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#Post#: 69--------------------------------------------------
Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 2, 2019, 4:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes Rachel777, I am very glad that you did not harm yourself.
We gain our will to live back, when we start fighting back. We
need to find comrades, and we need to find ways of fighting
back.
I say one of the best is in putting some Psychiatrists and some
Psychotherapists our of business, as well as in finding ways to
make the law protect children instead of perpetrators.
**************************
If someone is a survivor then the course of their life has been
irreparably altered.
While there is no way to undo this, actively fighing back makes
it the perpetrator’s problem. Whereas “live and let live” makes
it still the survivor’s failing.
*****************************
And when people talk about “parenting” they are letting them off
the hook and they are encouraging child exploitation.
“Parenting is a tough job”
Parents often don’t listen the a therapist, but they will listen
to a judge. We cannot let therapists play God, has to be court
supervision.
And the court needs to have realistic options, like something
resembling an Israeli Kibbutz. This should be the norm, not the
exception.
*********************************
Steve, it all goes round and round, the abused become the
abusers.
So where does it stop?
Well people can do all kinds of stupid stuff, and then be
forgiven.
But where we have to draw the line is in using children.
Now, we can’t tell people not to have children. They won’t
listen.
But when they do, and when their are problems, we hold the
parents accountable. They are the ones who are not living up to
their own values, they are the ones who are using pedagogy
manuals to break the wills of children.
No, this could not be punished criminally, but the parents can
still be held accountable financially. No disinheritance, like
it is in other industrialized nations. This will make a big
change. It makes it harder to scape goat a child.
And then we can’t eradicate the middle-class family, but we can
mitigate it. A Kibbutz like Children’s Home, drop in center,
temporary center, and the child having regular experience there.
The reason we don’t have this today is because of the
Self-Reliance Bogus Ethic, because children are being used to
control adults economically, and this is completely unfair to
the children.
And we don’t have such things because they would serve all races
and social classes, and so many are against such.
We can’t change everything, but we can take apart this right so
many feel to use children.
A dependency court judge, a CASA, sometimes also the child
having a lawyer, and therapists cannot operate in isolation,
because they are being hired by parents, so they placate the
parents.
We can take apart this sense of entitlement to use children, and
the justification behind it, in the talk about “parenting”.
********************************************
Steve wrote, “I am not sure you’re really getting what I’m
talking about, and I find your comments here more than a bit
dismissive of my reality. I ABSOLUTELY was encouraged to fully
experience all the pain and confusion and loss that was the
reality of my childhood, with tears and hopelessness and anxiety
and angry swearing and the whole 9 yards.”
No, that’s my whole point, what they are telling you is that
your pain is over things which happened long ago, when this is
completely untrue.
They used to tell minor children who speak of ongoing sexual
abuse that they are imagining. Today if they tried that,
mandatory reporting should land them in prison.
So they do it differently. “Sure I feel your pain, I’m sorry
that happened to you.”
They pretend to be on your side. But really they are not because
their primary position is to get you to accept what has happen
and to seek no redress, and to believe that this was just errors
of the past, old editions of the pedagogy manual.
What they want is for you to be spouting the language of the new
pedagogy manuals, empathy, nurturing, attachment, communications
skills. They want you to be restored to worshipping the Holy
Family, and they want you to side with parents instead of the
children, so that you can then be seen as an adult yourself.
They want you to believe that your pain is over things which
happened long ago, and hence has nothing to do with the present.
In the end they are going to want you to “just get over it”.
This is my own experience, and it is also what is carefully
explained here:
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Against-Therapy-Emotional-Tyranny-Psychological/dp/0689119291/ref=sr_1_4?qid=1562100988&refinements=p_27%3AJ.+Moussaieff+Masson&s=books&sr=1-4&text=J.+Moussaieff+Masson
But the truth is something very different. The pains people feel
are not primarily because of things which happened long ago. But
your therapist does not want you to know this.
The pains you feel are primarily because your social and civil
standing are voided, TODAY. You don’t have a legitimated
biography, and so you are not accepted. So your survival is
being threatened.
When abuse alters the course of your life, and when you won’t
worship the Holy Family, and when your attempts to educate
yourself and develop a career and find long term relationships
have been undermined, you are looked down on.
So this means that you could be considered culpable, even
expendable. So evolution has given us emotional pain, to let us
know that things are not okay.
It is communicated to us in a 1000 ways every day.
Your therapist wants you to ignore this, as they also do.
They want you to stop trying to protect you’re inner core, and
accept the Middle-Class Family. So the therapist does say things
which exonerate the parents.
As where as the Middle-Class Family was not completely able to
break you and make you accept the Self-Reliance Ethic, your
therapist is there to finish the job.
Therapy is extremely manipulative, because it is itself another
form of liberal pedagogy.
*****************************************
Phoebe, Thanks for the comment.
The Kibbutz Movement started because Zionists wanted to return
Jews to the land. And they wanted women to be free from
domesticity.
So they set up these children’s homes.
Sometimes these worked well, and sometimes there were problems.
And some Americans have criticized the Kibbutz Movement.
The biggest reason that its future is in question is simply
because of the rise of the Likud Party and Neo-Liberalism. You
could say, in Israel today, there are lots of ways to make money
because since they have their national sovereignty, they have
courts to protect absentee ownership. So it is no different from
any other industrialized country, like say, the United States.
So it is only a minority who are interested in the Kibbutzes.
And fusing Zionism and Marxism always was a difficult project.
As one writer put it though, the Kibbutzes, never more than 4%
of the population, supply Israel with more than 1/3 of its elite
military, and with 1/2 of its fighter pilots, a disproportionate
share of its agriculture and manufacturing, and town wives
schedule their pregnancies with the openings in the Kibbutz Day
Care Programs.
All I am suggesting is that we need to supply US children with
group homes, and a couple of sets of back up parents. This is
what gives the children citizenship, rather than forcing them to
remain as property. They need to have back up, need to have
other places to go.
The reason we don’t have such today is because children have
always been used to impose a kind of economic regulation on the
parents, and because such a group home and foster program would
serve those of all socio-economic levels and all racial groups.
Many are deeply opposed to this, as they see children as
property and as a source of adult identity.
We can’t eliminate the middle-class family, but we can mitigate
its effects.
#Post#: 94--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 31, 2019, 6:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well some have said that Psychotherapy works well when the
therapist lives in more non-conformist ways than the client.
But this is usually not the case though because the clients tend
to be more socially marginalized, where as the therapist enjoys
a good degree of wealth and legitimation.
I imagine that when David Smale did therapy sessions that they
were more like Philosophical Counseling, and that this new
Diagnostic Manual is intended to steer it more that way.
Please tell me if I am correct.
Okay, but do we really want people making appointments with
counselors of any type? How about peer relationships and
political activism?
If John Brown had consulted with a therapist, would he have
raided Harper's Ferry?
If Huey Newton and Bobby Seale had consulted with a therapist,
would they have founded the Black Panther Party for Self Defense
and then approached Oakland Police while carrying fire arms?
Here Shari Karney, she did see a therapist, but only for a
while. Then she committed herself and worked tirelessly to find
a way around SOL's, finally just having to get the laws changed.
This took about 10 years and involved much conflict. But as
she said on her web page, this is why the US Roman Catholic
Church has had $2 billion in judgments against it.
Excellent made for TV movie:
HTML https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108110/
I believe that is she stayed in therapy, or was the sort of
person who would stay in therapy, then her legal fight never
would have proceeded.
Karney is a survivor of early childhood familial sexual
molestation. And she never was able to sue her own parents.
But she opened the door to all such suits, though most have been
against large institutions. Seems to me that people are still
not ready to deal with abuse within The Family.
But no one would ever accuse Karney of just doing nothing, or of
aiding the perpetrators. She is ferocious.
So I put this forward as a question, and please tell me if I am
wrong or right. Seems to me that a universal among therapists
is that they are not interested in political fights over
anything other than therapy. They are certainly not interested
in revolutionary activities. Their view is that the issues and
the solutions exist between the client's two ears. While they
won't anymore do like Freud and call the client's liars, they
still see the client's basic complaints as being unimportant.
Rather their objective is to help the client learn to live with
thins as they are.
So I ask this as a question, and it is the basis of my claim
that all forms of Psychotherapy revolve around something like
Original Sin.
Other's know more than me have said this about Freud, that it is
all based on a religious world view, and that it comes down the
client being the one who is wrong.
I see Life Coaching as wrong or foolish for the same reasons.
But Life Coaching is likely to be shorter term and of more
narrow focus, and it is not government endorsed.
In the 70's feminist groups would meet and discuss things like
Incest, Rape, and other horrors of a life restricted to
domesticity. They saw these rightly so as political issues.
But in the 80's concern of these issues spread to a broader and
hence more conservative portion of the populace.
Hence, it all became fodder for Therapy and Recovery.
Susan Faludi
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIC4uKSFpL0
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-Cradle-Sexual-Politics-Happened/dp/0201624710
Today I read that psychtherapists say that the number one
concern of millennials is that they will not be able to save
enough money to retire.
Okay, so is their therapist going to change anything?
Why are they not at political meetings and in political protests
and writing political articles, to try and bring this country to
Social Democracy, and to end this politics of private wealth
accumulation and of inflating the stock and real estate markets?
When one emerges from the office of their therapist, what
objective circumstance of their life has changed.
I say, only if you believe in Original Sin, would you say that
something has changed.
Yes, the clients are part of the problem, they seem to always be
attached to reactionary social and political views, and to me
this is the source of their problem.
But you don't find therapy clients leading the charge for legal
redress. In a civilized society wrongs are redressed by law
suits. And most other industrialized countries do not even
allow disinheritance. But try to talk about this with therapy
clients and they are mortified. They don't want to even look at
such ideas, because that would mean breaking out of the fantasy
which therapy has created and seeing just how abusive this world
really is.
I talk online to people from other countries and they talk about
how their parents abused them. I ask them about their countries
inheritance laws, and they have zero knowledge of such. And I
am talking here about even civil law countries where the client
will not even need a lawyer to collect. Therapy has put them
into this world, created by reflected memories made into a story
line, and this is not how cognition works.
Where you find people who want to fight, its in those like Shari
Karney and in those like the Munchausen's Survivor Julie
Gregory, people who very early on excused themselves from
Psychotherapy and Recovery.
Gregory ends her book, not in therapy, but dialing Montana CPS,
because her mother has got a foster child, and a whole new pile
of medical books, and she seems to be doing the same stuff all
over again.
So I feel that the basic premises of therapy is that it is
better to keep it within the therapist's office. If this were
not true, then therapists would have vast experience and
knowledge about legal and political fights.
We want people hooking up with political comrades, people who
are willing to take to the barricades.
What does the therapist think their sessions do, unless they
believe in Original Sin or otherwise have a low opinion of the
client.
Jeffrey Masson says that virtually all of the stuff discussed
with a therapist would be better discussed in some other venue.
#Post#: 95--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 31, 2019, 7:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well some have said that Psychotherapy works well when the
therapist lives in more non-conformist ways than the client.
But this is usually not the case though because the clients tend
to be more socially marginalized, whereas the therapist enjoys a
good degree of wealth and legitimation.
I imagine that when David Smale did therapy sessions that they
were more like Philosophical Counseling, and that this new
Diagnostic Manual is intended to steer it more that way.
Please tell me if I am correct.
Okay, but do we really want people making appointments with
counselors of any type? How about peer relationships and
political activism?
If John Brown had consulted with a therapist, would he have
raided Harper's Ferry?
If Huey Newton and Bobby Seale had consulted with a therapist,
would they have founded the Black Panther Party for Self Defense
and then approached Oakland Police while carrying fire arms?
Would suffragettes in jail have gone on hunger strike, if they
had first consulted with a therapist?
Here Shari Karney, she did see a therapist, but only for a
while. Then she committed herself and worked tirelessly to find
a way around SOL's, finally just having to get the laws changed.
This took about 10 years and involved much conflict. But as
she said on her web page, this is why the US Roman Catholic
Church has had $2 billion in judgments against it.
Excellent made for TV movie:
HTML https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108110/
I believe that if she stayed in therapy, or was the sort of
person who would stay in therapy, then her legal fight never
would have proceeded.
Karney is a survivor of early childhood familial sexual
molestation. And she never was able to sue her own parents.
But she opened the door to all such suits, though most have been
against large institutions. Seems to me that people are still
not ready to deal with abuse within The Family.
But no one would ever accuse Karney of just doing nothing, or of
aiding the perpetrators. She is ferocious.
So I put this forward as a question, and please tell me if I am
wrong or right. Seems to me that a universal among therapists
is that they are not interested in political fights over
anything other than therapy. They are certainly not interested
in revolutionary activities. Their view is that the issues and
the solutions exist between the client's two ears. While they
won't anymore do like Freud and call the client's liars, they
still see the client's basic complaints as being unimportant.
Rather their objective is to help the client learn to live with
things as they are.
So I ask this as a question, and it is the basis of my claim
that all forms of Psychotherapy revolve around something like
Original Sin.
Other's knowing more than me have said this about Freud, that it
is all based on a religious world view, and that it comes down
the client being the one who is wrong.
I see Life Coaching as wrong or foolish for the same reasons.
But Life Coaching is likely to be shorter term and of more
narrow focus, and it is not government endorsed.
In the 70's feminist groups would meet and discuss things like
Incest, Rape, and other horrors of a life restricted to
domesticity. They saw these rightly so as political issues.
But in the 80's concern of these issues spread to a broader and
hence more conservative portion of the populace.
Hence, it all became fodder for Therapy and Recovery.
Susan Faludi
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIC4uKSFpL0
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-Cradle-Sexual-Politics-Happened/dp/0201624710
Today I read that psychotherapists say that the number one
concern of millennials is that they will not be able to save
enough money to retire.
Okay, so is their therapist going to change anything about this?
Why are they not at political meetings and in political protests
and writing political articles, to try and bring this country to
Social Democracy, and to end this politics of private wealth
accumulation and of inflating the stock and real estate markets?
When one emerges from the office of their therapist, what
objective circumstance of their life has changed?
I say, only if you believe in Original Sin, would you say that
something has changed.
Yes, the clients are part of the problem, they seem to always be
attached to reactionary social and political views, and to me
this is the real source of their problem.
But you don't find therapy clients leading the charge for legal
redress. In a civilized society wrongs are redressed by law
suits. And most other industrialized countries do not even
allow disinheritance. But try to talk about this with therapy
clients and they are mortified. They don't want to even look at
such ideas, because that would mean breaking out of the fantasy
which therapy has created with its bad models of cognition, and
seeing just how abusive this world really is.
I talk online to people from other countries and they talk about
how their parents abused them. I ask them about their country's
inheritance laws, and they have zero knowledge of such. And I
am talking here about even civil law countries where the client
will not even need a lawyer to collect. Therapy has put them
into this world, created by reflected memories made into a story
line, and this is not how cognition works.
Where you find people who want to fight, its in those like Shari
Karney and in those like the Munchausen's Survivor Julie
Gregory, people who very early on excused themselves from
Psychotherapy and Recovery.
Gregory ends her book, not in therapy, but dialing Montana CPS,
because her mother has got a foster child, and a whole new pile
of medical books, and she seems to be doing the same stuff all
over again.
So I feel that the basic premise of therapy is that it is better
to keep it within the therapist's office. If this were not
true, then therapists would have vast experience and knowledge
about legal and political fights.
We want people hooking up with political comrades, people who
are willing to take to the barricades.
What does the therapist think their sessions do, unless they
believe in Original Sin or otherwise have a low opinion of the
client?
Jeffrey Masson says that virtually all of the stuff discussed
with a therapist would be better discussed in some other venue.
I have yet to see anything myself which contradicts this.
Deleuze and Guattari say that Psychoanalysis, but meaning
Psychotherapy too, have been created by Captialism and that they
are completely parasitic.
There is this 4 hour BBC documentary, Century of Self. It is a
deep and cutting critique of all forms of Psychoanalysis,
Psychotherapy, and Psychology, and its effect on politics.
They start by showing this Psychoanalysts Ball held annually in
Vienna. People say that because of Psychoanalysis, people can
speak freely. Example, say someone is a maid. If they tried to
complain about this they would be rebuked for not accepting
their social position.
Whereas with Psychoanalysis they are free to say what they feel.
Well, is this really true? A most basic area will be the
exploitation and abuses which are the middle-class family. So
the client starts to speak. But does the therapist really side
with them? Usually the therapist will say things which tend to
exonerate the parents, and which tend to excuse what happened as
being of the past, the old pedagogy manuals.
And Jeffrey Masson writes that it is part of the training to at
a certain point stop listening and shift to drying to get the
client to accept what has happened and to forgive.
And isn't it true that Psychotherapy is just Pedagogy Round 2?
Try to get the client to kneel down and worship the Holy Family,
while acknowledging that there have been mistakes and errors,
and that the old pedagogy manuals were worse than the new ones.
But the client must not see that the entire system is rotten,
and all Pedagogy Manuals are just lessons in how to abuse
children and get away with it. The angry client is to be turned
into a helpless neurotic.
#Post#: 96--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 31, 2019, 7:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well some have said that Psychotherapy works well when the
therapist lives in more non-conformist ways than the client.
But this is usually not the case though because the clients tend
to be more socially marginalized, whereas the therapist enjoys a
good degree of wealth and legitimation.
I imagine that when David Smale did therapy sessions that they
were more like Philosophical Counseling, and that this new
Diagnostic Manual is intended to steer it more that way.
Please tell me if I am correct.
Okay, but do we really want people making appointments with
counselors of any type? How about peer relationships and
political activism?
If John Brown had consulted with a therapist, would he have
raided Harper's Ferry?
If Huey Newton and Bobby Seale had consulted with a therapist,
would they have founded the Black Panther Party for Self Defense
and then approached Oakland Police while carrying fire arms?
Would suffragettes in jail have gone on hunger strike and had to
endure the feeding tube, if they had first consulted with a
therapist?
Here Shari Karney, she did see a therapist, but only for a
while. Then she committed herself and worked tirelessly to find
a way around SOL's, finally just having to get the laws changed.
This took about 10 years and involved much conflict. But as
she said on her web page, this is why the US Roman Catholic
Church has had $2 billion in judgments against it.
Excellent made for TV movie:
HTML https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108110/
I believe that if she stayed in therapy, or was the sort of
person who would stay in therapy, then her legal fight never
would have proceeded.
Karney is a survivor of early childhood familial sexual
molestation. And she never was able to sue her own parents.
But she opened the door to all such suits, though most have been
against large institutions. Seems to me that people are still
not ready to deal with abuse within The Family.
But no one would ever accuse Karney of just doing nothing, or of
aiding the perpetrators. She is ferocious.
So I put this forward as a question, and please tell me if I am
wrong or right. Seems to me that a universal among therapists
is that they are not interested in political fights over
anything other than therapy. They are certainly not interested
in revolutionary activities. Their view is that the issues and
the solutions exist between the client's two ears. While they
won't anymore do like Freud and call the client's liars, they
still see the client's basic complaints as being unimportant.
Rather their objective is to help the client learn to live with
things as they are.
So I ask this as a question, and it is the basis of my claim
that all forms of Psychotherapy revolve around something like
Original Sin.
Other's knowing more than me have said this about Freud, that it
is all based on a religious world view, and that it comes down
the client being the one who is wrong.
I see Life Coaching as wrong or foolish for the same reasons.
But Life Coaching is likely to be shorter term and of more
narrow focus, and it is not government endorsed.
In the 70's feminist groups would meet and discuss things like
Incest, Rape, and other horrors of a life restricted to
domesticity. They saw these rightly so as political issues.
But in the 80's concern of these issues spread to a broader and
hence more conservative portion of the populace.
Hence, it all became fodder for Therapy and Recovery.
Susan Faludi
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIC4uKSFpL0
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-Cradle-Sexual-Politics-Happened/dp/0201624710
Today I read that psychotherapists say that the number one
concern of millennials is that they will not be able to save
enough money to retire.
Okay, so is their therapist going to change anything about this?
Why are they not at political meetings and in political protests
and writing political articles, to try and bring this country to
Social Democracy, and to end this politics of private wealth
accumulation and of inflating the stock and real estate markets?
When one emerges from the office of their therapist, what
objective circumstance of their life has changed?
I say, only if you believe in Original Sin, would you say that
something has changed.
Yes, the clients are part of the problem, they seem to always be
attached to reactionary social and political views, and to me
this is the real source of their problems.
But you don't find therapy clients leading the charge for legal
redress. In a civilized society wrongs are redressed by law
suits. And most other industrialized countries do not even
allow disinheritance. But try to talk about this with therapy
clients and they are mortified. They don't want to even look at
such ideas, because that would mean breaking out of the fantasy
which therapy has created with its bad models of cognition, and
seeing just how abusive this world really is.
I talk online to people who believe in therapy from other
countries, and they talk about how their parents abused them. I
ask them about their country's more favorable inheritance laws,
and they have zero knowledge of such. And I am talking here
about even civil law countries where the client will not even
need a lawyer to collect. Therapy has put them into this film
representation type world, created by reflected memories made
into a story line, and this is not how cognition works.
Where you find people who want to fight, its in those like Shari
Karney and in those like the Munchausen's Survivor Julie
Gregory, people who very early on excused themselves from
Psychotherapy and Recovery.
Gregory ends her book, not in therapy, but dialing Montana CPS,
because her mother has got a foster child, and a whole new pile
of medical books, and she seems to be doing the same stuff all
over again.
So I feel that the basic premise of therapy is that it is better
to keep it within the therapist's office. If this were not
true, then therapists would have vast experience and knowledge
about legal and political fights.
We want people hooking up with political comrades, people who
are willing to take to the barricades.
What does the therapist think their sessions do, unless they
believe in Original Sin or otherwise have a low opinion of the
client?
Jeffrey Masson says that virtually all of the stuff discussed
with a therapist would be better discussed in some other venue.
I have yet to see anything myself which contradicts this.
Deleuze and Guattari say that Psychoanalysis, but meaning
Psychotherapy too, have been created by Captialism and that they
are completely parasitic.
There is this 4 hour BBC documentary, Century of Self. It is a
deep and cutting critique of all forms of Psychoanalysis,
Psychotherapy, and Psychology, and its effect on politics.
They start by showing this Psychoanalysts Ball held annually in
Vienna. People say that because of Psychoanalysis, people can
speak freely. Example, say someone is a maid. If they tried to
complain about this they would be rebuked for not accepting
their social position.
Whereas with Psychoanalysis they are free to say what they feel.
Well, is this really true? A most basic area will be the
exploitation and abuses which are the middle-class family. So
the client starts to speak. But does the therapist really side
with them? Usually the therapist will say things which tend to
exonerate the parents, and which tend to excuse what happened as
being of the past, the old pedagogy manuals.
And Jeffrey Masson writes that it is part of the training to at
a certain point stop listening and shift to trying to get the
client to accept what has happened and to forgive.
And isn't it true that Psychotherapy is just Pedagogy Round 2?
Try to get the client to kneel down and worship the Holy Family,
while acknowledging that there have been mistakes and errors,
and that the old pedagogy manuals were worse than the new ones.
But the client must not see that the entire system is rotten,
and all Pedagogy Manuals are just lessons in how to abuse
children and get away with it. The angry client is to be turned
into a helpless neurotic.
Alice Miller writes about artistic representations of the
Sacrifice of Isaac. Why is Isaac mute and compliant.
She says that if Isaac were to raise his hand against Abraham,
then "that would start the war that we all fear."
Well this is where we see the limitations of Alice Miller. Its
her Psychoanalytic training, its the effects of religion, and I
say that also she was weakened by her experiences in the Warsaw
Ghetto.
She finally wants Isaac to just ask "Why?"
I say that we have to strike back, we have to bring on a
revolution, whether we fear it or not. I do not fear it.
Paul Mones says that most of what we know about familial child
abuse comes from the Richard Janeke patricide case from
Cheyenne Wyoming.
People learn when thing happen, and they happen regularly. And
we all learn when we act. I learned a huge amount from being
intensely involved in a child sexual molestation prosecution.
I say that it never will be like this in the therapist's office,
and that someone is a therapist because they have committed
themselves to the view that it is better to keep it in the
therapist's office. And I see this as being a universal truth.
#Post#: 97--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: July 31, 2019, 7:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well some have said that Psychotherapy works well when the
therapist lives in more non-conformist ways than the client.
But this is usually not the case though because the clients tend
to be more socially marginalized, whereas the therapist enjoys a
good degree of wealth and legitimation.
I imagine that when David Smale did therapy sessions that they
were more like Philosophical Counseling, and that this new
Diagnostic Manual is intended to steer it more that way.
Please tell me if I am correct.
Okay, but do we really want people making appointments with
counselors of any type? How about peer relationships and
political activism?
If John Brown had consulted with a therapist, would he have
raided Harper's Ferry?
If Huey Newton and Bobby Seale had consulted with therapists,
would they have founded the Black Panther Party for Self
Defense, and then approached Oakland Police while carrying fire
arms?
Would suffragettes in jail have gone on hunger strike and had to
endure the feeding tube, if they had first consulted with
therapists?
Would Michel Foucault have gone on to be what he was, if he had
submitted to the national renowned psychoanalyst his parents had
sent him to in the 30's?
Here Shari Karney, she did see a therapist, but only for a
while. Then she committed herself and worked tirelessly to find
a way around SOL's, finally just having to get the laws changed.
This took about 10 years and involved much conflict. But as
she said on her web page, this is why the US Roman Catholic
Church has had $2 billion in judgments against it.
Excellent made for TV movie:
HTML https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108110/
I believe that if she stayed in therapy, or was the sort of
person who would stay in therapy, then her legal fight never
would have proceeded.
Karney is a survivor of early childhood familial sexual
molestation. And she never was able to sue her own parents.
But she opened the door to all such suits, though most have been
against large institutions. Seems to me that people are still
not ready to deal with abuse within The Family.
But no one would ever accuse Karney of just doing nothing, or of
aiding the perpetrators. She is ferocious.
So I put this forward as a question, and please tell me if I am
wrong or right. Seems to me that a universal among therapists
is that they are not interested in political fights over
anything other than therapy. They are certainly not interested
in revolutionary activities. Their view is that the issues and
the solutions exist between the client's two ears. While they
won't anymore do like Freud and call the client's liars, they
still see the client's basic complaints as being unimportant.
Rather, their objective is to help the client learn to live with
things as they are.
So I ask this as a question, and it is the basis of my claim
that all forms of Psychotherapy revolve around something like
Original Sin.
Other's knowing more than me have said this about Freud, that it
is all based on a religious world view, and that it comes down
the client being the one who is wrong.
I see Life Coaching as wrong or foolish for the same reasons.
But Life Coaching is likely to be shorter term and of more
narrow focus, and it is not government endorsed.
In the 70's feminist groups would meet and discuss things like
Incest, Rape, and other horrors of a life restricted to
domesticity. They saw these rightly so as political issues.
But in the 80's concern of these issues spread to a broader and
hence more conservative portion of the populace.
Hence, it all became fodder for Therapy and Recovery.
Susan Faludi
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIC4uKSFpL0
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Rocking-Cradle-Sexual-Politics-Happened/dp/0201624710
Today I read that psychotherapists say that the number one
concern of millennials is that they will not be able to save
enough money to retire.
Okay, so is their therapist going to change anything about this?
Why are they not at political meetings and in political protests
and writing political articles, to try and bring this country to
Social Democracy, and to end this politics of private wealth
accumulation and of inflating the stock and real estate markets?
When one emerges from the office of their therapist, what
objective circumstance of their life has changed?
I say, only if you believe in Original Sin, would you say that
something has changed.
Yes, the clients are part of the problem, they seem to always be
attached to reactionary social and political views, and to me
this is the real source of their problems.
But you don't find therapy clients leading the charge for legal
redress. In a civilized society wrongs are redressed by law
suits. And most other industrialized countries do not even
allow disinheritance. But try to talk about this with therapy
clients and they are mortified. They don't want to even look at
such ideas, because that would mean breaking out of the fantasy
which therapy has created with its bad models of cognition, and
seeing just how abusive this world really is.
I talk online to people who believe in therapy, from other
countries, and they talk about how their parents abused them. I
ask them about their country's more favorable inheritance laws,
and they have zero knowledge of such. And I am talking here
about even civil law countries where the client will not even
need a lawyer to collect. Therapy has put them into this film
representation type world, created by reflected memories made
into a story line, and this is not how cognition works.
Where you find people who want to fight, its in those like Shari
Karney and in those like the Munchausen's Survivor Julie
Gregory, people who very early on excused themselves from
Psychotherapy and Recovery.
Gregory ends her book, not in therapy, but dialing Montana CPS,
because her mother has got a foster child, and a whole new pile
of medical books, and she seems to be doing the same stuff all
over again.
So I feel that the basic premise of therapy is that it is better
to keep it within the therapist's office. If this were not
true, then therapists would have vast experience and knowledge
about legal and political fights.
We want people hooking up with political comrades, people who
are willing to take to the barricades.
What does the therapist think their sessions do, unless they
believe in Original Sin or otherwise have a low opinion of the
client?
Jeffrey Masson says that virtually all of the stuff discussed
with a therapist would be better discussed in some other venue.
I have yet to see anything myself which contradicts this.
Deleuze and Guattari say that Psychoanalysis, but meaning
Psychotherapy too, have been created by Captialism and that they
are completely parasitic.
There is this 4 hour BBC documentary, Century of Self. It is a
deep and cutting critique of all forms of Psychoanalysis,
Psychotherapy, and Psychology, and its effect on politics.
They start by showing this Psychoanalysts Ball held annually in
Vienna. People say that because of Psychoanalysis, people can
speak freely. Example, say someone is a maid. If they tried to
complain about this they would be rebuked for not accepting
their social position.
Whereas with Psychoanalysis they are free to say what they feel.
Well, is this really true? A most basic area will be the
exploitation and abuses which are the middle-class family. So
the client starts to speak. But does the therapist really side
with them? Usually the therapist will say things which tend to
exonerate the parents, and which tend to excuse what happened as
being of the past, the old pedagogy manuals.
And Jeffrey Masson writes that it is part of the training to at
a certain point stop listening and shift to trying to get the
client to accept what has happened and to forgive.
And isn't it true that Psychotherapy is just Pedagogy Round 2?
It promotes the ideology of the family.
Try to get the client to kneel down and worship the Holy Family,
while acknowledging that there have been mistakes and errors,
and that the old pedagogy manuals were worse than the new ones.
But the client must not see that the entire system is rotten,
and all Pedagogy Manuals are just lessons in how to abuse
children and get away with it. The angry client is to be turned
into a helpless neurotic.
In D and G's Anti-Oedipus they have a very funny little skit
which Jacques Lacan had published, making fun of psychoanalysis
over this.
And they quote Antonin Artaud saying something which shows the
neuroticism which Psychoanalysis and Psychotherapy are
predicated on.
D and G call this "Oedipalizing". And the schizo is someone
like Artaud, who cannot be Oedipalized. So of course this is
where the mental health system would really bear down.
Alice Miller writes about artistic representations of the
Sacrifice of Isaac. Why is Isaac always mute and compliant?
She says that if Isaac were to raise his hand against Abraham,
then "that would start the war that we all fear."
Well this is where we see the limitations of Alice Miller. Its
her Psychoanalytic training, its the effects of religion, and I
say that also she was weakened by her experiences in the Warsaw
Ghetto.
She finally wants Isaac to just ask "Why?"
I say that we have to strike back, we have to bring on a
revolution, whether we fear it or not. I do not fear it in any
way at all.
Paul Mones says that most of what we know about familial child
abuse comes from the Richard Janeke patricide case from
Cheyenne Wyoming.
People learn when thing happen, and they happen regularly. And
we all learn when we act. I learned a huge amount from being
intensely involved in a child sexual molestation prosecution.
I say that it never will be like this in the therapist's office,
and that someone is a therapist because they have committed
themselves to the view that it is better to keep it in the
therapist's office. And I see this as being a universal truth.
#Post#: 98--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: August 1, 2019, 5:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The presumption though is that matters should be handled in the
therapist's office. Otherwise the client would not be there,
and the therapist would not even have an office.
And so the presumption is that anyone who is angry or
disgruntled, "Needs Therapy". And so our population is thus
kept in check, and it is very hard to change laws because
survivor exist without public honor.. And the middle-class
family and the self-reliance ethic continue.
This is so similar to how Psychiatry and the Mental Health
System have worked, keeping survivors marginalized.
"Unconsious feelings" and a need to "process them" is a huge
distraction. It very rarely leads to action, so a reasonable
person could assume that it is another denial strategy.
Cognition does not work that way. The distresses which you have
experienced become part of the light by which you see new
experiences. They are not primarily things which can be
remembered or recalled, that is just a pale reflection of what
you have experienced. You want to know your experiences, look
at the entire course of your life and look at who and what you
are. This is very difficult, way beyond the scope of anything
the therapist can help with.
If you look at how hard it is to challenge the Self-Reliance
Ethic, then one sees how deep the denial systems run in our
society, and how deep the scars created by the middle-class
family.
Psychotherapists do not challenge this, runs too deep, and too
close to their own denied experience.
"It certainly did involve confronting family members about how I
had been treated,"
Settlement sums? Incarcerations? Or just go along to get along
and keep it private? Therapist may not say so openly, but this
is how they want things settled, as it exonerates the
perpetrators.
Confronting a habitual abuser without a law suit or other
consequence behind it, is just an exercise in self abuse.
I helped three girls put their father into the state prison.
Writing to the court, I made it clear that if we want survivors
to defy their church and their parents in coming forward, then
they must expect to be vindicated. So there must be a long
sentence.
Penalties for Perpetrators, Reparations for Survivors. This is
what Shari Karney did, and this is what Julie Gregory is working
on.
"She most definitely helped me move from being angry at myself
to being angry about social injustice, not because she told me
to feel that way, but because she helped me find and connect
with my own sense of righteous indignation. And as I said
before, without this experience, I would never have gotten to
advocacy as a career and life path. "
Again, penalties for perpetrators and reparations for survivors,
not just moving away from personal anger to righteous
indignation.
We live in a war zone, and it is a being perpetrated against
children in the name of the self-reliance ethic. And as it
stands, it is very rare that a perpetrator gets any penalty.
But here is one example:
HTML http://www.vachss.com/guest_dispatches/excerpt_battle_11.html
So Steve, if knowing all of this about you, a client came for
psychotherapy and tried to talk about familial abuse issues,
they should expect to be delegitimated and humiliated, because
you don't seem to see redress as important.
Say a woman goes to a police station to report that she has been
raped. Should she be told about psychotherapy, and about how
she can confront the perpetrator?
No, this would amount to what activists have long identified as
"second rape".
Shari Karney tried confronting the perpetrators, but they went
ballistic. Then though she turned to the law books, and finally
to getting laws changed. No one would ever accuse Shari Karney
of living a life without public honor.
"
So my therapist did not fit your model of “teach you to adjust
to injustice” or “accept your lot in life.” It was much more
about, “If you have an issue, what are you going to DO about
it?” Which certainly fits into your framework of encouraging
people to take action against their oppressors.
"
Your words say one thing, but what they indicate is the
opposite.
Penalities for perpetrators, reparations for survivors. This is
how you restore your public honor. Otherwise you are just
continuing to eat and shit in the very small space which the
abusers have left, and making the mistake of calling that
"life".
Jeff Anderson has recovered hundreds of millions on behalf or
survivors. He has driven Catholic dioceses into bankruptcy.
We need people who have the same zeal for going after the
middle-class family, and after Psychiatry, and after
Psychotherapy, that Jeff Anderson has for going after the
Catholic Church. And he has gotten laws changed and is getting
all the records and taking it down diocese by diocese.
"But to pretend that there is some generalized agreement among
therapists that their job is to prevent people from holding
their oppressors accountable is to me simplistic and not
supported by the fact. "
But if they are not in favor of the denial system known as "Live
and Let Live", then why are they therapists? How could someone
be a therapist if they did not believe in that?
"Therapists are not lawyers"
Then why are they getting people to take the huge risk of
disclosing their personal affairs?
"but there’s nothing to prevent a therapist from making
referrals to lawyers for class action suits and the like, and I
certainly have done that with many a person in my social worker
days. "
But this is going to be after the fact, after the client has
severely compromised themselves by disclosing affairs to someone
who is not their attorney. And most actions which attack the
middle-class family are going to be cutting edge law, practiced
by those who want to extend the envelop of civil accountability.
This is going to be a special breed. And why would one want to
talk with a therapist, instead of an attorney, in the first
place?
Here a survivor can talk safely, knowing that their claim to
reparations will not be written off, that they will not be
subjected to anything like "second rape".
"
Today in Manhattan, survivors, advocates and the law firm of
Jeff Anderson & Associates are: · Releasing The Anderson Report
on Sexual Abuse in the Archdiocese of New York containing the
identities, histories, photographs and information on 310
clerics accused of child sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of New
York; · Demanding full disclosure by the Archdiocese of New
York, Archbishop Timothy Dolan, and the religious orders, of the
identities, histories, and current whereabouts of all clergy
accused of child sexual abuse who worked in the Archdiocese; ·
Discussing a new law, the New York Child Victims Act, which
opens a one-year “window” in mid-August for survivors of child
sexual abuse to take legal action against the perpetrator and
the institution that may have protected the perpetrator,
regardless of when the abuse occurred.
"
HTML https://www.andersonadvocates.com/
Psychotherapy is Con Artistry, making people believe that it is
in their interests to disclose their personal affairs to someone
who is not able to do anything to help them with the affairs of
their lives.
Some seem to see it as the alternative to psychiatry, but this
is a ruse. The proper response to psychiatry is simply FU.
Why do people believe that their is some benefit in talking with
the psychotherapist? Why not some peer level grouping, and
something which is overtly political and legal action focused?
Churches have been a total failure. And this was the vacuum
which Freud stepped into. But there are still other kinds of
things like esoteric, occult, humanist, and eastern oriented
groups.
Finding one's way in life is usually difficult. But why would
anyone think that the non-peer and highly regulation influenced
relationship with a Psychotherapist is a productive use of their
time, or a worthwhile risk to operational security.
To be a psychotherapist, doesn't one have to agree that anger is
not okay, and that it is morally superior not to try and hold
perpetrators accountable?
Progress often does depend upon being able to discern universal
truths.
#Post#: 101--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: August 5, 2019, 4:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Denouncing Psychotherapy:
Fiachra wrote, "but that psychological method does"
The psychological method does work? Work to do what?
All it does is let people talk themselves out, and eventually
get them to accept the premise that they should not try to
redress wrongs. Its just talking them down. Its exactly what
police do, except that they will keep you handcuffed to a table
in an interrogation cell for the talk down.
And you wrote of recovery from ~schizophrenia~, "Its mostly
about dealing with Anxiety and coming off drugs safely."
Well then why do you want to call it ~schizophrenia~? Why not
just call it anxiety and drug addiction?
~Recovery~ is just a way of further invalidating survivors,
making it look like they are the problem.
Steve wrote, "Most therapists have been coopted by the
psychiatric industry and the DSM."
But even if the psychiatric industry and DSM did not exist, I
have never seen any evidence the psychotherapy has anything good
about it.
If you have been in the mental health system, or in
psychotherapy, then you do not have a biography anymore, because
the course of you life has been disrupted by something which is
considered invalid and worthless. So you cannot present your
biography in an honorable way.
And isn't this correct, the way it should be? If you have been
in psychotherapy, what is honorable about that? And how could
psychotherapy ever do anything to remedy objective issues?
Your psychotherapist is not going to place themselves at risk to
vanquish foes. Yet vanquishing foes is the gold standard for
restoring your public honor.
Great Book:
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Path-Everyday-Hero-Important-Challenges/dp/0976220202
Parceval vanquishes foes on a continual basis. But the most
important is the Red Knight. The first time Parceval approached
him, unarmored, unarmed, untrained, he told him to surrender.
He didn't and kept terrorizing the countryside. So the next
time Parceval approach him, he put a javelin into his helmeted
forehead.
While I realize that I do not know every last therapist, and so
I cannot rule out the possibility of their being one exception,
it seems that the whole premise of psychotherapy is that it
happens in the therapist's office, because it pertains to what
is going on between the client's ears.
So I say, psychotherapy is a horrible sham, a con. And I think
everyone really knows this, and has always known this, certainly
going back to Freud. So if I say that I am in psychotherapy I
am telling people that I can be easily conned, I can be
convinced that my problems lie between my ears, and I do not
care about restoring my public honor. And that is how people
will hear it, they will see me as a neurotic.
And then psychotherapy is using a horribly discredited model of
cognition. Maybe only the Criminal Justice System, Religion,
and Psychotherapy still use this Representational or Cartesian
Model. Its the model that tells us that somewhere in your dog's
head, there is a representation of the dog's name.
People know that it does not work this way. Cognition is
embodied.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Tree-Knowledge-Biological-Roots-Understanding/dp/0877736421/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32XJNSKD1V14X&keywords=tree+of+knowledge+book&qid=1565037385&s=gateway&sprefix=tree+of+knowl%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-1
^^^ best introductory explanation around.
An often used idea from this school of thought, Autopoeisis, is:
"All knowing is doing" and "All doing is knowing."
HTML http://www.enolagaia.com/AT.html
This is very compatible with Martin Heiddeger's 1927 "Being In
Time".
He showed us that the Cartesian kind of detached thinking is not
everyday consciousness. Rather what Heidegger called everyday
consciousness was what he called being, "Always Already Thrown"
to language, or more commonly "Being In The World".
What Psychotherapy operates on, Cartesian ideas, with Freud's
addition of the Unconscious, IS A DISTRACTION. It does not get
to your actual life experience, it is merely an abstracted
reflection. It is a ruse, it is a type of Witch Doctoring.
So if I say, "I know that there is widespread abuse which
creates an underclass of marginalized people, and I know that we
must put a stop to this", then the proper question is, "What are
you doing about it"?
If my answer is "nothing" or "I am talking with my therapist
about it", then the proper conclusion is that I do not really
know what I claimed to know.
If I did know, I would be acting. When you see someone trying
to stop the abuses that are the middle-class family, and that
are psychiatry and drugging, and that are the con game that is
psychotherapy, then they are actually someone who knows.
HTML http://icpla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Dreyfus-HL-Alternative-Philosophical-Conceptualizations-of-Psychopathology.pdf
#Post#: 102--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: August 5, 2019, 4:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Denouncing Psychotherapy:
Fiachra wrote, "but that psychological method does"
The psychological method does work? Work to do what?
All it does is let people talk themselves out, and eventually
get them to accept the premise that they should not try to
redress wrongs. Its just talking them down. Its exactly what
police do, except that they will keep you handcuffed to a table
in an interrogation cell for the talk down.
And you wrote of recovery from ~schizophrenia~, "Its mostly
about dealing with Anxiety and coming off drugs safely."
Well then why do you want to call it ~schizophrenia~? Why not
just call it anxiety and drug addiction?
~Recovery~ is just a way of further invalidating survivors,
making it look like they are the problem.
Steve wrote, "Most therapists have been coopted by the
psychiatric industry and the DSM."
But even if the psychiatric industry and DSM did not exist, I
have never seen any evidence the psychotherapy has anything good
about it.
If you have been in the mental health system, or in
psychotherapy, then you do not have a biography anymore, because
the course of you life has been disrupted by something which is
considered invalid and worthless. So you cannot present your
biography in an honorable way.
And isn't this correct, the way it should be? If you have been
in psychotherapy, what is honorable about that? And how could
psychotherapy ever do anything to remedy objective issues?
Your psychotherapist is not going to place themselves at risk to
vanquish foes. Yet vanquishing foes is the gold standard for
restoring your public honor.
Great Book:
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Path-Everyday-Hero-Important-Challenges/dp/0976220202
Parceval vanquishes foes on a continual basis. But the most
important is the Red Knight. The first time Parceval approached
him, unarmored, unarmed, untrained, he told him to surrender.
He didn't and kept terrorizing the countryside. So the next
time Parceval approach him, he put a javelin into his helmeted
forehead.
While I realize that I do not know every last therapist, and so
I cannot rule out the possibility of their being one exception,
it seems that the whole premise of psychotherapy is that it
happens in the therapist's office, because it pertains to what
is going on between the client's ears.
So I say, psychotherapy is a horrible sham, a con. And I think
everyone really knows this, and has always known this, certainly
going back to Freud. So if I say that I am in psychotherapy I
am telling people that I can be easily conned, I can be
convinced that my problems lie between my ears, and I do not
care about restoring my public honor. And that is how people
will hear it, they will see me as a neurotic.
And then psychotherapy is using a horribly discredited model of
cognition. Maybe only the Criminal Justice System, Religion,
and Psychotherapy still use this Representational or Cartesian
Model. Its the model that tells us that somewhere in your dog's
head, there is a representation of the dog's name.
People know that it does not work this way. Cognition is
embodied.
HTML https://www.amazon.com/Tree-Knowledge-Biological-Roots-Understanding/dp/0877736421/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32XJNSKD1V14X&keywords=tree+of+knowledge+book&qid=1565037385&s=gateway&sprefix=tree+of+knowl%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-1
^^^ best introductory explanation around.
An often used idea from this school of thought, Autopoeisis, is:
"All knowing is doing" and "All doing is knowing."
HTML http://www.enolagaia.com/AT.html
This is very compatible with Martin Heiddeger's 1927 "Being In
Time".
He showed us that the Cartesian kind of detached thinking is not
everyday consciousness. Rather what Heidegger called everyday
consciousness was what he called being, "Always Already Thrown"
to language, or more commonly "Being In The World".
What Psychotherapy operates on, Cartesian ideas, with Freud's
addition of the Unconscious, IS A DISTRACTION. It does not get
to your actual life experience, it is merely an abstracted
reflection. It is a ruse, it is a type of Witch Doctoring.
So if I say, "I know that there is widespread abuse which
creates an underclass of marginalized people, and I know that we
must put a stop to this", then the proper question is, "What are
you doing about it"?
If my answer is "nothing" or "I am talking with my therapist
about it", then the proper conclusion is that I do not really
know what I claimed to know.
If I did know, I would be acting. When you see someone trying
to stop the abuses that are the middle-class family, and that
are psychiatry and drugging, and that are the con game that is
psychotherapy, then they are actually someone who knows.
HTML http://icpla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Dreyfus-HL-Alternative-Philosophical-Conceptualizations-of-Psychopathology.pdf
#Post#: 105--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: August 6, 2019, 8:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well Steve, suppose we had a man who was angry because he was
living in a state of slavery. Because of his obvious anger he
might get directed to a psychotherapist. After all, most people
see it as angry people are not really enjoying mental health.
This is the basis of the questionnaires used to write the
articles on this forum.
So he might end up with some of the Mad Italy people who want to
promote this psychotherapy and recovery model, without labels or
diagnosis.
Or he might end up with some of the people who use this new PTMF
manual.
So hopefully he will get a therapist who is good at listening. I
think most aren’t. But there will be so some who are. I am not a
therapist and I have no interest in ever being a therapist. But
there will be some who are good listeners.
So the therapist listens to his story and this takes a number of
sessions.
The therapist shows especial interest when he talks about his
childhood. Its because this deals with things which happened so
long ago that redress is usually impractical. So the therapist
always wants to steer the focus here.
But what about the fact that he is a slave? Well the therapist
can’t really do anything about that. That is a matter of law. We
all have to learn to live with the lot life has handed us. The
therapist learned this when he was in therapy, and this is why
he became a therapist.
If the client really believes that slavery is wrong, then the
therapist, though they may listen, they couldn’t possibly agree
with the client. If they really agreed then they would not be
paying rent on their consulting office, they would be out trying
to start a slave revolt like John Brown had.
Originally no one sided with Brown. But as time passed and VA
executed him, views changed.
Lincoln had said that Brown’s actions were “misguided”. But
fearing that he would lose the 1864 election he called Frederick
Douglas to the White House and offered him troops if he could
make raids into the Upper Confederacy and free as many slaves as
possible. He wanted Douglas to become John Brown.
Harriet Tubman had always counseled non-violence. But she still
helped Brown recruit. Than after the raid had failed, but so
spectacularly, she rescued a suspected fugitive slave from the
court house, twice in the same day, and getting him safely off
to Canada.
Then,
”
It’s May 1863. Outgeneraled and outgunned, a demoralized Union
Army has pulled back with massive losses at the Battle of
Chancellorsville. Fort Sumter, hated symbol of the Rebellion,
taunts the American navy with its artillery and underwater
mines.
”
HTML https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/194892434X/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i2
Tubman plans and leads a masterful raid, behind enemy lines,
Combahee River South Carolina, liberating hundreds and hundred
of slaves, and turning around the army’s malaise.
People are changed when they are offered the chance, and they
decide to get involved.
I was offered the chance, completely out of the blue. I was
known as someone who sides with criminal defendants. Social
circumstances had brought me into contact with a fundamentalist
Pentecostal man.
He decided to confide in me. He explained in a broad brush
manner the felony charges which he had pending. He then started
getting more and more agitated, explaining that it was all
because of his eldest daughter, and then jumping up and down and
making wild arm gestures, he explained that “Its all because of
the problems she has with Alcohol, with Drugs, and with Sex”.
And then pointing at bushes in a park, “She even had sex in the
bushes”.
Well, as it would unfold, in each communication to the
Prosecution and the Court, I would always lead saying that he
never said anything to me which directly indicated guilt. But
right off I could see that he had a huge amount of emotional
energy invested in scapegoating his eldest daughter. He would
say other things about her too. And so as I explained, to me
this indicated that this girl had lived a long time being made
the scapegoat. Usually things like sexual and physical abuse are
coming out of a context of emotional abuse.
See, this guy was saying that the police had blown this out of
proportion, and they were denouncing all efforts to protect
children. This is after all at the central evangelical core of
their religion, an anti-government position.
But I knew right off, I stand with Alice Miller, and she always
stands with the child.
So I only needed to hear his emotional performance once, and I
was involved.
I read the case file, abusing children is not a private matter,
and I saw that the sentence he could get could well exceed his
life expectancy.
I believe that our system is too harsh, and I have seen how
criminal cases have spun out of control.
And then, do I really want the state doing my bidding, doing
what I would not do myself?
Well as I worked into it, I decided that yes, if we lived in
that kind of a society, then I would follow the example of John
Brown in Kansas, dragging this guy out of his home and hacking
him to pieces with a broad sword.
But as it went, I am very happy with the results because it
educated police, prosecutors, and judges. Don’t know how many
cases like this get prosecuted, when the accused parents are
still married and still financially solvent.
They had tried to send the girls to Psychotherapy, “so that they
wouldn’t have to be carrying these false memories around with
them.”
They tried to send them to Eye Movement Reprocessing Therapy.
And I would go on to make much of this with the Prosecution and
the Court.
And the mother tried to get the eldest daughter to agree to a
dinner, to settle the whole thing. But she refused, saying,
“This isn’t the sort of thing which gets settled with a dinner.”
Well I could say more, but that guy is locked up for a long long
time and I am very happy about it. I had expected my role to be
very small, but in fact it turned out to be huge.
Hey, you do not turn your back on the Burning Bush. There was no
reason that I should have been given the chance to get involved
in this. But there it was. I knew that what kinds of things I
would be offered in the future, depended entirely on how I
handled that opportunity.
I have seen how we have a huge huge underclass of Family
Scapegoats. And where to they end up? In Psychiatry,
Psychotherapy, Recovery, and Salvation Seeking.
Really it comes down to what can be lawfully gotten away with,
and with how hard people are willing to push for civil remedies.
The mother is still going around saying that the conviction was
wrong and that the girls were liars. Their church is like that,
everyone has a scapegoat child, and usually a scapegoat sibling
too.
To Be Continued
#Post#: 109--------------------------------------------------
Re: Replies To Steve
DIR By: forbitals
Date: August 8, 2019, 4:51 pm
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HTML https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/08/toward-critical-self-reflective-psychiatry-interview-pat-bracken/?unapproved=159370&moderation-hash=5520504dee905933904aafd5481dead8#comment-159370
Steve just because you say that Psychotherapy made you feel
good, that does mean that I or anyone else have to go along with
it.
Personal experience narratives are always interpretations.
Evangelical Religion generates them. The Recovery Movement
generates them. Psychotherapy generates them, as do lots of
other things.
I say people learn more and grow more then they are actively
involved and placing themselves at risk in the fight for justice
and restored social and civil standing. In the vast majority of
cases, psychotherapy steers people away from such. But publicly
vanquishing worthy foes is always going to be the central pillar
of public honor.
The therapist of course believes that the problem and the
solutions lie between the client’s ears, and some people will go
along with this.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9FN1LMdhic
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