gopher.createaforum.com/1/forums/ollr/p/8569

DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Old Leafsprung Land Rovers
HTML https://ollr.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Technical tips &amp; Questions
*****************************************************
#Post#: 92380--------------------------------------------------
Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: Gozo_Joseph
Date: August 30, 2014, 1:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi.
Just replaced a suffix A gearbox in my series 3.
The replacement was rebuild this same summer by myself using as
much as possible geniune bearings and seals (bearings labelled
as Made in Italy - so durability is questionable and delivers an
upsetting feeling already.)
The Gearbox was in my hands and was driven on the other land
rover i have. i just thought of rebuilding the non runner and
swapping to reduce down time. The gearbox's niggles where
leaking rear seal into T case and all three flat springs on the
3rd 4th speed missing. on inspection all gears seemed fine apart
from the reverse gear train. the shaft was badly worn and also
needle bearing was falling apart. the teeth on the lay shaft
appeared ok even if there is some sort of depression - wear on
them like hooked sort off but not so deep. the idler gear did
know show such marks. but the gears were not that straight. the
outer member on the first second synchroniser were slightly
rounded. but at the moment of strip down i thought "i never had
bad moments with the reverse gear train when in use so i just
replace the evidently worn shaft and needle bearing"
Initial test runs are good - no grinding smacking and
frightening sounds. Only concerns are 3rd and 4th selection is a
bit tough and sluggish. I am trying not to rush the shifts on
all forward gears giving it its time.
THE PROBLEM APPEARED NOW WHEN REVERSING UP A SLIGHT GRADIENT.
The gear stick starts to tremble a bit and after few meters pops
out of gear. no matter how hard i hold it in.
It does not jump out upon jerking the accelerator pedal on flat
road driving in reverse..
Today i removed top to examine the selector fork and check if i
snapped a tooth. appears that teeth are all there. but selector
fork is kind of worn unevenly on one end of its 'C' the with is
5.5mm and the other is roughly 4.5 or bit more.
Just checked for the parts.
layshaft suffix D - available 231 GBP (300ish Euros)
1st2nd synchroniser - available 164 GBP (200ish Euros)
Reverse gear kit which includes gear and bits - available 47 GBP
(55ish Euros)
the prices are for supposedly genuine items. the Britpart items
are half the prices. but i am not even considering it. i dont
konw what to look for now. do i go the 'change the reverse gear
only' route or all the bits. My land rover is my regular runner
so i dont want to get on some poor parts and end up paying more
later for newer parts - if they are still available.
joseph
#Post#: 92399--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: kev
Date: August 31, 2014, 7:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Not really much help, but my Series 3 once had the same problem,
I ended up getting a second hand 'box and swapping it.
How available are spares in your part of the world?
#Post#: 92402--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: Gozo_Joseph
Date: August 31, 2014, 8:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
i am leaning onto the idea of just getting the idler. i think.
the wear on the shaft was causing the gear to be driven on an
axis that was off/tilted away from layshaft making its teeth
wear in this fashion ">" hence the speed coming off under load
(being pushed forward finding its easy way out.) i dont think
layshaft and synchroniser outer member are that bad.
I have put in 300 euros of bearings into it. the other gearbox a
suffix A was not that bad just not smooth 3rd and 4th speed. and
leaked badly enough and needs bearings too.
I will give it another try. you can get spare boxes here. but
knowing the unloving attitude towards these vehicles i doubt
getting a half decent one :( mostly lacked regular servicing and
were used behind perkins 3.3 litre lumps.
i just wished to have a decent suffix D inside it as i was
leaning into getting a tdi or td or the sort in the future.
pictures of replaced shaft. and the teeth on the layshaft. the
groove/wear can be seen.
[URL=
HTML http://s331.photobucket.com/user/roveritis/media/Laika%20Land%20Rover%20series%203%20109%201977/Image348.jpg.html][IMG]http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l479/roveritis/Laika%20Land%20Rover%20series%203%20109%201977/Image348.jpg[/img][/URL]
joe
#Post#: 92409--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: Pageant Blue 109 V8
Date: August 31, 2014, 12:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Joseph - both those components in the photo are scrap.
Never use or reuse gears or shafts where the case hardening has
failed.
You will just be taking the GB apart again later, and replacing
any new gears you fitted last time.
#Post#: 92416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: Gozo_Joseph
Date: August 31, 2014, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
i am just concerned about the fact that the layshaft cluster
would then end up being new and the other gears on the
main-shaft being used and so induce uneven wear in the teeth.
i was also interested in buying all concerned gears..
at the same time.. getting such layshaft from britpart (in
region of 50 GBP would still be lame. )
joseph
#Post#: 92423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: espacekiller
Date: August 31, 2014, 5:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If it helps I got a genuine reverse idler stuff from P A
Blanchards for a good price but you would have to check the part
numbers.
#Post#: 92425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: Gozo_Joseph
Date: August 31, 2014, 5:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The question now is change layshaft or not... the teeth in
picture belong to it.
thanks espacekiller. is it a bearing type ? FRC 1810 i belive.
kev is crossing to malta on the 10th of sept :)
back to topic to determine if i go change the layshaft or not.
since the teeth are pitted but stil straight cut.
is the layshaft and inner outermember in constant mesh? or not?
Joseph
#Post#: 92426--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: espacekiller
Date: August 31, 2014, 7:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to see much detail in the photo but it doesn't look
to bad to me, the teeth look in pretty good shape, as it is only
reverse it is unlikely to get the same hammer as the forwards
gears I would be tempted to reuse the layshaft.
#Post#: 92435--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: Gozo_Joseph
Date: September 1, 2014, 4:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
hi all i don t know if this is a God's send or luck.. though i
doubt it is the latter.. i am so bad at being lucky. :P
I came through this
HTML http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=75814
sorry it is another forum but seems like the same problem i have
spot on. and it does feel tight-ish in my opinion - the
lay-shaft i mean. Oh well sod it i am lifting the box out. at
least i know that all the bolts were fitted with a dab of grease
on them maybe they come out easily perhaps i need to invest in
an air powered ratchet for this occasions to save my wrists. i
hope it is ok
i do recall now the layshaft bearing was not ordered from a land
rover supplier but from a local bearing supplier .. suposedly
with good reputation. maybe the whole thing is jsut tight. lets
see ;)
joseph
#Post#: 92465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gearbox rebuild - Gutted :(
DIR By: Gozo_Joseph
Date: September 2, 2014, 1:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello..
Gearbox out and apart again.... :gay:
some photos of the parts.
[URL=
HTML http://s331.photobucket.com/user/roveritis/media/Laika%20Land%20Rover%20series%203%20109%201977/Image358.jpg.html][IMG]http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l479/roveritis/Laika%20Land%20Rover%20series%203%20109%201977/Image358.jpg[/img][/URL]
The layshaft reverse teeth appear straight enough to me so i
will keep as is.
The concern is now on the selector fork. it has uneven wear the
difference is of about a 1 mm from each side (i think 5.5mm on
one side and 4.5 on other)
[URL=
HTML http://s331.photobucket.com/user/roveritis/media/Laika%20Land%20Rover%20series%203%20109%201977/Image360.jpg.html][IMG]http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l479/roveritis/Laika%20Land%20Rover%20series%203%20109%201977/Image360.jpg[/img][/URL]
Do you think it can live with that?
BY THE WAY just found out that i inserted the thrust washer for
first speed incorrectly with the groves facing the bearing and
not the bush... :2mo5pow: dont know if it can cause any
binding/reduce endfloat on the mainshaft? I am also ordering a
new conical distance piece and testing the layshaft for rotation
in gearbox minus layshaft to see if it is turning too tight or
it has some tight spots. i can adapt them by sanding them
slightly i guess.
Oh well.. i need to sort tools now and wait for confirmation of
order of bits.
joe
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page