
Why are people putting up with “neurodiversity” and “radical
neurodiversity”?
I wrote of my short term ~autistic~ girlfriend above. Bad enough
that people were telling her that she had ~autism~, but then to
make it worse by saying that there is some genetic or
neurological basis for it, when there is no evidence for this
anymore than there is of ~Brain Chemical Imbalance~.
Continued from above:
Sure we have an Autism Industry, part of our nationwide nexus of
FixMyKid Doctors. And then we have parents who want to find the
locus of Original Sin in their child, and who have children for
that reason.
But now, these self identifying ~Autistics~ who are promoting
the ideas themselves?
Well, it helps them exonerate perpetrators.
And it does matter how we use it. Like Wittgenstein explained,
there is no such thing as private language. So if you want to
use ~radical neurodiversity~ or ~autism~ in some other way, or
like an emerging species of super humans who are going to take
over the world, that does not mean that I am going to go along
with it.
And I want to reply just a bit to Bonnie here, because I feel
that she really is missing some crucial things. There was this
Magnus Hirschfeld, and here it talks about Roehm’s troops (
Brown Shirts, SA ) destroying the Hirschfeld’s Sex Research
Institute in 1933.
HTML https://books.google.com/books?id=_H2RBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT85&lpg=PT85&dq=magnus+hirschfelder&source=bl&ots=guJxCgzYdA&sig=ACfU3U0rSGZqvYNpy-c969AfjBX_LtPHNQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwid6IWrm9vjAhVWGDQIHUjiDeoQ6AEwAnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=magnus%20hirschfelder&f=false
Well Hirschfeld was at that time the leading thinker on
homosexuality. Though I don’t think he called it that. He
understood homosexuals as a third sex, and this was what he
explained in his books.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Hirschfeld
And there had been this serial child killer Fritz Haarmann in
Hanover Germany. In 1925 he was apprehended and convicted and
executed. But it seemed highly likely that what Haarmann was
convicted of doing actually required a great deal of help, and
coming from the Nazis who controlled Hanover police. Haarmann
was being used as a provoking agent.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haarmann
The populace was terrified of this killer. they sung ditties
about him. There was the claim that remains of murdered children
were being cut up and sold as horse meat. But who ever may have
done that, was getting official assistance.
Haarmann was like their Jeffrey Dahmer.
And so the Nazi’s used all of this to discredit Wiemar tolerance
of homosexuality. In fact, ordinary Germans were somewhat
tolerant of homosexuality, and especially in the big cities.
But when economic times got tough, and people were being told
that homosexuals were the reason, and then this child killing,
then that tolerance went away.
So the Nazi’s used this, and their control of Hanover Police, to
discredit the liberal views of homosexuality.
Magnus Hirshfeld, having no direct evidence about these crimes,
he was brought in as an expert witness to try and discredit the
attacks on homosexuals. But the Nazi’s turned the entire thing
into a show trial, not of Haarmann, but of Wiemar liberalism and
of this “tolerance” approach towards homosexuality. The Nazi’s
won, totally terrifying people about homosexuality. And clearly
this opened the door to their later interment and final
execution of homosexuals.
So I want to draw your attention to this.
1. I am not sure that the word homosexual is entirely neutral
and problem free.
2. Generally a tolerance based approach is stupid, whether it be
for sexual orientation, or this non-sense “neuological
difference”. The only real way is a militant self defending
approach.
3. You or I may use these diagnostic terms and mean no harm, but
I think that is also a mark of ignorance. Autism is today often
used to convey the sense of some sort of disorder and propensity
for extreme violent crime. And like with the Haarmann case,
people who want to can really agitate and inflame the public.
4. You don’t want to be opening doors to labeling. Best to
always meet such labels with a cold like steel refusal, and a
demonstration of willingness to defend self an others.
5. So no, I think people do have to be careful about
“homosexual”, but about “autism and neurodiversity” even more
so. And remember, Hirshfeld thought there really were 3 sexes,
and no one goes along with that today.
Continued from above:
And I have heard accounts of things like this, of a mother
describing how something really deep was set off in her when she
saw the child being on the ground, surrounded and bullied by
other children.
Its like that incident made her forever disown the child, and
may indeed have started the child down the road of not being one
of the herd, of somehow being different. And today he or she
would probably get labeled as ~Autistic~.
And then in Lytel's book there are graphic scenes which show you
how much Lytel and the husband hate their son Leo, and this is
without any white coats or labels in the picture.
And then I did not think of this when I first read Lord of the
Flies, the character Simon. If I had to today pick someone who
is the prototype of what the ~Autism~ proponents are talking of,
it would be him.
He was sitting in a closed thicket, communing with nature. Jack
and his hunters had gotten all worked up chasing a pig. The pig
broke into the thicket, followed by Jack and his people. They
right away turned on Simon, and he was the first boy that they
killed.
No reason is given why they would want to kill Simon, no
deliberation about it, it just happened. I would say that they
killed him because they had already known that he was not really
one of them.
And this book predates most of the ~Autism~ hysteria, and the
book never uses any labels or tries to explain Simon.
Most people are in the herd, and they are of it too. They don't
need to think about it, they probably are not even capable of
thinking about it, they just do what the herd expects.
But some of us are not really of the herd, we think outside of
it.
Autism is nonsense, Autism and Aspergers are just concepts
invented to justify the abuse of children and adults. And I
think it a horrible mistake to be perpetuating and biologizing
these via ~neurological difference~.
Okay, but there are people who for whatever reason seem to have
Mystical Abilities, and often with High Intelligence. Most of
today's people claiming to be ~Autistic~ would probably all into
this category, Mystical Abilities and High Intelligence. Its
just that once someone accepts the idea of ~Autism~ they are
accepting all of its Eugenic Foundations, and this of course
includes the Self-Reliance Ethic.
So for example John Elder Robison and Temple Grandin could be
interesting people, were it not for the fact that their entire
world view is shaped by the need to hold up the Self-Reliance
Ethic and show their unquestioning support for it.
Based on a book I read long ago in college, I would say that
these are the people who are probably going to get made into
Shamans, Mystical Abilities and High Intelligence. And I think
I want to drop the idea of High Intelligence, as that gets to
Lewis Termann and to the same sorts of Mental Hygiene and
Eugenics stuff. If someone is not of the herd, then they will
have high intelligence automatically.
Really it is Mystical Abilities, and that just means not being
of the herd.
Both men and women, but more men.
Book said that in primitive societies adults scrutinize children
for signs of mystical abilities. They value shamans.
When the find one, the first thing they do is separate the child
from the parents. And this does seem to be the key and the life
saving step!
They are placed then under the care of an adult shaman. Their
path to adulthood will be longer and it will entail more risk.
Whereas normals reach adulthood at sexual maturity, a shaman
does not reach adulthood until much later, perhaps as late as
age 30. It might entail vision quests and finding a totem
spirit.
And the life of a shaman will be more risky, usually. People
may feel jealous of the shaman or threatened by the shaman. But
nevertheless, they serve an important roll. But as Shamanism is
probably something which is possible in all of us, and because
it goes way back, so people have an in bread fear of it, or a
fear that their child could go that way. Separation from the
parents is crucial.
A book about esotericism I read said that with most births the
child resembles the parents. But there are some births which
come from above, where the child will not resemble the parents,
and these births are always announced. Citing Isaac, Samuel,
and John the Baptist to name but a few.
So is Shamanism ~Autism~? No it is not. ~Autism~ is a concept
which is perpetuated to justify the abuse of children and
adults.
Where does autism come from, what created it?
Autism is created by
1. Captialism
2. The Middle-Class Family
3. The Self-Reliance Ethic, a capitalist over coding
4. Mental Hygiene and Eugenics Movement
5, and now, Resurgence of Mental Hygiene and Eugenics in
service of Neo-Liberalism
#Post#: 93--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 31, 2019, 4:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Awesome article Bonnie. I can't believe that someone could
write this just in the time since your last article, not unless
you were already highly conversant in these matters.
Now you know that Social Dawinism was a doctrine of the late
19th Century. It got started in the UK, but it really came into
its own though in the US.
And then even with the populist reactionary William Jennings
Bryan, he objected so to Social Darwinism, and to Darwinism
because, being Secretary of State, of the carnage he saw from
WWI. I certainly am not a Creationist, but I can respect
someone who was that deeply influenced by WWI carnage, and saw
it as being related to a low regard for human life.
The kind of Social Darwinism which gets spouted today is a later
development, more pseudo scientific. The idea runs something
like, we have laws of evolution, and these favor the greatest.
But then you have the laws of Democracy, and these substitute
numbers, and so Democracy is counter evolutionary. This one
speech was the key to street brawlers winning the support of the
Business and Finance Sectors, Industry Club in Dusseldorf. This
speech has been printed in books going way back. I only connect
to this kind of a source because it is online.
HTML http://www.der-fuehrer.org/reden/english/32-01-27.htm
And he talks about ~Bolshevism~ as some kind of moral and
genetic degeneracy. He will still be talking like that Nov 1942
as Allied Troops are landing in North Africa. And then in Aug
1943, as Italians are throwing down their rifles and running and
turning against their own Fascists, it's still ~Bolshevism~ and
the ~N-word~. And then in Paris in the weeks following June 6,
1944 the black shirt wearing Vichy Propagandist Philippe Henriot
is screaming into radio that Liberation will not occur in his
lifetime and talking about famine and starvation and using those
same two words, ~Bolshevism~ and the ~N-word~.
And while Berliners might have been tolerant of homosexuality,
and homosexuals had been quite welcomed in the Nazi Party, this
did not mean that the rest of the population shared such views.
Things changed once power was obtained. They blamed the
Reichstag Fire on a homosexual communist and beheaded him. And
then at the end of June 1934, Night of the Long Knives, when
Rohm had expanded the SA to 8 million men and was clearly
threating the Reich, his homosexuality was used as the reason to
kill him.
All of the methods of isolating and stigmatizing, and the all of
the pseudo science used to justify the extermination, were
practiced and perfected on homosexuals and communists, before
these were then applied to larger population segments.
They called people who did not conform to their pseudo science
"Contragenics". There was a continuum, the worst being
homosexuals, but then also including unmarried people, childfree
married couples, and married people with a small number of
children. Only married people with a large number of children
were exempt from this labeling.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Pink-Triangle-Nazi-Against-Homosexuals-ebook/dp/B0058U7HPI/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=pink+triangle+nazi&qid=1564605246&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Some years back there was talk that there could be a "gay gene".
I ask, and especially with all the amniocentesis, is that
really a good way to go?
I doubt that any such gene ever will be located, things just
don't seem to work like that when it comes to human behavior.
But even talking about it, does not seem good to me. Would
LGBTQ activists want to advance the idea of 'Neuro Logical
Difference", "Neuro Divergent", or "Neuro Diversity"? I would
hope not.
In my view, people want these kinds of biomedical explanations
because they have already been so bullied and stigmatized that
they feel that they need something, anything, to legitimate
their own existence.
Ever since the dotcom boom in the 90's, our official and popular
politics has really been just Social Darwinism.
And then here, showing how it took the Eugenics Movement, the
Mental Hygiene Movement, Universal Schooling, and a definite
contribution from the Nazi Party, until you could have the
concepts of Autism and Aspergers.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Constructing-Autism-Unravelling-Understanding-Social/dp/0415321816
And also the ~works~ of Hans Asperger were unknown in the US,
untranslated, until the mid 90's. So people were not getting
~diagnosed~ with ~Aspergers~ in the US, or anywhere in the
English speaking world, until the mid 90's, and ~Autism~ was
still thought of as something more disabling. So I think they
were telling people that they had ~ADHD~ when they seemed to be
somewhat insulated from the Herd.
And then with the rise of Neo-Liberalism, starting in the late
70's with Margaret Thatcher, continuing with Ronald Reagan and
with his right wing economists, and then made into a kind of
social chic during the dotcom boom, you get a vast
popularization of the ideas of Autism and Aspergers, and going
to the concept totally unsupported by any evidence, of
"neurological difference" and then "neurodiversity". I am
convinced that this is a huge mistake.
One of the biggest boosters for the ~New Economy~ and for this
idea that Autism - Aspergers - Neurological Difference being a
chic, was this Wired Magazine, showcasing the business movers
and shakers, and also employing one Steve Silberman.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/NeuroTribes-Legacy-Neurodiversity-Silberman-2015-08-25/dp/B01F7X7SUE/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=steve+silberman&qid=1564602717&s=books&sr=1-2
Sami Timimi and his coauthors are totally opposed to the idea of
~neurological difference~ and for any kind of a computer
industry chic, and they say that the reason for the explosion in
~Autism~ assessments if simply the rise of Neo-Liberalism, Tony
Blair, and the associated desire to dismantle the welfare state.
Timimi calls the move to try and do ~Autism~ accessments,
"Psychiatric Policing~ and a resurgence of the Eugenics
Movement.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Autism-Medicalising-Emotional-Competence/dp/0230545262
Bonnie, it looks to me like there is so much which we are likely
to agree on.
#Post#: 99--------------------------------------------------
Re: Reply to Bonnie B., about honor
DIR By: forbitals
Date: August 2, 2019, 6:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
~Mental illness~ is abuse. The concept is abusive, the so
called treatments are abusive, the stigmatizing and often an
original othering, are abusive. None of us should ever go along
with this. Instead, it should be penalties for perpetrators and
reparations for survivors, as these are about the only way of
restoring public honor.
And we should never support anything which propagates the idea
of mental illness.
This makes mental illness into a joke, and so it is not about
penalties for perpetrators and reparations for survivors.
HTML http://www.torontomadpride.com/what-is-mp/
Bonnie wrote, "...there is a profound difference between the
radical neurodiversity movement and the more mainstream one.
That in the radical one, no one sees the differences in question
as innate or as casual in any way. Moreover, no one in the
neurodiversity movement would see any of the differences alluded
to as the least bit “pathologoical”–an issue that came up i a
few responses to this blog. As I have come to understand it, Why
people in the movement championed the concept of diversity is
precisely because it links them up with other types of
diveristy–sexual diversity, for example, and racial
diversity–and totally rules out the concept of pathology."
~Autism~ is abuse. The concept is abusive, the so called
treatments are abusive, the stigmatizing and often an original
othering, are abusive. None of us should ever go along with
this. Instead, it should be penalties for perpetrators and
reparations for survivors, as these are about the only way of
restoring public honor.
And we should never support anything which propagates the idea
of Autism or Asperger's.
But this "radical neurodiverstiy", rather like the emergence of
a science fiction super human race, makes ~autism~ into a joke,
and so it is not about penalties for perpetrators and
reparations for survivors.
We must oppose this movement.
Penalties for perpetrators and reparations for survivors is not
a difficult concept. It is the way survivors of abuse can
restore their public honor, so that they can again have the
socio-public identity with which it is necessary to function.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYywl-KF4MQ
Radical Neurodiversity and Mad Pride do not constitute
resistance to a Biomedical and Eugenic paradigm, they constitute
subservience to it by making it into a joke. It does not show
that the whole thing is abuse to start with, and it is not about
obtaining redress for abuse.
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