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#Post#: 47804--------------------------------------------------
Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: paulthepom
Date: January 9, 2013, 8:02 pm
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Hi!, I am new to the forum and looking for some expert help!
I live in the wonderful country of New Zealand and have an old
1958 series 2 a as a bit of a beach vehicle.
Recently the metal brake line started leaking and I had to
replace a couple of sections of it. I also had to replace 3 of
the cyliders on each wheel as the bleeder nipples threaded when
I attempted to open them. ( I am not sure if these were the
originals or not! LOL)
I have since put everything back together and bled the system.
With pressure and normal resistance apparently returned!
However.......I find now that when driving I have to pump the
brake pedal a couple of times before the brakes engage!!!
(quite scary!)
So I am wondering what I need to do to get things back to
starting point and all running properly.
I have looked on the net and two things I think may have a
bearing on it are:
I didn't bleed the master cylinder (not sure how to or if I was
supposed to).
and I didn't adjust/reset the drums before I bled the system.
However I am by no means sure of matters!
I'd appreciate all the advice I can get as I love my old Landy
and would dearly like to get him on the road/beach again!
Cheers
Paul
#Post#: 47809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: seriesewan
Date: January 10, 2013, 2:32 am
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Hi there,
Is the pedal spongy or when you get it "pumped up" is it hard?
if its spongy then its air in the system compressing, re blead
it all starting wth the cyliner furthest form the master
cylinder first
if you get a good hard pedal then you will need to adjust the
shoes, look around the back of the drum & you will find some
adjusting nuts, these twiddle a snail cam to get the shoes in
the correct position. turn the adjusters untill the brake starts
to drag a bit then back it off a notch or 2
HTH
#Post#: 47811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: Drew
Date: January 10, 2013, 2:39 am
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If it was a case of you not re-setting the shoes/drums, it
wouldn't normally manifest itself in the amount of pumping you
describe. So, if you're having to pump like that, you've got air
in the system, and you will need to re-bleed and re-bleed, in
the correct order, until you're pressing your right foot on a
piece of rock.
Assuming you're on a single line brake system (one copper pipe
exiting the master cylinder) and you're on a RHD vehicle (being
in New Zealand), the correct order is 'Rear-left Rear-right
Front-left Front right', basically working in a zig-zag from the
wheel furthest away from the master-cyl, up to it. If you're on
a LHD motor, the order is simply a mirror-immage reversal.
Getting a helper on the pedal is the only way, unless you have
'eazi-bleeding' equipment. And, with the bleed nipple open, it's
three rapid pushes of the pedal, followed by a fourth with the
pedal kept to the floor, whilst you tighten the nipple. Repeat
until there are no air bubbles coming through the wheel-cylinder
and then move on to the next wheel.
Keep the fluid reservoir topped-up, which means a lot of getting
up off your back and checking. And NEVER re-fill with aerated
fluid which has just been pumped from the system...it defeats
the whole purpose of the exercise.
I'd also check your fluid level and all points of connection, as
you may be leaking some juice. However, this would eventually
lead, to you pumping all you wanted...you just wouldn't stop
until a third-party object did the service for you.
#Post#: 47815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: ProDave
Date: January 10, 2013, 3:41 am
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The only thing I would say is my "bleeding technique" is
slightly different.
for me it's:
Open bleed nipple
Pedal down and hold
Close bleed nipple
Pedal up
repeat until no bubbles have come out for several presses and
the brakes pedal feels solid.
the "pump 3 times" suggested above only seems to push and suck
the same air bubbles back and forwards several times.
#Post#: 47837--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: paulthepom
Date: January 10, 2013, 12:01 pm
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Wow! Thanks for the in put!!
I'll start by answering the questions asked first;
Yes, I would say spongy is the description of the pedal so that
sort of indicates air in the system.
Yes, RHD single copper line for the brake line.
It sounds to me from all this that there is still Air in the
system. I didn't realise that 'recycling' the fluid back in
after bleeding was a no no and that prossibly has a lot to do
with it! Live and learn!
I think it wouldn't hurt to adjust those shoes too, just to
iliminate that area, thanks for the instruction there.
I think I'll have to bleed agian in the process described after
that.
I read somewhere about bleeding the master cylinder first? I am
not even sure there is a bleeder valve on it! Is that important
or am I incorrect there?
Cheers from Kiwi Land! SH><.
#Post#: 47845--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: ProDave
Date: January 10, 2013, 1:27 pm
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I've never heard of bleeding the master cylinder.
As you bleed "the system" the master cylinder is flushed through
and should be well purged of air.
DO keep an eye on the reservoir level and keep topping it up
with fresh brake fluid. Let that run dry and it will suck air in
and you have to start all over again.
It might be worth before you do all that to put a new set of
seals in the master cylinder, to save you having to do it later.
#Post#: 47855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: BEY C
Date: January 10, 2013, 1:57 pm
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I have heard of bleeding a MC, but not necessarily on a Series
LR? The CB type master cylinder does have a habit of trapping
air, as such I always bleed with the front end in the air
(either stands, ramps or a slope). I tend to bleed the same way
as ProDave if using two people, I find the other technique tends
to split any air into tiny bubbles. Personally I tend to use a
one man brake bleeder (the one with the one way valve), a few
quid from shops in the UK, Eazibleed puts to much pressure on
the system in my opinion, I had nothing but problems with seals
when I used to use one (I have just purchased a vacuum one
however, to suck the fluid out from the brake cylinders).
Check the one cylinder you didn't replace to make sure the seals
are still holding, replacing brake parts tends to push the
problem down the line and seals are only good for a few years.
next check fluid level to make sure it isn't going down, if it
is you have a leak somewhere (not always obvious). If you pump
once or twice and the pedal goes hard, it is probably adjustment
(but bleed out anyway if you have been re-using fluid and make
sure it is all new). If it is spongey, it is probably air as
others have said, bleed in sequence as Drew. If it still
doesn't work, then problem may be air trapped in MC, but this
doesn't usually stay a problem if bled properly? There are
other methods of bleeding for particularly tricky brakes, but
these usually apply to 109" brakes which can be a sod!
Post a picture of your master cylinder, interested to see what
type it is (big nut on end or small).
#Post#: 47880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: paulthepom
Date: January 10, 2013, 8:54 pm
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I'll get a photo of the cylinder when I go over to re bleed and
adjust next weekend.
Hopefully once I do it again(properly this time) making sure not
to recycle the used fluid that came through the system I'll have
a better idea.
My other problem is that the beach area its at is 2 hours away
from where I live and 45 minutes from any shops or garage! So
its pretty much 'survival mechanics with a little bit of
macgiver thrown in !
This gives an idea of where he's living!
HTML http://kiwinomad06.blogspot.co.nz/2010_10_01_archive.html
Cheers for all the great help, it makes a lot of sense.
Paul
#Post#: 47892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: Jackual
Date: January 11, 2013, 3:52 am
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Alright Paul, Good to see another Ex-pat!. I see you've got
pictures on that there link of yours from Central Hawkes Bay
:thumbs:, Do you happen to live in the bay?.
Im in Bridge Pa, About 10km South of Hastings.
#Post#: 47970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help! With my Brakes!
DIR By: feelinperky
Date: January 12, 2013, 7:39 am
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I have just had similar problems but having rebuilt brakes about
a million times its fairly straight forward. I found a loose
adjuster so it span as i drove! that tightened in fitted new
front shoes since my others were worn out. Then i adjusted all
the shoes up. Gone from 3 pump brakes to none!
Bleeding i find simple. I just use an easibleed thing, just a
rubber pipe with some fluid in bottle so it cant return. I start
from the furthest brake to the nearest, 3 slow pumps then test,
it not do all again. I dont bother doing anything else like
jamming shoes on with the adjusters on jamming wood under the
pedal overnight and i have not had any problems. Pedal is rock
hard with no pumping. :thumbs:
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