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#Post#: 99047--------------------------------------------------
Stopped, won't start.
By: kiwi s3 Date: September 26, 2015, 10:28 pm
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Hi everyone,
My 1978 petrol S3 was running fine for several trips around town
yesterday. After getting home from one trip, I left it idling on
the road for a couple of minutes while collecting a few things
to go out again. When I got back to my Landrover, it had
stopped. This is not too surprising, but I have not managed to
start it again.
It cranks over well, but there is no hint of it wanting to go.
First thought was fuel blockage, but taking off the fuel pipe
from the Weber carb, it pumped a good amount into a jam jar.
Also checked the idle jet which was clear,
Next thought was electrical, and sure enough I could not see a
spark when I removed a plug and cranked it over again. I have
checked the points and replaced the condenser (just happened to
have a new one handy), but no change.
My next thought was the coil. I checked there was 12v on the +
side when the ignition was on and measured about 10 Ohms between
the + and - terminals. This seems to suggest that the coil is
fine, but I can't think of anything else. Would the coil
suddenly fail without prior rough running?
What other tests should I be doing to narrow the problem down?
I really don't want to call out the AA, it seems so defeatist
when it's sat outside my house, but I really don't want to have
to take the bus to work!
Cheers,
Mark,
Wellington, NZ.
#Post#: 99048--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: Bert the Bodger Date: September 27, 2015, 1:27 am
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So you think the coil is fine but you don't have a spark at the
plugs? So disconnect the king lead at the distributor cap end
and test for spark by holding the lead close to the head and
observing for spark. ( This checks king lead continuity-crudely
but it does.) next turn your attention to the carbon brush and
the distributor cap-just logic really-follow the path of the
spark. King lead, centre socket on cap, carbon brush, rotor arm,
individual pick ups, etc. doing it in darkness helps to pinpoint
current leakage on ageing systems and Chinese shit.
Richard
#Post#: 99049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: w3526602 Date: September 27, 2015, 1:53 am
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Hi,
Did you refuel on the way home? :rolleye0012:
I have been know to connect the king lead direct to the nearest
plug. If you get a reaction when you spin the starter, it
indicates that you have fuel, and a spark from the coil. I have
had an S2 that would run on just one plug.
Remove air cleaner pipe from top of carb, peer into carb while
you flap the accelerator linkage, you should see fuel squirt
from the accelerator pump, indicating there is fuel in the float
chamber.
Me? I would check that the CB points are both opening and
closing, and that they are not black, blue, or purple (dud
condenser).
602
#Post#: 99053--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: CaptainSlow Date: September 27, 2015, 3:17 am
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It looks like you've tracked the problem down to being
electrical, which is good. So take it logically and check each
component in the chain.
Battery connections clean and tight.
Earth connections good and clean.
Both coil wires connected clean and tight. (You'd be amazed how
many cars I've seen with poor/loose wires here causing
intermittent stalling and poor running)
Are you getting power to the coil with the ignition on ?
(ignition switch or wiring issue)
Distributor cap - check the inside for tracking, the condition
of the electrodes and the graphite central electrode
HT leads tight and in the right order - as suggested above you
can check each plug one by one by wiring the HT lead direct to
the coil output, but I wouldn't recommend running the engine
like that lol
If you're still not getting a spark, then its likely to be the
distributor, so check the points - condition, gap, timing and
the condenser. Does the rotor arm rotate when you hit the
starter? Check the vacuum hose is secure - it shouldn't stop an
engine running but will cause poor running and impact
performance
If all that is ok, then start looking at the mechanical side.
Does the crank rotate when you hit the starter? Do the rocker
arms move? ie you're looking for mechanical failure as you'll
have ruled out air, fuel and electrical issues by this point.
Hopefully it'll be something simple like a loose coil wire...
Let us know how you get on
#Post#: 99058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: Serious Series Date: September 27, 2015, 4:57 am
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One more not mentioned so far base plate of points in
distributor has a small earth lead check that is intact and
connected.
#Post#: 99066--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: blackskidmarks Date: September 27, 2015, 2:43 pm
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Engine stopped with ignition on can overheat the coil if points
are closed. I had an S2a which would not restart when coil got
hot with normal running. A new coil fixed the problem.
#Post#: 99068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: spitfiremk1uk Date: September 27, 2015, 5:16 pm
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As with most diagnosis. Professionals can make it look easy. But
unless you make educated or informed guesses you must take the
methodical approach.
So the situation seems to be you have no spark at the spark
plug.
Check for a spark from the HT lead itself. I normally use a
screwdriver fitted into the end of the lead and hold it 3mm off
the rocker cover.
If you have a spark the issue must be plugs.
If you have no spark keep going.
Remove the King lead from the distributor and check for spark
using the same screwdriver as a conductor and hold off rocker
cover 3mm.
If you have a spark then the problem can only be rotor arm,
distributor cap or HT lead.
If you have no spark then keep going.
Ignition on. Use a spare piece of wire to earth out the -ve coil
connector that runs from the coil to your distributor. Using the
same method as for checking the king lead for a spark. Each
connection should produce a single spark.
If you have a spark then your problem can only be with the lead
that runs from coil to dissy, the points, the condensor or the
little earth wire inside the dissy.
If you have no spark then keep going.
If manually firing the coil produces no spark then first check
the king HT lead by swapping out for a known good one (or use
one of the other HT leads) and repeating the test.
Still no spark, carry on.
You must check for 12v +ve is being supplied to the coil from
the ignition switch.
No live/12v/+ve to coil then check ignition switch and wiring.
If you have a good live/12v/+ve to the coil but no spark when
manually firing the coil then the coil is knackered and needs
replacing.
Do the checks in the stated order. Be sure about your tests. If
completed properly you have just checked the entire system. If
you do these checks and cant find why you have no spark then I
can only suggest you call for a professional diagnosis who will
do the checks for you taking about 10 mins.
If problems are intermittant then the situation changes and
diagnosis needs to be much quicker to track down problems,
Remember checking for something when the engine is running means
there is, at that immediate time, nothing wrong! You can only
find intermittant problems whilst the problem exists!
#Post#: 99069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: fv1620 Date: September 28, 2015, 2:06 am
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10 ohms for the primary winding of the coil is too high, it
should be about a third of that.
After 15 mins does the coil get too hot to touch? If so there
may have been loss of oil. When you compare the electrical
leakage of the windings to the case, even a good warm coil
leakage will be ten times that of a cold coil. So a cold coil
may just be ok but not when it is hotter. It will take 30-45
mins for a hot coil to recover.
3mm as a test gap for a spark is a bit short I can get 10mm.
Bear in mind if you can only get 3mm in air you may not have
enough voltage to get a spark in the plug under compression, as
the voltage required depends on gas density.
#Post#: 99070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: kiwi s3 Date: September 28, 2015, 3:45 am
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Thanks everyone, some excellent advice here. I've had a go at
most things on the Landrover, but distributors and carburettors
have always seemed a black art. From these posts, I've now got
a better idea of the coil / distributor and will do some more
checks tomorrow night. I only had a couple of minutes this
evening, so tried to see if it would start (cold coil), but
still nothing.
More posts to come, once I have some test results.
Cheers,
Mark,
Wellington, NZ.
#Post#: 99071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped, won't start.
By: spitfiremk1uk Date: September 28, 2015, 4:28 am
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It sounds contradictory but the fact it still fails to start
means the problem is still present. It also means suggestions
and guesses about coils overheating need not be worried about
because it simply doesnt work at present.
Your fault is just waiting to be found.
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