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#Post#: 56109--------------------------------------------------
Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: April 2, 2013, 6:59 pm
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Well I've been a bit busy recently, I get home from work at a
reasonable 5.10 pm most days and after the little one goes to
bed around 8 ish I've been popping out and "doing a bit" as I
really want to get the old beast on the road asap. I will post
in members motors eventually, but on average I've been getting
in around 12.30/1.00 am so not really been in the mood! Kind of
knocks your stuffing out laying under Land Rovers in the snow
and ice till the early hours.
Anyway, I've got to a point with the brakes and have been trying
to bleed them up with zero success. I have the dreaded CB type
master cylinder and it refuses to play ball. First it was seized
and was stuck in the barrel, took it off and sorted that.
Refitted it and still it won't bleed. The piston is returning, I
know that. If I push the pedal down, then put my finger over the
outlet and draw the pedal back, them remove my finger I can hear
it return so I know its not seized. If I put my finger over the
outlet and press the pedal down then move my finger I get the
rush of pressure so I know it'll push fluid out, the issue seems
to be getting any fluid from the bean can into the master
cylinder at all - it just will not draw it into the barrel.
I've done lots of internet searching and discovered that it has
to be horizontal, so I've tried the jacking up of the front end,
doesn't make any difference. I removed the cylinder again and
filled it on the bench, plugged both inlet and outlet holes and
refitted. Still won't bloody work, so I am at a loss. I am near
the point of buying a new pattern part (can't afford anything
better quality) which is a shame as what's giving me all this
grief is an original (sold by Dunsfold for £566 + vat) part and
it would be nice to keep it if I can.
Anyone got anything else I can try before I gamble any (scarce)
money on inferior Chinese garbage? I've contemplated changing to
the CV type but don't really want to change the pipes as I've
not seen them for sale anywhere
#Post#: 56115--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: AntC
Date: April 3, 2013, 2:43 am
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I would advise investing in a Gunsons Easibleed kit although I
must admit I've never used one on a Land Rover, but as I am
replacing just about everything on my S1 braking system at the
moment, I am about to. I think they are around £18.
It uses pressure from an inflated tyre to push fluid throughout
the system, making single handed bleeding so easy. I guess
you're on your own at midnight in the snow :smile1
#Post#: 56144--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: April 5, 2013, 3:28 pm
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We're back! :giddy:
I've been lent an expensive looking compressor driven gadget
complete with automatic resevoir filling gizmo to try, so will
update soon. Still think the mc is fubared but we'll see!
#Post#: 56260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: NoelC
Date: April 6, 2013, 1:22 pm
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Not wishing to piss on your bonfire but those vacuum bleeders
don't seem to work on series motors, at least they won't for me.
I bought one a while back and had no success with it. It is
sounding like your master cylinder is fucked however before
condemning it I'd bleed with an eezibleed. I've just changed all
of the wheel cylinders and brake shoes on the ambulance...
[IMG]
HTML http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y372/leyland510/97ER69/AmbulanceBrakes1600x900_zpsda2525b7.jpg[/img]
...and had no dramas using the g-clamping method and eezibleed.
The CB master cylinders are trickier than a CV but once bled
work fine. The beauty of the eezibleed is it effectively bleeds
the system without the master cylinder having to pump, sometimes
that can encourage a stubborn one to work. Failing that, I
wouldn't bin it. There are companies that will re-sleeve them
for around £75 - I'm sure Kev or Parksy posted summat recently
about this.
#Post#: 56267--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: April 6, 2013, 2:45 pm
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Well, just spent several hours trying to get the sodding thing
to bleed. First, I too the mc off again and filled it up at the
bench. I plugged the inlet and outlet (properly this time) and
refitted it. I moved the Land Rover to the level bit of our
drive and connected the gizmo whatsit...and...still nothing.
:smiley-furious: I've given up, I reckon it's very fucked. I
think I will have to convert to the CV type - can anyone inform
me of the correct pipes/fittings I will need?
NoelC - £75 is about £75 too much. I don't currently have two
brass farthings to rub together.
#Post#: 57310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: andrewhurstca
Date: April 14, 2013, 4:06 pm
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I have been on the very same frustrating journey. Still not
fully sorted out but I have learned a few things that might help
you:
1) Vacuum bleeding will only get you so far because it sucks
some air in past the nipple threads, pressurizing the MC works
better.
2) Bench priming the MC will only get you so far.
3) I only got substantial improvement when I parked on a 30
degree slope and bled the nippers there.
4) The anchors on the backplates seem to work loose over time.
Often these are welded back in place to secure them but if they
are not in exactly the right spot, the shoes won't center right
in the drums. After having replaced everything else (cylinders,
shoes, drums), I eventually bought new backplates (ouch$$) and
it helped. Unfortunately it wasn't the magic bullet I was hoping
for, but at least the shoes wear evenly now and some of the
spongyness is gone. I had replaced the drums because at first it
was hard to get the drums on over the uncentered shoes, then
when I had them "skimmed" at a machine shop the ID was too big
leading to a poor fit with the shoes.
5) It's a fine line between pads being over and under adjusted.
a little over is better because they will bed in.
6) It's a fine line between the MC shaft being adjusted too
short and too long. Too long and you can lock up the brakes
because the MC can't relieve itself, too short and there's not
much travel left for the brakes!
7) Worn pedal bushings will eat into the available stroke at the
M/C. (I'm going to replace mine - part number 272714).
8) I bought a set of "Speed Bleeder" nipples which have
excellent reviews. Each one has a small check valve so that
bleeding is a foolproof one man job. The threads even have a
special self sealing compound on that is good for several bleeds
and can be replaced if you buy a small bottle. I haven't got
round to putting them in yet but I am hopeful.
HTML http://www.speedbleeder.com/size.htm
Size SB3824L.
My Landy is a '62 SWB that I took on as someone else's abandoned
"project" 3 years ago. It has been quite a journey!
Andrew
#Post#: 57374--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: clunk
Date: April 15, 2013, 3:02 am
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I had auto bleed valves fitted to my first 109 in the 70s.
Used to be advertised 'As fitted to London Taxi-Cabs'
Magic, just undo the valve, pump the pedal half a dozen times,
close the valve refill the reservoir and so on.
Used to get them from Halfrauds. For some reason they
stopped making them. They didn't have the self sealing band
.... so perhaps technology has caught up.
Demon Tweeks sell them now
HTML http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/brake-bleeders/goodridge-speed-bleeder<br
/>
#Post#: 57490--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: quattrofoto
Date: April 15, 2013, 5:11 pm
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If only I was getting that far.
The mc isn't drawing any fluid at all from the reservoir. The
rest of the system is still bone dry. I've checked for blockages
and the feed pipe is fine, I got mad with it the other night and
lifted the front end way up with my engine hoist, still no good.
I've tried the shaft at different lengths/adjustments and
nothing helps so, despite seeming to work properly on the bench
it is in fact probably fucked completely.
I've given up for now and am concentrating on other things, when
I have some cash I'll buy a new mc and go from there. Thanks
everyone for your input and help.
Ste
#Post#: 57498--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: NiteMare
Date: April 15, 2013, 5:53 pm
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i had a similar problem when i fitted a new seal kit in my CB
m/c (lwb one) and it drove me nuts for half a day, i stripped
it back down, checked everything and refitted it still with a
problem getting fluid to move
in the end i gently blew air in it from the pressure end (brake
pipe end) to ensure the piston components were all retracting
(don't do this on the vehicle if you don't want fluid over
everything)
it cured my problem, took a fair few pumps to get it pushing any
quantity of fluid but worked for me
also make sure the pedal returns freely as the pivot can and
does slowly sieze at the top of it's return travel which can
also help create this problem (spring strong enough to pull it
back ?? )
#Post#: 57527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Guess what - Brake bleeding woes..
DIR By: bubble
Date: April 16, 2013, 8:19 am
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Does sound like your master cylinder is a bit trick. I had a
right game bleeding the brakes on the 109 but eventually this
worked for me.
MY PERSONAL BLEEDING METHOD: (Including twin leading shoe set
up) Lock ALL the brake adjusters on so none of the wheels are
able to turn. If you can’t lock them all on or they just keep
turning round, then you must replace them or rectify the
problem. You will not be able to get a good pedal or be able to
stop in a straight line with out of adjustment brakes! Get an
assistant to pump up the brake pedal and hold it down for 5
seconds. Whilst the pedal is still being held down release the
wheel cylinder bleed nipple (with suitable clear tube/pipe
attached) and leave open for 3 seconds. Tighten up and pump the
pedal till hard and again hold for 5 seconds. Release whilst
under pressure the nipple for 3 seconds and again tighten up.
Repeat until no bubbles are visible. Don’t forget to top up the
master cylinder! Work round the wheels in this order, OSF, NSF,
OSR, NSR. That’s working from the closest wheel cylinder to the
master cylinder out to the furthest. A little tip is to use a
torch to illuminate the clear pipe. This makes spotting bubbles
easier. Whilst the assistant holds the pedal down, check the
whole system for any fluid weep and flexible hoses for swelling
or distortion. Replace any hoses and rectify any leaks. Finally,
back off the adjusters 2 ‘clicks’ each.
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