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#Post#: 52950--------------------------------------------------
An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: onfire
Date: February 27, 2013, 3:43 pm
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My Dad once told me: opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has
one but it is rude to get them out in public! I hope I dont
invite too much abuse by asking for yours ... opinion that is,
not arsehole!
I work for a college in South Wales, running the BTEC Public
Services courses with students from 16 to, well, 33 has been our
oldest! The courses run over one or two years per level of the
qualification and include classroom activities (such as
Teamwork, Leadership, Discipline, Citizenship etc) and outdoor
activities as well as avariety of trips and visits to the
Uniformed Services that the students (apparently) aspire to
join.
I had the idea of putting together a club / team of students to
rebuild and compete a Series Land Rover last year and got the
Green Light from the college to do it ... but, at that time I
didnt have a vehicle ... now, after my crash, as long as the
Insurance company let me buy Lola back, I have the vehicle and
the students willing to do it.
I am about to join the Wye and Welsh Land Rover Club myself but
want to ask them to consider allowing this college 'team' to
join as a group, competing in the appropriate categories. I
wonder, what are you thoughts on the idea and what might I need
to consider before 'selling' the idea to the local Club? My
initial concern is to do with Parental Supervision but we will
be under college insurance and I am in loco parentis on college
activities already (with parents signing full consent forms).
Thanks, Tim
The Proposal – Coleg Gwent Student Land Rover (Off Road &
Mechanics) ‘Team’
Aims:
Develop students basic mechanical ability
Develop students driving competence, discipline and skill
Develop and enhance experience, skills and opportunities for
students CV records
Method: Invite applications from Ebbw Vale campus students
before selecting a Team of 12 – 15 students per academic year
Join local Land Rover and Off Road Clubs as a
college student team
Rebuild a Series Land Rover to a basic level (to
meet Club / MSA regulations)
Compete in the lower level challenges and trials
open to members over the age of 14 years (on private land)
The idea of joining a club as a cooperative team is probably a
new one and one that is not likely to be popular, however, we
hope that it will be possible in order to introduce ‘new blood’
into the local clubs as well as competitive motorsport in
general. The support of Gwent Police in particular may be of
help with our membership applications as we hope that the focus
on legal off-roading will help tackle the illegal off-road
trials biking that many of the campus students (and their peers)
are involved in.
It is proposed that we join the South Wales Land Rover Club or
the Wye and Welsh Land Rover Club or the Glamorgan Off Road Club
in order to play a full part within the competition side of the
Club. The student Team will become involved in the voluntary
role of setting out the challenge courses (under Club Officer
control, and on private land), providing the mechanical support
for the Team vehicle and will have the opportunity to drive the
vehicle through a variety of competitions and challenges – this
will have to be negotiated with each Club but we hope that a
concession can be made to enable perhaps 3 or 4 of our student
Team to drive the vehicle on each challenge day.
#Post#: 52953--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: genem
Date: February 27, 2013, 3:59 pm
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Great idea, seen it work well in a couple of schools, where the
techy bloke had enough space to store the vehicle.
My understanding is that 14 yos + can compete in Tyro level
competitions if they have a qualified driver sitting in with
them. I think you need to be a properly car-licensed driver to
complete above that ? - That's the rules as applied in SLROC.
Good luck !
#Post#: 52961--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: guest13
Date: February 27, 2013, 4:38 pm
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I don't think the clubs will have an issue ... I think most will
embrace the idea...
So long as you have yourself and your college well covered
legally ... I know bringing this up might not be popular, but
its a reality of the world in which we now live
#Post#: 52968--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: 67swb
Date: February 27, 2013, 5:26 pm
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push the team building aspect also developing communication
skills :thumbs:
#Post#: 53013--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: Landyphil
Date: February 28, 2013, 12:20 pm
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Right I apologise now if this comes across pious, conceited or
anything else for that matter as it's not my intention.
I think the idea is an excellent one.
Taking young'uns into the cruciable of motorsport even if it's
at a lower level is an excellent idea.
BUT if I may help steer you a touch there are some things I'd
advise.
If you're planning to limit yourself to Tyro Trials (which would
fit the bill fine) then yes maybe Lola would be suitable. But
make absolutely no mistake about it anything above that and an
88" series 3 will be a constant source of either modifications
and /or frustration.
As we are all aware trialing leafers (especially something other
than 80's) is not common and trials are very much coiler
orientated.
And this is the awkward bit. Even if your aiming for a bit of
fun and team building trials is fine as long as you actually get
some "section" time. If you don't and get stuck early on
frequently very VERY quickly it becomes an extremely dull sport
to partake in. I'm always done motorsport for the fun but when
it came to trials as wasn't interested in winning but I did want
to get value for money.
An 88" series 3 in standardish form on the whole is a far from
ideal machine and is to be honest far from an ideal motor
available for ALRC trials. I know this may create a cry from
some going "well I've done OK in the past" but certainly up here
the last 5-7 years things have changed vastly and while it has
very little to do with leaves it's the rest of the motor that's
too wide, too long and has a terrible turning circle. Some of
these shortfalls can be removed but it's how much you want to
mess about with it. Which you can't do at Tyro's anyway.
At tyro's this might not be such a bad thing and certainly if I
set out a trial section and found that someone taking a sensible
line could not make a turn during the section due to their
steering lock not being good enough I would adjust the section
apologise to all and run the sodding thing again! Trialing
should not be about how much lock you can apply. Ever.
But it would seem I'm in the minority on this principle but I
know the North Wales Club certainly are a good bunch who run
proper trials.
As I say it's a great idea but go in with your eyes open and
don't please ever think "I or indeed this person that's giving
me advice about the motor should be heeded because we know about
"off roading"". Some of the worst competitors I've seen are
ones that have been BORDA trained or similar. Learning to drive
offroad by the professionals is about as relevant to trials as
handgliding.
Harsh words but you have to trust me only listen to the
competitors that have done it before and made it work. As I say
this isn't about making a winning team but it will make the
whole job a lot lot easier and also a lot lot cheaper!
Have you done much trialing yourself?
While at lower levels like tyro's it can be wonderfully cheap
but before you aim for this ask the awkward question: Trials is
on the whole a slow moving, mostly watching, possible
frustrating for a yoof sport to compete in. What makes a good
motor and a good driver tend to be the things that aren't
exciting or obvious which (and I admit I'm generalising here
terribly) doesn't seem to be what young starters are into. Will
they keep interested?
Certainly up here retention of newcomers can be a problem and
when asked it usually comes down to the fact they've thrown a
shit load of work and or money at their motor but still get
absolutely trounced by some old looking heap that in fact is far
from it. So a cold war ensue's until the money and damage
becomes a bit too serious. I know I fell into that trap with my
88" and spent waay too much time battling on with it when I
should have started again and built what I have a sneaking
suspicion Dengieboy of this shire is building..... 8)
Eitherway Trials and Comp Safari's all usually allow vehicle to
be "Double Driven" but passengers cannot normally be swapped
without an exemption in the Supplementary Regulations and
approved by the MSA. (I've done it on events I've run and it's
not a problem to write it in but few clubs do).
So if you have another experienced trialers to sit in you can
run two drivers per event using the same land rover. I say
experienced trialers because certainly the clubs I know of will
allow under 17's or those without a drivers licence to enter a
Tyro as a driver BUT the passenger can't just be someone with a
drivers licence but someone who's competed previously. Makes
sense really.
#Post#: 53021--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: onfire
Date: February 28, 2013, 1:08 pm
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That is very useful indeed LandyPhil, thank you. You make a
number of points that I hadn't thought of to be honest.
1. I assumed that I could simply patch Lola up, ensure the
chassis is straight, replace damaged panels, remove roof and add
a roll bar / cage, harnesses etc (to keep the college happy) ...
and assumed we could enter her without tax / MOT into Tyro
events. I was aware that each student would have to be
accompanied by a person with full driving licence but, while
there are three of us Land Rover owners and considerate 'off
roaders' to staff the Team, I certainly dont have any trials
experience and I do not believe the other 2 do either.
My understanding about Tyro's came from here:
Tyro Trials
Tyro events provide an excellent starting point if you would
like to try your Land Rover out off-road. These events are aimed
at young drivers or novice drivers in newer vehicles, where
gentle sections are taxing enough to get to grips with the car
without inflicting damage (reckless driving aside).
One of the biggest bonuses of this type of event is that juniors
can compete from the age of 13 (under our supplementary
regulations) provided they are passengered by fully licensed
driver with some off road experience.
The event comprises of a set of 8 sections. Each section has 12
pairs of markers or gates. Competitors attempt to drive between
the gates without stopping or hitting a gate. Each pair of gates
decreases in value from 12 to 1. The object is to get as far
round the section as possible, ultimately receiving ‘0’ for an
error free drive. Prizes are normally given out in Ladies, Men’s
and Junior classes.
The sections are set out across open ground with the intention
of testing driver and vehicle without the risk of damage.
Varying terrain is used to test the drivers ability. This type
of event gives a good introduction to the trials system of gates
and scoring that is employed in both RTV & CCV events.
If you are interested in trying out your vehicle, be it a trusty
off roader or Sunday best, come along and see for yourself.
Check the calendar page for the next Tyro date.
BUT ... it seems from what you said LandyPhil and the wonderweb
that:
If it's a "real" Tyro, run under an MSA Tyro permit the vehicles
have to be meet the MSA regs to take part under the regulations.
The vehicles have to be taxed and tested (where appropriate),
have the original number of seats fitted as when it was
manufactured. The rear seats must be original but you can change
the front seats assuming you keep the same number.
2. I understood that there were a number of gates in each trial
but wasnt clear whether it was just that one 'route' that was
undertaken in the day ... and perhaps niaively (sp?) thought
that we could swap students around or run it twice ... I guess
that depends on how many people enter on a day, as well as on
the attitude of the club (and whether they would allow us to run
but not compete / gain points)
I have my application form for the Wye and Welsh LR Club in the
post and hope to meet them and get trialing using my Dads Series
and my wifes modern LR and hopefully I will gain a clearer
picture of who the trials work.
Ignorant as I might be, I had the idea of the students
rebuilding a vehicle and getting hands-on / taking ownership
over the project (including the mechanics, maintenance,
fundraising etc) whilst also introducing them to controlled
driving / competition / offroading and only want the best of
opportunities and experiences for them - the students themselves
are dead keen for the idea, but there is a chance that they dont
quite understand the reality! I hoped that linking to a club
would give the project a little more validity than just taking
the vehicle to a pay and play site (which might just contain the
sort of drivers I dont want my students to emulate lol)
Thank you for taking time to explain things - it is just the
kind of advice I need in order to make the most educated move
#Post#: 53024--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: Landyphil
Date: February 28, 2013, 1:59 pm
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You're on the right track there. :smilewide:
Joining a trialing club and marshalling and competing will teach
you more about trialing in 3 Sundays than a lifetime of so
called tuition.
With Tyro's being meant to be a starter event for people it's
expected that they will be using standard road going motors
rather than trials specials which makes a lot of sense. So to
keep the Caravan Utilising Nomadic Traveller who may frequent
the odd Pay and be Gay site the vehicle has to be on the road
and the ALRC rulebook which, while far from perfect purposely
seems to discourage the sort of chav mods you see in favour of
proper engineering.
But that rulebook does have it's nuances. They'll be no
"removing roof and adding a roll bar and cage" unless you want
to go straight into the CCV level of trials"
But fitting a cage either inside or outside the roof (or both
etc) makes no shite no difference. Altering the Silhoette by
removing the roof however....
Read and digest: There's some howlers but there's also some
pearlers when it comes to scope:
HTML http://www.alrc.co.uk/new%20regulations/index.htm
HTML http://www.alrc.co.uk/new%20regulations/index.htm
And you get to watch britains best this year as the Nationals
will be held by Wye and Welsh. Once you've seen someone like
Dave Hughes, Alex Skidmore or Neil Mellish to name but a few
you'll see what trialing can be like at it's best.
Also have a watch of the Comp. The nationals due it's ALRC rules
brings out those leafer based racers that aren't run elsewhere.
#Post#: 53076--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: Dengieboy
Date: March 1, 2013, 7:46 am
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Did I hear someone say "nationals" and "leafers"? Im going to
the nationals in May in either class 2 leafer or class 7 leafer
:-)
As Phil suggests Tim, speak to your local ALRC club and go along
and watch some trials. Good luck.
#Post#: 53080--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: daveedwins
Date: March 1, 2013, 9:22 am
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See you at the national then!! Class 9 though,
#Post#: 53084--------------------------------------------------
Re: An idea for your opinion ... a college off-road team / club
DIR By: Dengieboy
Date: March 1, 2013, 12:02 pm
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Come and say hello then daveedwins, you'll find me with the
Essex Boyz
--- Quote from: Landyphil link ---
>
> I know I fell into that trap with my 88" and spent waay too
much time battling on with it when I should have started again
and built what I have a sneaking suspicion Dengieboy of this
shire is building..... 8)
>
--- End Quote ---
Good guess Phil, 80" Series 1 V8 auto in class 9 next year.
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