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#Post#: 95819--------------------------------------------------
Differential Pinion Shims, Oil Seal and Such
By: Correus Date: January 27, 2015, 9:01 pm
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Hello Everyone!
I’m in need of some serious help in regard to the differential
pinion oil seal and such.
So many weird questions have popped up but I’ll try to keep them
as few as possible. I’m in no way shape or form a mechanic so
please bear with me as I try to explain the issues/problems.
The Rover in question is a 1963 SIIa 88.
Vehicle serial # 24406929A
Engine serial # 25140728C
Gearbox serial # 2514664B
The Green Bible’s parts book says that the differential style is
for the front and rear Rover axles suffix A-G. That's plain and
simple and easy to understand.
Question #1 –
There are some parts within the differential that are different
based on the suffix. For example, if you need to replace the
differential pinion inner bearing you order one number for
suffix "A" and another for suffix "B" onwards. Since the
differential is part of the drive train it would make sense, at
least to me, that you use the suffix code associated with the
gearbox - in my case that would be "B". Is this correct?
Currently I'm working on the swivel balls and hubs but am
waiting for some parts to arrive before finishing them. I
figured I could go ahead and get started on replacing the oil
seals and such on the differentials. When the rear differential
end plate/oil seal retainer/mud shield assy unit (part #236547)
came off, the pinion inner bearing came off with it.
Attached to the outer side of the bearing (the end facing the
drive shaft) was a washer. This washer has two different
designations; thrust washer (part #231242 suffix “A”) or
differential Spacer (part # 539745 suffix “B” onwards). Attached
to the inner facing side of the bearing were the remains of
various sized shims. Several of the shims are so worn there are
even holes in them and some of the shims disintegrated into
pieces. Some of these pieces are so thin they become almost
invisible when you look at them from the side! The stack of
shims is somewhere between 1/8 - 1/4 inches tall and there are 7
in various shapes of “intact” and 2 or 3 in pieces.
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/20150126_135057_resized_1.jpg
Question #2 –
Is it possible to buy a set of assorted shims like you can for
the swivel ball Railko? All I'm finding are individual shims
from a couple of suppliers and the prices are around $1.30 -
$7.95 for each shim and one of them is even $19.00! It seems
like someone would sell a set since you have to play with the
pinion in order to figure out how many you need like; just like
you have to do with the Railko ones.
Question #3, #4 & #4a –
In regard to the pinion shims… The manual talks about a
"pre-load" of 7-12 pounds in regard to the pinion and the shims.
Was there a part that created the "pre-load"? There is a part
in the exploded parts view in the parts book; it’s listed as
502248 suffix "A" NLS (it could be 602248 - smudged printing),
was this the "pre-load" part? If so, it could still be attached
to that stack of washers - there appears to be a thicker one on
them.
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/20150127_193501_resizedB.jpg
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/PinionParts3.jpg
The following photo shows how the parts off my Rover match the
post "Suffix A" diagram. However, I'm wondering if the shim
closest to the differential planetary gears (the biggest shim)
is actually the missing mystery shim 502248 suffix "A".
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/Land-Rover-Series-II-IIA-III-Drivetrain-Differential-Schematicc.jpg
There was a metal clad oil seal inside the differential end
plate/oil seal retainer/mud shield assy unit with "275124"
stamped on it. I could not find that number associated with LR
but I did one with Volvo. The original part number for the seal
is 217507 but the replacement is FRC4586. The replacement part
looks nothing like the original and isn't as thick either. It
appears that the thrust washer/differential spacer rides up
against the oil seal. Since the original oil seal is covered
with metal it appears that the thrust washer/differential spacer
didn’t damage the seal. This leads me to my next question.
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/20150126_175415_resizedA.jpg
Question #5 & #6 –
The new seal is covered in rubber and the lip end faces the
pinion inner bearing and the thrust washer/differential spacer
would be shoved up against it. Since the lip end is the hollow
end, and it’s made of rubber, what keeps the thrust
washer/differential spacer from chewing the new oil seal up? Is
there a better oil seal I should be looking at? I haven’t found
a metal clad oil seal available for my differential type. AB
has one that looks to be the same size as the metal clad one but
it is also covered in rubber - Item: 65 (Same Fit As Part #
FRC4586 )
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/FRC4586-Topa.jpg
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/Item65SameFitAsPartFRC4586.jpg
Question #7 & #8 –
As to that thrust washer/differential spacer…the one that came
out with the bearing is a little thicker than a quarter. The
replacement part for “suffix A” is 231242 and I haven’t been
able to find a picture of it. The one for “suffix B onwards” is
539745 and is a LOT thicker. This is one of the reasons I asked
about the suffixes at the beginning. Which part should be used?
If part #539745 is the correct one how will the extra
length/thickness affect the pinion and all the other parts on
it? Something of note - John Craddock Ltd says the part didn't
start to be used until 1965.
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/20150127_124158_resizedB.jpg
HTML http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l236/Correus/DifferentialSpacerPart539745.jpg
So – can any of you help shed some light on these things?
Thanks for all of the help!
#Post#: 95822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Differential Pinion Shims, Oil Seal and Such
By: divie Date: January 28, 2015, 3:37 am
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Hmmm. whilst we get our heads around that lot pop in to the say
hello section. Let us know where you are, someone may be close.
I have only ever changed the oil seals on the diffs, if they are
really bad I get hold of another one. Plentiful over here.
#Post#: 95828--------------------------------------------------
Re: Differential Pinion Shims, Oil Seal and Such
By: Serious Series Date: January 28, 2015, 11:48 am
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Axle number would have been stamped on casing rear top I
believe.
Is that spacer not one that is crushed when torqued up?
The original oil seal will have been metal cased leather seal I
believe they are still available , but the new ones work ok.
#Post#: 95914--------------------------------------------------
Re: Differential Pinion Shims, Oil Seal and Such
By: Harry2a Date: February 2, 2015, 3:48 pm
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Don't have a manual to hand, but I think the shims in the rover
diff are inbetween the bearings to set the pre-load like on
hgvs, They space the bearings apart to push them into their
respective cones. When the manual mentioned the poundage preload
does it say somthing about how to measure it? Possibly with a
spring balance and price of string? They will be differnt
thickness on nearly every single diff, to allow for differnces
in the casing. So It's important you get this right or the
bearings will pack up pretty soon. When dealing with the pinion
the height is also important as this is how much the gear meshes
with the crown wheel.
The pinion preload and height is the hardest part to set, the
crown wheel is adjusted by turning the threaded parts each side
of the bearings.
There's no crush spacer, that's on the Salisbury type.
As for the oil seal. The seal shouldn't act as a barrier to
internal components, just oil, as the drive flange should hold
the oil thrower back. so the rubber ones should be fine.
#Post#: 99312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Differential Pinion Shims, Oil Seal and Such
By: D4B Date: October 15, 2015, 12:45 pm
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Re the rear diff oil seal, I have exactly the same set up on my
Series 3............
The standard replacement oil seal seemed to do the trick no
probs so far.
[URL=
HTML http://s650.photobucket.com/user/ministretch/media/Series%203%20Land%20Rover/2015-10-12%2011.46.28_zpsm3lz0fwc.jpg.html][IMG]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu230/ministretch/Series%203%20Land%20Rover/2015-10-12%2011.46.28_zpsm3lz0fwc.jpg[/img][/URL]
[URL=
HTML http://s650.photobucket.com/user/ministretch/media/Series%203%20Land%20Rover/2015-10-12%2011.46.18_zpsm9er8phl.jpg.html][IMG]http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu230/ministretch/Series%203%20Land%20Rover/2015-10-12%2011.46.18_zpsm9er8phl.jpg[/img][/URL]
Cheers Steve
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