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#Post#: 89881--------------------------------------------------
Heater Upgrade
DIR By: ferretjuggler
Date: June 24, 2014, 3:33 pm
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While doing the NS footwell on my'70 SWB diesel, I've decided
to get on with something I've been considering for a while.
I'm adding a series three heater blower and matrix in addition
to the flat Smiths unit inside the cab.
This might seem like overkill but I'm particularly proud of the
flat heater, it's in mint condition.
The trouble is that it can only just cope with clearing the
screen.
I'm left freezing my nuts off in winter.
Hopefully, the extra heater will dump enough hot air into the
vehicle to make things nice and toasty even in freezing
temperatures.
I'm modifying the matrix box to flow air straight through a hole
cut in the upper face of the footwell.
Might get a bit warm for a front seat passenger.
Too bad! They can always jump in the back if they don't like
it.
The basic idea is that without all the convoluted ducts and
hoses of the S3 I should get a good heat output.
Now comes the problem.
How do I plumb it?
First plan was to connect the two heaters in series, hot into
the flat heater first.
Then I'm thinking that it might get too hot, even with the S3
blower off.
Might need an independent control over the coolant flow through
the S3 unit
Not really sure how to go about this.
A couple of ball valves maybe?
I'm looking for something simple and cheap
I really don't want a plumbing nightmare under the bonnet.
Any ideas please?
#Post#: 89885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: NoelC
Date: June 24, 2014, 4:57 pm
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Rear heaters were options on series 2s and if you peruse a 60s
optional equipment catalogue the way the water got to the heater
was involved in terms of the number of pipes and connections but
simple to understand.
Personally I'd scrap adding the series 3 heater idea for the
following reasons:
1) Series 3 heaters are crap, unless you make a "Frankenheater"
- there was a tech thread on this some time ago
2) Chopping the bulkhead about really isn't ideal, nor is having
the luke warm air all delivered at the passengers feet
3) Technology has moved on leaps and bounds since the series 3
4) Water heaters need lots of hot water to work well, and a
series doesn't make much in winter
Many smaller engined modern cars don't have water involved in
heating the car interior, certainly the 83mpg (allegedly) Kias
don't. They have a ceramic electric heater and my former
colleague who bought one said it was the mutts nuts, instant
heat without the engine having to warm up and toasty warm. This
is the type of thing I mean -
HTML http://shop.kcpcarandcommercial.co.uk/epages/100080302.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/100080302/Products/HEA001
HTML http://shop.kcpcarandcommercial.co.uk/epages/100080302.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/100080302/Products/HEA001
Perhaps a more powerful alternator would be necessary depending
on how large you want to go but it seems a better angle to
approach the problem from, at least to me.
#Post#: 89908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: a twig
Date: June 25, 2014, 4:52 am
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Only downside of a non-water based heater is losing the ability
to additionally cool your long suffering engine in heavy traffic
(at the expense of several litres of sweat usually!) :haha:
#Post#: 89915--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: StuartN
Date: June 25, 2014, 6:41 am
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+1 twig, that is a trick that does come in very handy...
S
#Post#: 89920--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: divie
Date: June 25, 2014, 7:25 am
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eberspacher, you know it makes sense. Robin (RMS) over on
seriously series site has some Chinese copies for sale.
I use a D5 Eberspacher heater as a workshop heater. With you
running a diesel you can run from the main tank, they only sip a
little bit of fuel.
#Post#: 89921--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: RMS
Date: June 25, 2014, 7:49 am
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--- Quote from: divie link ---
>
> eberspacher, you know it makes sense. Robin (RMS) over on The
Caravan Club site has some Chinese copies for sale.
> I use a D5 Eberspacher heater as a workshop heater. With you
running a diesel you can run from the main tank, they only sip a
little bit of fuel.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm still on here as well :smilewide:
Threads on the heaters are
HERE on LRCC
HTML http://www.rms1.co.uk/lrcc/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=633&start=20#p4425
HERE on S2C
HTML http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/forum/index.php/topic,70116.msg643470.html#msg643470
I'm sure I posted it on here as well - do "Sales" posts expire
and disappear?
Cheers,
Robin.
#Post#: 89945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: GlenAnderson
Date: June 25, 2014, 5:37 pm
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A 300W electric heater will be useless. The flat Smiths heater
was nominally rated at 2KW and, as you say, they're not
brilliant. Not only will the electric one put out little more
than 1/6th of the heat of the Smiths, it'll pull more than 5
headlights worth of power.
You can get better heaters to plumb into your existing hot water
than a series 3 type. Look at some of the stuff that the kitcar
boys use. Certainly you'll be able to find something that'll
either be easier to conceal, or a lot less shit looking if it
needs to be on show.
The performance of any hot water heater is dependant on a
healthy supply of hot water though, something Landy engines
aren't brilliant at in the depths of winter. I've a Webasto
Thermo-Top unit that gives me near instant heat, as well as
pre-heating on a timer. It works well, but wasn't cheap. What it
does though, is leave the cabin looking totally stock other than
the controller as all the gibbons is under the bonnet, which is
important to me.
Blown hot air diesel powered heaters also work well, and if
comfort heating is more important than engine pre-heating, and
you don't mind having the unit in the cabin somewhere, they'll
out perform a water-heating one in terms of fuel burned and
electricity consumed, for the same heat in the cab.
The biggest thing, I found, was to get on top of all the drafts
and missing seals around the cab. This winter I'm hoping to get
some kind of bulkhead behind the front seats, as well as
insulating the roof and doors properly, but I've been saying
that for a couple of decades now!
#Post#: 89955--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: Doug_T
Date: June 26, 2014, 8:06 am
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--- Quote from: NoelC link ---
>
> 1) Series 3 heaters are crap.
>
--- End Quote ---
That's a little harsh isn't it? After all the best factory
fitted heater ever is found under the bonnet of certain Series
3s...
...It's just they take the form of a 3528cc 8-cylinder engine!
Joking aside, Glen makes a very valid point; the engines aren't
exactly renowned for being able to supply lots of heat when the
ambient temperatures drop, and if you're considering uprating
the standard water heater on a 2286cc diesel you may want to
consider fitting a radiator muff as well or your engine may end
up running very cold.
#Post#: 89964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: ferretjuggler
Date: June 26, 2014, 2:17 pm
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Thanks for all the input.
I'm ruling out any sort of diesel burning heater simply on
grounds of cost and suspect durability.
£350-500 for something which may only last 2 years is way OTT to
me.
If I were going to sleep in the vehicle that would be different.
Whatever I fit will be hot water powered.
I have to sort of agree and disagree about the S3 heater.
I rate the blower as good, the matrix is a bit on the small
size ( but probably all they could squeeze in the limited space
)
The ducts in the dash are a sad BL joke.
Just look at the pathetic little footwell vents
The big problem with the Diesel engine is that it makes very
little heat at tick over.
So you can fire it up on a cold winters morning, leave it
running on the drive for 15 minutes, and it will still only be
luke warm.
Once you are driving it and it's burning fuel it will soon get
hot.
Radiator Muff and heated windscreen glass is my solution.
I'm now sort of moving on to a plan B
Hybrid second heater using possibility a S3 blower with an
aluminium car matrix.
Better heat transfer and practically unnoticed in the vehicle (
just a 3" hole in the upper footwell )
#Post#: 89975--------------------------------------------------
Re: Heater Upgrade
DIR By: NoelC
Date: June 26, 2014, 5:55 pm
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We fitted Webasto diesel burning heaters to the cabs of our old
Metrobuses and I was less than impressed with their reliability.
Perhaps that's down to multiple drivers not really knowing how
to use them plus the abuse typical of what a bus receives, I
don't know.
Taking into account the cost of £600 per unit and the high
failure rate in the end we plumbed in an extra water heater
behind the drivers seat at under £100 per unit. Being Gardner
powered the engine water wasn't exactly hot, just like a series,
plus it took a long time to warm up so that problem was never
addressed but they were better than nothing.
It's the initial heating where something non-water powered has
the edge. On a cold morning I used to point the workshop rocket
heater in the door of the bus for a few minutes. It was
something insane like 200,000 BTUs - now I obviously don't
expect an electric ceramic to be a patch on that, or match the
water heater in terms of output (at least not the aftermarket
ones) but it helps to take the edge off. A standard domestic fan
heater plugged into the mains I've been known to resort to in
the real cold and that defrosts the screens pretty quick.
I'm dead against running vehicles for any period of time from a
cold start, I wondered why my Metrobus went from using a litre
or so of oil every six weeks to a gallon a week. The reason was
a colleague thought he was being helpful by starting it up and
let it tick over for half an hour before I got into work.
Evidently very bad for it judging by the oil consumed. One thing
that hasn't been mentioned is a Kenlowe hotstart or other engine
pre-heater - worth considering?
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