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#Post#: 49924--------------------------------------------------
How to time a Series diesel
By: Snailer Date: January 27, 2013, 9:06 am
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I hope someone can help on this one since I am at a loss as to
what to do next.
I have taken out a three bearing diesel engine and replaced it
with a five bearing engine. In the change I have bought from
someone else a flywheel and housing because they are different
to a three bearing. The difference I now know is that whereas
the old flywheel had a TDC and 13 degrees BTDC stamped on it the
new one does not. It just has a slot for timing up a 90 or
whatever it came off given it was in the changeover when both
series and 90 were made.
This means I cannot find the 13 degrees on the flywheel to set
up the diesel distribution pump. Also the old flywheel housing
has a pointer to line up when you know the location of 13
degrees, the new one has no marker.
Assuming that the new engine was set up right I have put on the
pump and tightened it up. It is advanced as far as it will go
and I have had it running, there was lots of white smoke so I
presume unburnt fuel.
Any suggestions as to how to know where to start? I have the
timing tool for the engine but need to know where 13 degrees is.
Do I need the DTI tool instead?
I was thinking, what about counting the teeth on the flywheel
and working out where 13 degrees is? Easier said than done, does
anyone know how many teeth there are on a 90 flywheel?
Happy to talk on the telephone. Please respond or send me a PM
and I will call you back.
Thanks
Stuart
#Post#: 49933--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: AlexB Date: January 27, 2013, 9:41 am
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SOrry for some general points which may or may not assist.
If you have it advanced as much as it will go, the common cause
for this is that the timing gear is knackered. Bodges include
filing the holes bigger on the pump or twisting the scew gear.
One way to give an indication of wear is to turn the engine by
hand and see how much it will turn before anything happens to
the scew gear. It should be pretty instant, if not, you have
lots of wear.
The only proper way to time diesels is with a DTI, a green bible
and someone who knows what they are doing but that person really
needs the position of the fly wheel as well (I think)
My taxi engine from hell has marks on the crank pulley, but only
visible after an emery paper clean and a torch. Have you looked
what there is there?
#Post#: 49935--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: Snailer Date: January 27, 2013, 9:44 am
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Hi Alex
As for your first points, I would have to take the pump and
check it. As for the pulley, I have looked and could not see
anything. I will look again and do some cleaning to see what it
reveals.
#Post#: 49965--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: divie Date: January 27, 2013, 2:20 pm
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Only ever timed mine once when I changed the timing chain. You
need a dti fastened to number 1 exhaust and set pump pointer to
the mark when exhaust valve is fully open using your timing
tool. I am at a loss on how to set without marks on flywheel but
if it is out when fully open it may be 180 degrees out and would
not run at all. White smoke can be a sign of head gasket
failure.
#Post#: 49970--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: Albert Ross Date: January 27, 2013, 2:34 pm
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I spoke on the phone earlier, and have suggested searching for
EP and checking valve lift. Also the skew gear positioning is
suspect (Obviously these two go hand in had, and if the cam
timing is suspect, then the skew gear will never be right) He's
going to have a go at checking for marks on his original
flywheel and looking at the markings on the new one. I have my
suspicions that the engine (having been apart at some point) has
been retimed incorrectly in one of these two areas. Until that
has beend done, there won't be a conclusion. I don't suspect the
head gasket, as even"ish" compression is present, and it is
having trouble starting, suggesting a single fault affecting all
cylinders (therefore fuel or preheat).
#Post#: 50031--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: Snailer Date: January 28, 2013, 8:55 am
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My next effort is to check the valve timing as Albert says.
Also the skew gear does point to 4 o'clock as all the manuals
says so without precise checking it is there or thereabouts.
There are some threads on opening the pump inspection hole and
setting it up from there. Should this be something to try once
I have got it set at 13 degrees by measuring off the front
pulley?
#Post#: 50060--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: Albert Ross Date: January 28, 2013, 1:34 pm
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The pump is the last thing in line to time up. Unless the
camshaft timing is correct, the skew gear will never be correct,
therefore the pump timing will never be correct.
#Post#: 50070--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: NUGGETT Date: January 28, 2013, 2:17 pm
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I just checked the workshop manual for '84 - '90 Defenders
covering 2.25 D + P engines (as well the 2.5's).
It should have an EP Mark on the flywheel ............. Page 20
/ Section12.
It should also have the 14, 13, 15 degrees BTDC marks too.
If its the flywheel off a 2.5 then it should at least have the
EP mark on it.
( its downloadable off the South Carolina Land Rover Owners
Club) ;D
They can be sods to see, especially with even the smallest
amount of dirt on them and aslo when the engines in.
I found the skew gear on mine was 180degress out, ( about 10
o'clock), still started ok though and ran ok, just lacked a bit.
.............
I took it out to set up the whole shooting match properly. (the
engine)
#Post#: 50160--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: Snailer Date: January 29, 2013, 9:46 am
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[quote author=Albert Ross link=topic=4525.msg50060#msg50060
date=1359401694]
The pump is the last thing in line to time up. Unless the
camshaft timing is correct, the skew gear will never be correct,
therefore the pump timing will never be correct.
[/quote]
That is the thing AR, the pump is pretty close and my skills are
not that great so if I did my best to test the 13 degrees before
using a DTI and marking the pulley could I try the pump
adjustment after using the timing tool to set it up.
What I am thinking is if this works then I am sorted, if not
have I messed up the pump to the point of it being a issue for
me in the future?
#Post#: 50166--------------------------------------------------
Re: How to time a Series diesel
By: AlexB Date: January 29, 2013, 10:58 am
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generally speaking, unless someone has been fucking about with
it, the pump should be ok. Think of it like a distributer on a
nasty petrol engine. You get the valves and cam shaft right - so
the pump spurts fuel in at the right time in the suck squeeze
bang blow (four stroke) cycle and it should be ok. Messing with
the pump is dangerous - thats why they wire the screws up so
folk are discouraged from fucking about with it.
The main causes for diesels to smoke is because of worn timing
gear - needing them to be advanced further than normal
adjustment will allow.
out of interest, how much movement have you got on the engine
before the scew gear moves?
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