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#Post#: 88985--------------------------------------------------
Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: June 4, 2014, 3:16 pm
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I mooted that I should do proper, proper thread on sorting out
your brakes, right form getting the stock drums to work as they
were designed, and perhaps upgrading them to the later S3 servo
and larger drums set-up, going right up the full gay disc
option. Now rather than write what I have down in my mind as the
definitive way to do these things, Wooden reckoned it would be
better to pool our combined knowledge. If I wrote it my way I'd
only get contradicted by time and events anyway. Decent brakes
are a msut and I'd be betting that many of you, MOT certificate
in hand or not have less than spot-on brakes. Proper brakes
don't pull. Done right they're a joy to use. I'm a fan of gays
but drums is good. In fact if discs is not an option, I reckon
setting up any leafer with the later drum set-up is a must. We
need to cover springs and beleeding yadda yadda
The rules to thsi thread, write what you know, not what you
think, this is brakes, no bullshitters please. It is written on
the basis of a daily driver. For that you need brakes. I'll
kick-off with four:
1) This is a blue-box free zone. Use genuine or use
reconditioned used parts in decent condition. Never use Shitpart
- particulary on brakes.
2) Snails. Ebay snails for a tenner are shit. Made of Cheese you
want the Bearmach branded ones at £25.00 (genuine are £110.00
when I last looked) They lok the same as those in a green box,
to the point that I'm fairly sure they are the same.
3) if you upgrade to discs, you'll need to upgrade your servo
away from anythign ever fitted to a series to make-up for the
self-servo effect you lost when removing those drums.
4) I'm a big fan of the Heystee servo. Bigger than stock, you'll
not need to hack about the inner wing to fit it.
Keep 'em comin'
#Post#: 88986--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: ashcrroft752
Date: June 4, 2014, 3:24 pm
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I write requesting information, I've replacement snails on the
rear and I've never been sure that they were fitted with the
snail the right way round, same goes for the plumbing of the M/C
for SWB TLS set up.
#Post#: 88989--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: Doug_T
Date: June 4, 2014, 3:59 pm
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Badly adjusted 109 rear brakes lead to long pedal travel on some
vehicles. There is a Land Rover service bulletin for adjusting
them that sorts this out, perhaps it could be included here?
#Post#: 88999--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: June 5, 2014, 3:14 am
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5) Yes thanks to Doug we have the fifth. As Doug says, tightly
adjusted snails cuts down the pedal travel. Long travel uses up
half your servo-vacuum so that you've none left or less for
actual braking. Doh! This should have been No.1. More so if you
have a disc-conversion on the front. I'll dig out my info on teh
Volvo S60 servo-pump mod. for this too. Standby
6) Now I've seen S3s with from what I recall is a brake fail
light indicator junction, and I think it give a dual circuit
brake function, but this makes for dificult bleediing, and
doesn't work well anyway. I ripped mine out and split the
circuits straight from the MC, but I'm hazy on this and its
wisdom, I did mine yonks ago. Under 6, can someone more
knowledgeable on terminolgy and logic to this, please jump in
and clarify this for all please. If I was wrong in dong thsi say
so, and definitively why.
7) Best way I've found to adjust snails is to get your
"Glamorous Assistant" to put her foot on the brakes and turn the
snails all the way on and then back off one or two clicks.
(Better than wearing out soft snails, quicker and more accurate)
Keep on top of your snails or you get 5)
The intention - to write a draft to be homogenised into a
definitve thread when the collective-wisdom on here has done its
bit...
Next contestant please.
#Post#: 89005--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: rangerovering
Date: June 5, 2014, 4:31 am
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Perhaps an addition of the alternative front piping for TLS,
whereby the line comes in at the bottom cylinder, then to the
top one. Makes for easier bleeding.
Of course if this is wrong and should not be on a vehicle please
say so, my own have been done this way and in the limited
running its had I haven't had problems. Can provide
pornograhpical imagery of said piping for those who like that
kind of thing (and also as a useful guide for those wishing to
do the same) :gay:
Looking forward to this thread, I am also of the opinion that
brakes should be spot on, no excuses.
#Post#: 89011--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: Jackual
Date: June 5, 2014, 7:21 am
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Assembling brake parts with the use of red rubber grease, or a
proper castor oil based rubber grease designed for use with
automotive braking parts, not the use of hygroscopic brake fluid
or oil-based seal destroying copper ease, Ok, copper ease is
alright to use between the pads and piston contact area on disc
brakes as an anti-squeal, but that's about it. People wonder why
seals fail and cylinders corrode & seize after a short time on
improperly lubricated hydraulic braking components. :thumbs:
#Post#: 89018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: rangerovering
Date: June 5, 2014, 9:13 am
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:thumbs: Good call Jackual not heard of that before. I used a
tiny bit of copper grease on the threads of unions to prevent
seizing but didn't know it could cause seal problems through
contamination
#Post#: 89046--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: Wild
Date: June 5, 2014, 3:44 pm
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I don't know too much about perfecting drum brakes, but i have
done a couple of disk brake conversions.
As mine is my only transport and does a fair mileage i decided
to go down the disks route. I looked at the various conversions
you can buy but wasn't entirely happy with parts availability
and price so I decided to design and make my own to use standard
land rover parts wherever possible.
During this process i have learnt allot about making a properly
working complete brake system, mainly that its more than just
the discs you need but everything to be matched to suit the
discs. I May be able to supply some info on this stuff if
wanted. I definitely agree with points 3 and 4, I tried a series
3 servo and whilst they do work with discs they are not really
up to the job, the Santana servo looks like the easiest
alternative but i made an adaptor plate to fit the coiler type
50 servo to the series pedal box, and that works brilliantly.
Other crucial points in a disk set-up are correctly matched
master cylinder and correct for'd/aft balance (g valve or
pressure limiter)
#Post#: 89058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: June 6, 2014, 6:12 am
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This is getting good. These should be written more tightly at
the finish. proper rubber grease, makes sense to me and I've
never heard of it. Has to be good for classic vehilces left
standing for longert htn is good for them too. Of course
copper-grease in appropriate palces.
Rangeroving: Not sure I get thsi one. Can you do a diagram or
tightnen up your explanation? Ta.
Wild. Sorry I can't give you "Discs" with a K. Dear me. But
Halle' fucking lujah!!. Someone here that actually gets it.
Brakes should be "everything to be matched to suit " thus in
balance. For fear of sounding patronising to some... Ergo.
8] Brakes Myth 1. Brakes the size of a barn-door be they drums,
discs or those bicycle stirrup ones will not be better. Bigger
brakes is not bigger braking. Period. Friction has been written
into the laws of physics, and is a factor of force, not area. In
the case of brakes, friction comes from moments of force. Thus
unless you increase either the force or moments thereof, you do
not increase friction. i don't care what colour you paint you
brake calipers, Barn door sized drums, discs do not make per se
increased braking. Hence why I bang on about the Heystee servo
[Or as Wild a Type 50] You need a larger servo to increase this
force. The only part large area plays in this is to disipate
heat, and make your pads or shoes last longer. As a by-product
of larger area, the moments might increase, however this because
the drum or disc will be a larger diameter, so the moments (or
leverage) increases, or in the case of drums the self-servo
effect will be greater. not because of area per se.
9] Brakes Myth 2. Proportiioning. Unless you put the increased
force ( you were listening weren't you?) in the right palce, you
will not have increased your braking so even with your lovely
Heystee or Debender large servo. 70% of the force needs to go to
the front. As the vehicle up-ends more force is at the front, so
your braking force needs to move accordingly. The ability of the
rear tyres to grip goes down just as the ability to grip at the
front goes up. Thus where would you want your barking force?
Modern cars do this with ABS. You will need to move away from
Series MCs. You will likely get involved in GVs and other
proportioning.
10] Brakes Myth 3. (In this context) Discs are better than
Drums. If all you've done is to remove a properly functioning
set of drums for a set of discs in a typical conversion, 'Do not
pass go, do not collect £200 pounds', you are a moron. To
improve your brakes put your drums back on. For the rest of you,
(who were listening) answers on a postcard please as to why this
is so. We shold string-up the culprits to this one for they are
many. For should they wish to kill themselves fine, should they
get an MOT for it... fine, but when they kill your loved ones'
coming the other way, you might agree with me. Cunts.
11] As suggested Copper-grease in the right palces, careful with
that stuff
12) Rubber grease - As appropriate, (we like) I shall Goolge
this one
Next contestant...
[Methinks - This is getting good. Very good. ]
#Post#: 89060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fuckwit's Tips for Sorting out your brakes ... Properly
DIR By: Wooden
Date: June 6, 2014, 9:02 am
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--- Quote from: rangerovering link ---
>
> I used a tiny bit of copper grease on the threads of unions to
prevent seizing
>
--- End Quote ---
:eek:
Careful using copper-grease on break pipe unions, where the
union is copper to steel. You'll never get them undone again.
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