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       #Post#: 67--------------------------------------------------
       Replying to the Tune Out Crowd
   DIR By: forbitals
       Date: June 28, 2019, 4:32 pm
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       "I personally would and do feel quite denigrated by the idea
       that I don’t know myself well enough to know that the drugs I
       *do* use to numb out some time (not psych drugs, but alcohol for
       one), and that I’m somehow a ‘victim’ as a result of seeing the
       value in that for myself… It also feels hard to hear that I’m
       somehow also not able to do the work that I apparently need to
       do to process my feelings, etc, if I’m using such substances and
       am somehow – if I’m reading you right – lesser than for that."
       Feeling ones feelings, and staying mindful, is extremely hard
       work.  It can feel like your bones are being eaten in acid.
       This book here puts it the best that I have seen, Psychiatry and
       Psychotherapy turn your experience of injustice into a medical
       problem and a self improvement project.
  HTML https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Social-Family-Radical-Thinkers/dp/1781687595/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+anti-social+family&qid=1561754376&s=gateway&sr=8-1
       So who is going to challenge this?  Who is going to stop the
       survivors of familial abuses from ending up in mental health,
       psychotherapy, and recovery movement.
       You say that you process your feelings.  I'm not talking about
       anything like that.  Processing feelings, usually what it means
       is just getting to where you can comply with social standards
       again.  And so some people get their doctor to write them a
       prescription.  You have learned how to prescribe for yourself to
       get the same result.
       When I talk about feeling your feelings, I mean a long term
       commitment to regressions, starting with present feelings and
       working back.  I am talking about re-constructing oneself.  I
       mean collecting up the pieces which have been torn off and then
       re-membering yourself.
       Unless we have people doing this, then nothing will change.
       People will still be able to have children so that they don't
       have to deal with their own issues, and then break the wills and
       esteems of those children, knowing that they will end up in
       mental health and recovery.
       I know that there have been numb out drugs from the beginning of
       time.  But I also know that they are a problem for those of use
       who want to reclaim what has been taken from us.  The numb out
       drugs help mental health, and the recovery movement, because
       they bring people down to their level.
       People who just want to numb out are never going to offer
       effective opposition.
       And in calling for the arbitrary individual decision to take
       what you want and to not take what you don't want, you are
       simply arguing for Libertarianism, and this is a fallacy.  Right
       now people are driving their children to the doctor, and they
       are being put on drugs.  And people who have grown up in very
       oppressive environments and been made to feel that it is there
       fault, they are being conned by psychotherapists.  And this
       being done via government licensing.
       So while you ingest what you want, a horrible state of affairs
       persists.  The only way you would be able to see this though,
       would be if you were committed to the very hard work of feeling
       your feelings.
       "
       The people who then come along and tell me that they also thing
       I’m bad or wrong for choosing what I do take even in the most
       well informed way don’t have the same power or cause the same
       harm in any way, but they surely don’t help.
       "
       But you aren't helping either, you aren't opposing psych drugs,
       psychotherapy, the recovery movement, or the FixMyKid industry.
       "
       Where people seem to be getting lost – as best I can tell – is
       in our recognition that there *are* sometimes people who claim
       that no one should ever be on any kind of drug or that they know
       that anyone who says drugs help them is somehow misguided or
       “deluded”.
       "
       Talk about drugs is a direct attack on survivors.  It creates
       the impression that they are the problem, and that drugs which
       attack the functioning of their central nervous system are the
       remedy.
       It's just like how rape has always been handled, trying to blame
       it on the victim, and making the pacification of the victim the
       intended outcome.
       "
       People who push in this way are *NOT* equal to the system that
       pushes drugs because (as we say several times in the article)
       those people have no systemic power.
       "
       Where there is power is in holding parents accountable, in
       holding the mental health system accountable, and in getting our
       government out of the recovery and salvation businesses.
       But when there is conflict out at the barricades, it is those
       who want chemical tune out who are most likely to be AWOL.
       Our society is sick, in that people work meaningless jobs and
       then use chemicals to tune out.  And this is what the
       middle-class family and the mental health system prepare people
       to accept.  So chemical tune outs is submission.  Where as the
       one who always seems to have their tail on fire is the one who
       is resisting.
       "
       However, my personal wish is that this movement will eventually
       get to the point where the focus *is* on power. Not on
       ‘recovery’… Not on what people should or shouldn’t be doing… but
       simply on their right to have real information, make real
       choices, be treated equally where their rights are concerned,
       and be the holder of power where their own lives are concerned.
       "
       But it can never get like this until some deeply embedded forms
       of abuse, in the middle-class family, and in its white coat
       enforcers, are exposed and eradicated.  And the only way to do
       this is public punishment of the perpetrators.  Its no different
       than it was with the de-Nazification of Germany, there have to
       be public consequences for the perpetrators, or it will just
       continue.
       Sera, I do not agree with your article or with the message you
       are putting out.  You are not supporting mindful resistance, you
       are pleading that people like me will go along with you on pills
       and alcohol.
       Its just like when you were trying to oppose the Murphy Bill,
       you were not calling for resistance to the mental health system.
       You were pleading with Murphy and his supporters for tolerance
       for those who are in some way going along with the mental health
       idea.  You were not telling Murphy how every aspect of his
       proposed legislation would be resisted, and by any means
       necessary.  You were not telling Murphy and his supporters that
       they were torturing their own children.
       We do have to resist the mental health system, and we have to
       resist tune out.  No this is not a legal requirement, there
       would be no way to enforce such a thing.  But I for one promise
       unceasing resistance to any articles or posts which encourage
       tune out, or cooperation with the mental health system or the
       recovery movement, or which encourage support for
       psychotherapists playing god in what should be seen as child
       abuse cases.
       1459 Days of Resistance, how a political activist talks.  It is
       not pleading for tolerance.
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTB-m2NxWzA
       #Post#: 73--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Replying to the Tune Out Crowd
   DIR By: forbitals
       Date: July 6, 2019, 4:01 pm
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       Further Reply to Sera
       Sera, above you wrote, "The main point of the article was that
       “pill shaming” isn’t really a thing, for the most part… that
       it’s often about something else in the little ways it does
       happen, and that mostly the term is a misunderstanding of or
       misuse of power because the very few people who actually
       criticize people for taking psych drugs still don’t actually
       hold any power over them, and the argument that “pill shaming”
       is this real and frightening thing that is somehow equal to the
       force and coercion out there that makes people think they have
       to *take* drugs is just off base."
       Throughout your article and replies, you've talked about power.
       I agree with you that we should be looking first and foremost at
       how power is being used.
       My thinking about this is in part based on the work of David
       Smail ( website down now ).  He explained that we have to look
       at how power is being used, and that the experience of distress
       is something evolutionarily developed, to draw our attention to
       conditions which are making us socially marginalized.
       And then in part my views have been influenced by Alice Miller,
       especially her book number 3, "Thou Shalt Not Be Aware".  When
       she wrote this she was at her very best, denouncing any and all
       forms of Psychtherapy, showing how they are simply interpretive
       schema's for promoting denial.
       Now unfortunately she was not able to hold to this.  Not unlike
       R. D. Laing before her, she got wound into regression therapies
       and was never the same after.  She often had opened doors, but
       was then unable to walk through them herself.
       Psychotherapy is based on getting people to believe the lie that
       their pain is cased primarily by things which happened long long
       ago, and that they should ignore the things which socially
       marginalize them today.  And then most of all, the therapist
       needs to make you believe that it is morally superior to never
       make any attempts to restore your public honor.  You are to live
       without honor.  And to teach this is why our state licenses
       them.
       So in light of this, how could it make much difference if people
       take pills or drink alcohol?  It doesn't really, they are just
       getting by as best they can.
       Well, part of the problem is that many still argue, even on this
       forum, that drugs and alcohol are good for people, that they
       help with this "healing", and that they "expand consciousness".
       If we are going to fight back, we need people who are straight,
       I would say straight like Air Traffic Controllers.  I would say
       that, but it goes even further.  Even if someone has no mood
       alterants in their blood stream, but they still occasionally
       take them, then they are not really committed to feeling their
       pain.  They believe in escape, and so their abilities will be
       limited.
       Let me tell you this, I helped to get a man a long term in our
       state prison for molesting his daughters.  And his entire
       Pentecostal Church was standing behind him and making it into an
       anti-government case.  And his defense was based on ~mental
       health~ ~anti-feminism~ and ~anti-government~ arguments and
       sentiments in the jury pool.
       When he was finally convicted and remanded, and then moved from
       the county jail to the state penn, the elation I felt was
       extreme.
       I would never want to replace even one instance of that with a
       lifetime of something done by chemicals.  Chemicals do not
       change anything in your objective life, just like psychotherapy
       does not change anything in our objective lives.
       What we need are anti-mental health guerrillas, people committed
       to feeling their feelings and to getting results.  So it's not
       just being drug and alcohol free while carrying out duties, it's
       a life style based on total commitment to staying drug and
       alcohol free, which will give us the kind of determined people
       we need.
       To Live With Honor and to Die With Honor
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlWVV5imXSM
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