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#Post#: 88059--------------------------------------------------
dual circuit brakes
DIR By: cornishbob
Date: May 10, 2014, 1:46 pm
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Evening all, does any one know if you can ID what sort master
cylinder i have ie whether it is from a lwb or swb the plastic
tag number is 68641-06-60/4027th and it is a Girling master
cylinder also I assume the 7/16 unf fitting goes to the front
brakes and the 3/8 to the rear any help would be great as I am
about to start converting to dual circuit and 11" front drums
#Post#: 88071--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: jessejazza
Date: May 10, 2014, 4:22 pm
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--- Quote from: cornishbob link ---
>
> Evening all, does any one know if you can ID what sort master
cylinder i have ie whether it is from a lwb or swb the plastic
tag number is 68641-06-60/4027th and it is a Girling master
cylinder also I assume the 7/16 unf fitting goes to the front
brakes and the 3/8 to the rear any help would be great as I am
about to start converting to dual circuit and 11" front drums.
--- End Quote ---
Assuming it's S3 - early ones had the CB (fat MC), later had the
CV (3/16" pipe at front, 1/4" pipe at rear to remote reservoir).
Some S3 had an integral MC for the clutch. I'm just redoing my
S3s brakes and staying with two CV MCs.
If you have a dual circuit MC then I think you'll have 3 or 4
pipes depending whether it's the remote or integral master
cylinder. My experience of dual circuit is that the MC doesn't
last as long as the Girling single circuit - thus not worth the
expense of dual circuit imo. Much more important is to use
kunifer piping and proper unions - too many 'garages' put metric
unions onto imperial brake hose. (That's what's on my S3 which
is why it's coming off).
Dual circuit is allegedly safer BUT rarely will a MC or slave
cylinder fail catastrophically - just weep fluid (which you'd be
aware of at the pedal before the brake shoe gets covered).
Kunifer will rarely fail although copper should be banned - it
work hardens and will flatten by a coke can or something thrown
up. If you are off roading I would consider dual circuit perhaps
but folk I know are all single circuit.
#Post#: 88075--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: cornishbob
Date: May 11, 2014, 2:27 am
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Thanks Jesse I 'm changing to this set up as i have a single
line system with an unidentifible remote servo that's playing
up( brakes hold on briefely after the pedal is released )
#Post#: 88080--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: jessejazza
Date: May 11, 2014, 6:02 am
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--- Quote from: cornishbob link ---
>
> Thanks Jesse I 'm changing to this set up as i have a single
line system with an unidentifible remote servo that's playing
up( brakes hold on briefely after the pedal is released )
--- End Quote ---
DON'T make work for yourself :smilewide:
Is the servo a Lockheed unit? Do a google... I bet it is. The
problem will be with the filter on top. £10-20 to replace -
common fault with them. Single circuit servos I think are better
than the dual circuit. Do yourself a favour... disconnect the
vacuum pipe and block off the pipe with a bolt. Take her for a
spin and assess whether you really want the servo! I reckon the
£250 isn't worth paying. Maybe you have a pattern one and thus
better off without. I've got one here you can have!
If you have an S3 better spending the money on a upgrading the
front drums to 11" - which is what you've said. Also consider
different friction linings for the shoes. A friend of mine does
lots of towing without a servo and reckons they're fine. I've
got a servo that I was going to put on but I am thinking of
upgrading to 11" SLS (S2 adjusters rather than TLS as I don't
like snail cam) adjusters. Servo only reduces the effort not
efficiency.
After the spin if you want the servo get a new filter before you
do anything else. it's a common problem with Scimitars and
E-types - easily rectified. With my Scimitar I decided not to
bother with the servo... but it has the 3-pot Girling calipers
which were on E-type, Jag 420, Aston DBS - way over braked for a
1.25 T motor compared with a 2T Jaq. I missed the servo on the
odd long towing trip and that was all.
Shame you don't live closer as i could do it for you.
#Post#: 88084--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: NoelC
Date: May 11, 2014, 6:44 am
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^^^ I'd agree with that. When the Girling Powerstop remote servo
gave up on the 2a 109 I did away with it, I now have extremely
keen brakes thanks to them being bled using the Rog176 G-clamp
method and adjusted correctly.
The servo only reduces pedal effort, granted modern non-asbestos
linings are shite in comparison to the proper old school ones
but they work well enough for me. I've been all over the place
in the 2a 109 ambulance stateside and never found the CB
non-servo set up lacking.
#Post#: 88090--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: cornishbob
Date: May 11, 2014, 10:56 am
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Thanks for the advice chaps so what master cylinder do you think
would suit may be an early s 2 lwb one? and would rear 11" back
plates work on the front? if I was'nt so full of red wine i'd go
out there now!
#Post#: 88106--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: jessejazza
Date: May 11, 2014, 4:07 pm
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--- Quote from: cornishbob link ---
>
> Thanks for the advice chaps so what master cylinder do you
think would suit may be an early s 2 lwb one? and would rear 11"
back plates work on the front? if I was'nt so full of red wine
i'd go out there now!
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm putting the Girling CV on for brake and clutch with two
separate reservoirs instead of the 'bean can'. Not sure about
the rear backplates as it depends on whether you have the snail
cam adjusters or the cone/triumph type (S2 rather than S2a).
As I understand it; folk put FRONT LWB plates from S2a TLS(I
think later S3 SWB had the same i.e. 11" TLS which is what you
are intending). Most folk then leave the rear 10" as they are.
Early S3 SWB had 10" SLS and 10" on the back. I am intending to
put S2 rear 11" plates with conical adjusters on the front i.e.
11" SLS. I may put the same on the rear but there may be a risk
of the rears 'locking up' which i have got to look into.
#Post#: 88117--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: NiteMare
Date: May 11, 2014, 8:28 pm
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i fitted 11" drums and backplates from an old rear salisbury
axle to the front axle of my 88", the only thing is the slaves
then didn't mount at 12 o'clock as the backplate mount holes are
drilled in a different position (remember that 11" sls shoes are
handed so put the backplates on the correct side of the vehicle,
i may not have ??? )
to be honest i only changed them from 10" because i bought them
cheap and wondered if they'd make much difference
the real bonus in my opinion is the less frequent need to adjust
them and easier to minimise pedal travel due to being able to
adjust each shoe for minimal clearance
i also fitted a dual line servo assisted pedal box at the same
time
i really don't think my stopping distances were reduced as the
10" brakes worked just fine (i could get the rear axle
hovering), just the effort required was lessened
the downside in my opinion is after wading, i personally think
the 11" sls brakes take a greater time to both dry out and when
they "pull" they "pull" harder to one side or the other whilst
drying
#Post#: 88144--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: jessejazza
Date: May 12, 2014, 12:54 pm
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--- Quote from: NoelC link ---
>
> ^^^ I'd agree with that. When the Girling Powerstop remote
servo gave up on the 2a 109 I did away with it, I now have
extremely keen brakes thanks to them being bled using the Rog176
G-clamp method and adjusted correctly...
--- End Quote ---
Have you got a photo of this Rog 176? I heard of it before but
not seen what they're like. If you still have the bleed nipples
on the bottom one can reverse bleed... which is what I believe
LR intended.
#Post#: 88147--------------------------------------------------
Re: dual circuit brakes
DIR By: jessejazza
Date: May 12, 2014, 1:06 pm
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--- Quote from: NiteMare link ---
>
> ...the downside in my opinion is after wading, i personally
think the 11" sls brakes take a greater time to both dry out and
when they "pull" they "pull" harder to one side or the other
whilst drying
--- End Quote ---
Have you got the snail cam or the cone adjuster type? Going
through the parts manual I was surprised to see that they
changed to cone adjustment with the S2 from snail cam, and then
changed to snail cam again for the S2a and S3. I'd have thought
there was more contact of the shoe and drum surfaces with cone
adjustment. If not; why was the hydraulic handbrake left with
cone adjustment?
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