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#Post#: 88189--------------------------------------------------
Sloooooooooow
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: May 13, 2014, 7:12 am
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Hi all,
I took my beastie to get a MOT last saturday (which did NOT go
according to plan) and to cut a long story shot, whereas it
seemed fine going (mostly all flat or down hill) on the way home
there were one or two issues. Basically, on the flat or down
hill there seems to be plenty of power and I can get into fourth
at around 20 MPH quite happily and trundle along. However going
up hill is a very different story. Even a very gentle incline
saw me dropping cogs frantically trying to keep the revs up and
at one stage I was in first going up a very gentle slope at
around 5 MPH with no power at all and the engine just would not
rev at all. Having had several 2.25 diesel Land Rovers over the
years I know this aint right. Any pointers? The engine seems
perfectly happy at low speeds and will rev perfectly otherwise.
Is this a timing thing? I can't see as there is any other issue.
I know there isn't a starvation issue, as that has been tested
already. The filter is new, the air hose is new also. If you're
looking down on the injector pump, the mark is right of the
pointer, if that makes sense, by I would say at least three
degrees. Not sure if that is any indication of anything? I have
been trying it in various positions to try and lose some of the
smoke but if I'm honest it doesn't matter what position the pump
is in it makes no observable difference to the amount of smoke
(although this isn't what I'd call excessive either)
I have another test booked for Saturday - help!!? Please? If
there is anyone in the immediate area (Dewsbury)who a) wouldn't
mind taking a look and b)know what they're doing I would be
eternally grateful.
#Post#: 88201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: mandylandy
Date: May 13, 2014, 12:24 pm
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If there's no smoke much I'd go for fuel pump problem.
Will give it more thought. :-?
#Post#: 88233--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: May 14, 2014, 4:18 am
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There is some smoke, just not excessive amounts. I have also
noticed that a good amount of moisture is coming out the exhaust
and it aint water, it's diesel. It's a good drip every two or
three seconds or thereabouts. The injectors have been 'done' at
a fuel shop, the pump I have no reason to suspect at all, as I
said sat on the drive the engine will happily rev all the way
and it will set off in third easily. It will drive ok and then
with no warning at all on even the slightest incline there is no
power whatsoever, revs drop and I have to go down the gears and
it crawls along until gradually the revs pick up again. I've
never seen anything like it.
#Post#: 88236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: SteamPunk
Date: May 14, 2014, 8:25 am
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Do you have the opportunity to drive a long hill backwards?
I'm not being facetious, I am hoping that if everything behaves
properly that will isolate the problem to issues relating to
tilting the engine backwards, which should reduce the playing
field.
Until you described the diesel coming out of the exhaust 'lift
pump' was my first thought, but less sure now :(. (going uphill
the suction head is increased).
I take it that you have run with the injectors since they were
rebuilt and can so be confident that they are not the problem?
I am not familiar with the 2.25 diesel specifically, I'm afraid.
When it begins to die does it produce smoke and what colour?
Also, if you ease off of the pedal slightly does performance
improve? Some governing devices can over-centre and begin
closing with an out of adjustment actuating mechanism. In other
words, when you put your foot down to tackle a hill, you lose
power :2mo5pow:
:-?
#Post#: 88239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: May 14, 2014, 11:00 am
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Not really, it's not officially on the road yet! Last Saturday
was my first opportunity to drive it more than the forty feet my
drive allows, and over that distance the problem does not
manifest.
When I got the Land rover five years ago, I took the injectors
out and had them 'fettled' at a reputable fuel shop, then I
refitted them. Apart from running on the drive from time to time
while I have been slowly getting it built it hasn't done any
miles since that time so I would not expect them to have worn or
suddenly broken in some way. Having said that it would be just
my luck for something like that to happen!
The pump is off a different later engine, kindly sold to me by a
member off here earlier last year. I have no reason to suspect
its condition, it came off a good working engine (well, until it
seized it was a good engine) and the tamper proof seals are
still in place so nobody has been inside it.
I think before I go any further I need to look more closely at
the lift pump, even if it's just to rule that out. Thank you
everyone so far. You're all diamonds.
#Post#: 88243--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: Albert Ross
Date: May 14, 2014, 1:21 pm
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Are you running the S2 rod throttle or the S3 cable arrangement?
Also, have you checked you're actually getting full throttle
with it pressed all the way to the deck? The reason I ask, is
that sometimes the engine mountings flex under load, but only
whilst actually driving.... do your gear levers move as you
operate the accelerator whist driving? Also.... injector pump
concerns.... inside the side cover, the throttle lever is
connected by a spring and a plate, and this link is adjustable.
All relative to spring tension and throttle lever position. One
has to be careful not to let it be slack, as the throttle then
"flutters" under partial load, as the mountings flex, especially
in off-road conditions. Any thoughts?
#Post#: 88249--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: mud
Date: May 14, 2014, 2:27 pm
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Have you changed the filter? Could be a load of shite been
sucked through if she's been sitting?
#Post#: 88250--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: divie
Date: May 14, 2014, 2:30 pm
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Have you got access to an injector test pump ? I had my
injectors fettled by a local company and was never happy with
the running. After buggering about with lift pump and trying my
spare injector pump to no avail. I borrowed a test pump and
found the injectors all over the place, instead of popping off
at 130/135 bar they where 155/165 or more on one. Once adjusted
the engine ran well, a little tweaking on timing the pump and no
smoke. The thing pulls like a train now.
Another area to look at is the butterfly flap if you have a
servo fitted, most are well worn and a bugger to set up. If so
bin it and fit an electric vacuum pump, a couple of hours work
is all they take to fit.
#Post#: 88256--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: SteamPunk
Date: May 14, 2014, 4:25 pm
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Agree with divie regarding the injectors, marine diesels don't
need to produce vacuum so not the foggiest about that.
Its time to start working through things in a logical order.
Lift pump first, and a timing check after that would be my
approach. If you are having raw fuel appearing on the exhaust
side act with care as a fire caused by afterburning is not
beyond the realms of possibility.
If the lift pump is providing insufficient fuel to the injector
pumps this can induce all manner of peculiar pressure
fluctuations which may also explain the unburnt fuel as a
consequence of poor atomisation.
Soooo.
Lift Pump, then timing check. If all is well there, injectors
are the next item on the list. Agricultural engineers (and
colleges) usually have injector testing equipment, presumably
heavy plant or HGV places could also help, getting a compression
test done at the same time wouldn't go amiss. After that we'll
begin to think injection pump.
And IMPORTANT, bear in mind that I am talking from a general
diesel standpoint and take my thoughts with a pinch of salt. If
it is some problem specific to this engine or its installation I
won't know about it! :rolleye0012:
#Post#: 88267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sloooooooooow
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: May 15, 2014, 3:44 am
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Well due to moving house soon and therefore being ridiculously
busy at other things I haven't had a chance to look at anything
last night.
The throttle is original S2a rod linkages. They're a bit worn on
the joints but still serviceable, I had the same thoughts about
throttle travel so with the engine off I checked by having the
throttle pedal held to the floor and then checked at the pump to
see if the lever had any more travel. It didn't so I am assuming
this is not the problem.
If I rev the engine hard there doesn't appear to be any movement
on the gear lever at a standstill, I confess, it being the first
time I've driven any distance on the road in a series Land Rover
for some time I had more on my mind last weekend than to even
notice if the speedo was working let alone see if there was any
indication of movement in the gear lever whilst driving, but I
don't think there was. I had a broken gearbox mount once, a long
time ago and I remember the symptoms whilst driving being quite
prominent.
Hopefully I will get some time tonight to fiddle with a few
things. I will check the lift pump first. The filter is ok, it's
new and was checked thoroughly last weekend. The story goes....
I had the MOT booked for 10.30 am Saturday morning. So, on
Friday evening I did a few last minute checks and ran the engine
to warm for a good half hour, looking for potential problems.
Same again early Saturday morning, ran the engine to warm up for
half an hour and then set off with plenty of time to cover the
short distance to the garage. Drove there with more or less zero
issues, in fact I was quite pleased. On arrival I was a bit
early so I popped my head out of the cab and asked where they'd
like me to park while it was my turn. They indicated I should
park over the road, just behind another Land Rover 109 that is
sometimes parked there. I've been driving past it for five years
and kept meaning to stop and enquire whose it was, like you do.
Never did though.
Anyway, just as I'd nicely parked up the engine cut out on it's
own. That's odd I thought, and sure enough it wouldn't start.
Bugger.
So after a very long crank it fired up, but stoppped
immediately. It did this every time I tried, refusing to fire
for any longer than a second or two. That's fuel I
thought..bugger again. I have nothing with me, no tools nothing.
What the hell am I going to do?
The garage weren't particularly helpful, they had no tools I
could borrow. I was begining to panic a bit. Then, I felt a
presence behind me. I looked and there was an older man,
clutching a small bunch of spanners in his hand, complete with
halo and wings round the back..."need an 'and?"
He checked the fuel filter, replaced a few of the seals and
copper washers as they were past their best. I manned the
primer. We checked for fuel at the injector pipes, checked for
any obvious leaks etc, checked everything we could think of. Two
hours in the pissing rain. Then I had a thought and began
suspecting the pick up pipe. Sure enough, there was a massive
air leak on the hose to the pipe - the jubilee clip had failed
and was basically doing bugger all. One clip later, ten minutes
bleeding etc and the engine fired and ran perferctly. But I'd
missed my slot and the garage were about to close. So after a
good chat with my saviour (who turned out to be some sort of
Land Rover fanatic and all round mechanical and electrical
genius) I headed home. That was when I noticed the issue. I have
checked and double checked everything that we did and nothing is
loose or not as it first was, so I believe the issue was always
there but just hadn't manifested previously because I'd not
tackled any hills.
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