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#Post#: 10277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: RMS
Date: February 9, 2012, 12:18 pm
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From agricultural suppliers, as already mentioned, or I get mine
in bulk from here:
HTML http://www.smithandallan.com/prodpage.aspx?id=1861
HTML http://www.smithandallan.com/prodpage.aspx?id=1861
along with
their engine oil.
If you've got a Wilco/Motosave nearby, they sell GL4 in 5l
cans, around £14 I think.
HTH,
Robin.
#Post#: 10385--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: KCS
Date: February 10, 2012, 4:31 am
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Thank you very much for all the input. I have also read
somewhere that GL5 is bad for an old Land Rover gearbox. We can
still get 80w/90 GL4 here, so that is what I will stick to.
Cheers
KC
#Post#: 10390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: RMS
Date: February 10, 2012, 4:38 am
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Ah KC, I assume, from re-reading the post, that you are not in
the UK ???
So my links and suggestions won't be of any use to you - sorry
8)
It might be worth adding your location to your profile ;)
#Post#: 10406--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: Donk
Date: February 10, 2012, 6:22 am
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Drew is right use GL4 gear oil in the gearbox. if you can get
GL4 EP90 use that but most here in Australia seem to be like
75w/80 or 85 weight. Someone said that the GL5s have been
improved or rectified not to attack the bronze
components.....not so true for all. i recently did my gearbox
up, former owner used GL5 in it and there was a film of sparkly
bronze flek on the top of the oil when drained. At a distance
it looked like dysentry. It attacked the bronze in a major way.
Dont know how long the oil was in there but id say for quite a
long time. Donk
#Post#: 10415--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: Wooden
Date: February 10, 2012, 7:45 am
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--- Quote from: mat777 link ---
>
> Where does one buy gl4 from these days? I've always used
Halfrauds EP70w90 gl5 because it was all I could lay my hands on
--- End Quote ---
If you must shop in Halfords they do stock EP90 GL4
Don't waste your money on GL5 which is more expensive and could
end up shagging your box.
#Post#: 10474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: Glen
Date: February 10, 2012, 2:37 pm
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Having spoken at length to a Fuchs person who works for Fuchs
R&D dept (and also runs classic cars) he says the yellow metal
stuff is a myth from the 1920's thats refused to go away! If
true that will predate GL4/5 by quite some way I suspect but
then its not unknown for early issues to be missbranded by those
who don't know better so if putting GL5 in a manual gearbox is
not recomended (see below) I can image how it could be branded a
yellow metal issue by default. Basicly thats not an issue these
days (perhaps its also interesting to note that though the
yellow metal issue was known in the 1920s, why don't rover
actully mention anything other than EP90 in the 50's, is it
because they reconed there wasn't a harmfull grade avalable at
the time as that issue has been resolved?). That said I've been
told by a smaller oil surplyer (Pennine) that GL5 can be an
issue for yellow metals - Personly I'd go with what Fuchs say,
(they garantee it won't be an issue with their products and
there aren't that many base oils and adatives out there so other
brands won't be that different eather) but I don't think thats
the only part of the GL5 story.
I have been experementing with oils a bit recently to try and
get things a bity better lubricated. You see, EP90, though
specced for our gearboxes, is pritty shit by modern standards,
if even avalable. 80W/90 is a much better improvement (no one
uses monograde in engines anymore so why do it for the gearbox?)
as its more likely to be classed as a liquid at -something degC,
in GL4 form I really can't see an argument for not using it as
your bare minimum spec.
Question is though can you do better? Almost certainly, its not
the 1960's any more. Thin oil is more efficent, thicker oil is
used when the seals or machineing can't handle less (ie for old
designs). For thickness its best to stick with something with a
90 in it, so when its up to temp it shouldn't be too different
to what the box was designed for (rover will have done many
hours testing to select EP90 so its not worth straying too far
from that, your just looking for something that acts like that
through more of a temprature/pressure range). For the xxW
figure there is nothing wrong with going down to 80W or 75W as
when the gearbox is cold oil of that 'grade' will still be
thicker than a 90 will be when warm, and thats what your aiming
for - going for wide ranges between the W and normal grade is
dificult without going into the world of synthetics, thats why
15W40 engine oil is usally mineral but you won't find a 5W40
thats not synthetic, it can't be done without it.
I've noticed my 2.25D really struggles to get going out of
Buxton on frosty mornings, so much slower than in the summer and
its never that bad at any time of year when its been going for
20mins (which nowadays represents practically all of my comute,
the days when it used to do 30mpg was when I tended to only do
1h+ drives in it), its most obveous power loss always coinsides
with the gear leaver fealing very draggy when changing gear -
basicly the oil in the box is like treakle and is absorbing more
power than when warm, the transferbox and diffs (crownwheel and
pinions are a less efficent type of gearbox, thats why
transverse engined car designs are popular as they don't
use/need this loss) will have simular losses.
My VW specs the same sort of 80W/90 GL4 oil and they (VW 094 4+G
speed transaxle) have famously bad cold weather performance,
(especally 1st/2nd as the selectors for them are at the bottem
of the 'box). I switched to a semi synthetic 75W/90 GL4 and
that made quite a staggering difference (less drag and the not
very good synchromesh is greatly improved - its clearly not just
the same stuff in a more expencive pot!). My only issue with
this oil is actully getting hold of it as it seems surplyers are
using the resession as an excuse and are now only stocking shit
like basic grade 'carlube' so I can't get any more easilly, I'd
have put some in the landy last year if I could. I suspect
it'll be great in a series gearbox but there is always the
begging question of can you go any further...
I'm currenty trying some Valvoline 75W/90 GL5 (think it actully
says GL3...5) fully synthetic in a series 3 main box on one
vehicle and a fariey overdrive on another. Cold weather
performance is once again massively improved (cold and hot
shifting feals very sumular) over the mineral oils but there is
a problem, synchromesh is not very good, slightly wose than with
mineral oil but it doesn't grind, just feals rather notchy. Its
like there is so little friction in the 'box they don't have the
grip in the synchromesh to work properly so you just sit there
on the baulk ring waiting for it to change, 'corse the gearbox
probubly isn't perfect to start with, the overdrive has always
been a bit notchy, so maybe in a new box this would be less
aparent? I wonder if this lack of friction is the real issue
with GL5 as thats usally designed more for diffs and the like in
RWD cars where the lower the drag the better. A lot of
gearboxes (that ask for EP oils rather than MTF or other) tend
to spec GL4 and I think the syncrhromesh performance, rather
than the yellow metal wives tail, is the real resion for this.
Cheep mineral oils there probubly isn't much performance
difference with GL4 or 5 in this respect though, hence why it
doesn't seem to make much difference when you put 80W90 GL5 in a
series (I've certainly done it in the past before I herd about
GL ratings, I then stuck with 4 as it wasn't hard to find).
I don't like the valvoline stuff so would not recomend it as you
basicly have to double de clutch it if you want to change gear
quickly, though it doesn't grind so I don't think it does it any
perticular harm, its just notchy, slow and I know series boxes
can be nicer to drive. The next experiment will be Fuchs Race
Syn 5 75W90 as aparently that stuff is ment to be good in old
gearboxes, along with much else (a dubeous claim, but then rover
did recon one oil was good for everything so I guess a modern
version of it could be slightly better at everything?). I've
also noticed recently Difflock.com is selling some specal oil
for vereous landrover transmissions and the stuff they say is
suitable for EP specced gearboxes I suspect has a very
resionable chance of being a badge engineered version of race
syn 5 (at comes in Fuchs shaped pots for a start, price and spec
seem quite simular though I'm not sure they'll give me a proper
datasheet like Fuchs did) - seems to get good reviews, who
knows, so far the semi syn GL4 like I still have in the VW is my
faverate, quite a bit cheeper than fully syn too.
You might now be asking whats the point (though I guess you have
slight interest if you've read this far)? Why spend over £20
filling a gearbox when normal EP80W/90 would cost about £4 and
has been good for the last 60 years? Good question, if I was
waiding the vehicle through shit and water regularly thus
running the risk of contamination I would agree its a waist of
money but for a road motor that mainly does some miles, the odd
lane, tows a trailer and shouldn't get stuck in the places I
tend to end up (thats a tick in the land-rover most suitable
vehicle for job box, you don't need to have mud on the roof,
people just think your a prick, its not that far removed from
chequeerplate and lamp bars), having something that perfoms
slightly better especally in cold may pay itself back over time
whilst making the landy nicer to drive in the mean time (if it
makes it slightly less whinely and more efficent during warmup
thats no bad thing). Remember you are ment to take the head off
a series one quite regularly to decoke the head (its considered
so normal I think its mentioned in the instruction book rather
than the workshop manual), your ment to fit reconned injectors
to a 2.25 diesel about every 25k miles and I've never bothered
doing eather at 3 times those intervals because its simply not
needed anymore, the mechanics havn't changed so the improvments
must be in the modern fuels and oil, so why treet the gearbox
any different! Another sereous motivation is whilst it may
extend the life of a normal gearbox it might reduice the impact
on an overloaded one - the S3 box mentioned is attached to a Tdi
so with better bearing and gear cooling/lubrication a better oil
may offer, it could provide it that bit extra help to prevent it
going fuck quite so quickly, I can be quite heavy on the loud
pedal (smooth but heavy).
When the 'box needs a rebuild it'll be interesting to see how it
died - £20 might sound like a lot for a litre and a half of oil
but if it works it could be a very cheep way of making your
transmission slightly stronger, I'm prepaired to take that
gamble, I'll let you know how I get on (if theres interest out
there, won't bother with the above again if not)! - I'd be
interested in anyones views or expereances of higher end oils
too, or info on how your Tdi gearbox failed, even something
obveous sounding like a snapped shaft could have actuly been
caused by an overheating bearing rather than just being ripped
apart by moster torque, I once snapped a waterpump that way!
#Post#: 10638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: Dave
Date: February 11, 2012, 3:12 pm
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Well I just do what the manual says and stick EP90 GL4 in mine.
It's a Comma product, bought from any branch of Wilkinsons.
#Post#: 10848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: KCS
Date: February 13, 2012, 2:04 am
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From RMS;
"Ah KC, I assume, from re-reading the post, that you are not in
the UK ???
So my links and suggestions won't be of any use to you - sorry
8)
It might be worth adding your location to your profile ;)"
I recently re-joined from the old Forum, and it appears I cannot
edit my profile until I have more posts. Will try again.
Cheers
KC
#Post#: 10907--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox and Diff Lubricants
DIR By: NoelC
Date: February 13, 2012, 9:28 am
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--- Quote from: Glen link ---
> I'd be interested in anyones views or expereances of higher
end oils too
--- End Quote ---
I've got two 25 litre tubs of transmission oils I've had for a
while, one is a basic Comma EP80W90 GL4 mineral and one a fully
synthetic EP75W90. Can't remember the brand off the top of my
head but it's a good one. I use the fully synthetic in my recon
gearboxes, recon back axle in the 88 and overdrives and the
basic Comma in everything else. So far so good, the synthetic is
noticeably better and as the whole barrel was only 25% of the
cost of a gearbox it seemed sensible to protect it as much as
possible. The ambulance runs fully synthetic everywhere except
the engine in the states as it get so cold the resistance of the
cheap stuff is noticeable.
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