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#Post#: 98294--------------------------------------------------
Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: 73S3BLIMEY Date: July 3, 2015, 7:47 pm
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I was wondering if anyone had ever mounted a belt driven
supercharger such as the Aisin 500 off of a Subaru onto a 2.25L
petrol?
If so what type/brand, how and does it work?
By now you are now saying "WTF, WHY?"
My rover lives at 6000' (1828 meters) and where I would like to
run it is up hill from there.
So a new 2.25 L Petrol supposedly puts out about 73 HP. If mine
was new, which it isn't, it would have maybe have 59 HP when I
start it and about 46 HP on top of the mountain to the West of
me. About 3% loss in HP per 1000 feet (305 meters).
I would like to keep it more or less stock, so not thinking
seriously about a diesel conversion. Also LHD steering gear
supposedly leaves no room for the turbo on a 200 TDI.
#Post#: 98295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: Arjan Date: July 4, 2015, 12:54 am
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Hmm....
I was always lead to believe that a supercharger itself uses
anything between 20 - 35 HP to operate, so the gain has to be at
least 40 HP or more to make it do something. That's a lot, esp.
if the engine is worn..
If the altitude is the problem, they're different options I'd
consider.
- Full Engine tune up
- Fuel Injection
- Different engine
- Engine Conversion - Tdi's do fit LHD vehicles...
We spent a lot of time between 6.000 and 10.000 feet and took
the 2.5 diesel N/A there without many problems.
Have Fun.
#Post#: 98296--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: spitfiremk1uk Date: July 4, 2015, 2:45 am
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It can all be done and there are the odd examples from many
years ago.
The modern versions use a multi groove drive belt and
centrifugal turbine wheel. Better than a turbo at low revs but
still hard to match the idle up torque of the old roots style
blowers.
Make sure you use an intercooler and a good condition 7:1 engine
would love it and would probably be reliable enough.
Your biggest issue is fueling. Programable injection would
abviously be the best choice but blow through carbs have been
used in the past.
a lot of work. A lot of research and development to be done to
make it reliable and worthwhile.
One of the best tuning tips for altitude would be compression
ratio. get the compression ratio up to 9:1 and make sure your
carb is jetted properly for altitude. Exhaust Lambda sensors
work best for this and you can check real world driving
conditions and change carb jetting to suit. That would be my
personal starting place. SU carbs have an element of altitude
adjustment but that would be my next step rather than the first.
#Post#: 98299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: 73S3BLIMEY Date: July 4, 2015, 12:04 pm
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Appreciate the responses. Both different plans of attack, but
in line with what I was thinking.
I love tinkering but hate going down dead end roads.
These Aisin supercharges are billed as mini roots blowers and
the guts look like a roots more than a belt driven turbo.
My uneducated mind said, if you are pushing the same amount of
air all of the time, the mixture would stay the same regardless
of altitude. So it is just about pushing the same amount of
air, not sure how that is possible, but that was my convoluted
thinking.
I have an old superchager off of a Studebaker Hawk that I have
been eyeing but it is about the size of a soccer ball and it may
be the turbine style, and probably pushes too much air.
#Post#: 98316--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: spitfiremk1uk Date: July 5, 2015, 8:27 am
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If you use a "suck through" carb system then you can change jets
as per normal tuning. But this means fuel and air is being
passed through your pipe work and supercharger. Not always a
good thing for many reasons!
If you use a "blow through" carb system then to make the carb
work you will have to pressurize the whole carb inside and out
and do things like up the fuel pressure to compensate. The risk
with this system is that any leaks causes fuel to fire around
your engine bay and you will still have tuning issues with
jetting.
First things first "air" is not an accurate thing. An engine
requires oxegen to burn. The amount of oxegen is less per cube
amount at altitude because air is less dense. So the same
amount of air contains less oxegen. Therefore the carb needs to
supply less fuel for the same VOLUME of air but less oxegen.
The volume of air pushed by a supercharger is normally
controlled by size and fine tuned with gearing on the belts
drive.
This is not going to sound friendly but if you are contemplating
such a conversion without fully understanding what is required
or the implications of getting it wrong then I think you are in
for a very expencive time and managing to destroy engines in the
process.
Yes its all possible. Most people know enough to destroy engines
trying to achieve it. If you are intent on doing it then go find
yourself a supercharging specialist and get him to fit the
system and set it up on a rolling road for you.
#Post#: 98320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: 73S3BLIMEY Date: July 5, 2015, 12:50 pm
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I appreciate honesty, absolutely did not hear anything
unfriendly. It helped me to understand that it could get worse
than running rough as I had figured might happen. But if you
quit dreaming, and quit saying " I wonder if?" life becomes
quite boring.
It sounds like Arjan's ideas are way closer to realistic.
Thanks again to both of you for taking time to help me.
#Post#: 98322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: DarrenH Date: July 5, 2015, 12:54 pm
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same as spitfire really. ive often stared at the standard
manifold and thought to myself "garret flange could be welded on
there dead easy"
the mechanics of it is easy, (accurate) fuelling is the hard
bit.
#Post#: 98329--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: Krazykev Date: July 6, 2015, 6:00 am
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There's a great book on this by Alan Allard called turbocharging
& Supercharging which gives DIY examples & what needs to be
considered. It's quite an old book & has the sort of info you
need. It must be quite cheap on EBay
#Post#: 98330--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: NoelC Date: July 6, 2015, 6:41 am
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On the left hooker Tdi point one of my planned projects is to
Tdi a LHD 109 series 3 I have. Initially I was going to do the
LHD lightweight I also have but I think that'll be kept
standard.
A 200Tdi will go into a LHD series providing you fit a 200Tdi
Defender manifold and turbo assembly. Unlike the 300Tdi which
was the same in both Defender and Disco there were significant
differences between the two applications for the 200Tdi. AFAIK
this allows the fitment of a Steve Parker exhaust system for the
2.5 turbo engine to be fitted as that has the same setup as
200Tdi Defender.
One thing I have sourced recently is a LHD Range Rover P38 power
steering box. This should simplify the steering gear a bit and
hopefully provide sufficient clearance to use the Disco 200Tdi
engine mountings. Having had a 200Tdi RHD lightweight recently
the vibrations were awful to say the least, I'm hoping using the
proper mounts will reduce this somewhat.
Juding by the gen on Steve Parker's website converting to PAS
should also allow the fitment of a 300Tdi with it's own
manifolds to fit into a left hooker.
#Post#: 98354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Has anyone put a supercharger on a 2.25 L petrol engine??
By: spitfiremk1uk Date: July 7, 2015, 12:48 pm
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A picture showing a roots blower directly onto the top of a
manifold and using a "suck through" carb set up in the form of a
single stromberg.
HTML https://www.flickr.com/photos/homer----simpson/4127059159
The down side of this set up is the inlet charge gets very hot
so it expands making the charge less dense/less oxegen. Because
of this you need to run a higher boost than if you had a cool
inlet charge. This also makes combustion temperatures much
higher and the engine more prone to detonation. Cooler is always
better! Hence intercoolers.
The more ideal situation would be something like this. A
centrifugal blower, running programable fuel injection and
mappable programmable timing... This example being even more
special because I think they tried gas as well!
HTML http://www.legionlandrover.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13348&start=10&sid=21300cb8d1992cdba2f3cdd18c7287f1&mobile=mobile
Not quite your average landy!!! And I would suggest not a
project for anyone who doesnt want to go the whole hog!
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