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#Post#: 40060--------------------------------------------------
Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One Ton
, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 4:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Fuckwit's Cool fizzin' Rivet countin', Monumentally Bell-ended,
Anorakin' Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward
Control, One Ton, 130, Rims & Wheels
As promised:
Often confused with 130 and one tonne rims, I am going to put
the record straight on buying the now almost mythical one ton &
forward control rims. An old Landrover myth says they are all
the same, and I'm going to debunk most of the useless bullshit
you find when you search the web on ths subject. This posting's
scope will not go beyond deep-dish leafer rims, because frankly
that would be beyond the scope of the author. I would hope
otehrs will widen its scope with stuff on the other rims.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Fitted%20Leaferwith569203/Fitted56920311.jpg[/img]
Portugese 109 wearing 569203 Rims.
Why do I write this? You see, like many others, I got myself
duped, I went to buy my rims and assumed you could use part
numbers.
This guide comes about because there is a lot of
well-intentioned, but wanked out, confusing and contradictory,
misinformation which flits from forum to forum. It tends to take
the form of useless part number and offset lists and
cross-setion diagrams. These list the Inset, outset, offset, and
finish up only giving 'upset', because they aid the unwary in
buying so-so rims. Mostly listed on the 'bay as "Deep dish FC
One ton rims"... Yeh, right.... my arse.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ComparisonPix/RumseyDiana05-1.jpg[/img]
This diag from an Aussie site is extemely good, and probaly the
best of them. All credit to Diana I think. It is extremely
difficult to collate this inforamtion, most only get to see one
set of rims, which I suspect is why there is so much
confusion.I've tweaked it at he bottom with the 'A' & 'B stuff.
But you'll need more than this as a starter, and then more if
you want to identify rims, when you see them on Ebay for
example.
OK, if you want to see what I mean, Google this, exactly as you
see it in itlaics
Land rover deep rims 569204 OR 543384 OR 569203 OR ANR1534
or
HTML http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Land+rover+deep+rims+569204+OR+543384+OR+569203+OR+ANR1534&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
HTML http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Land+rover+deep+rims+569204+OR+543384+OR+569203+OR+ANR1534&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
You'll find heaps on these rims, yet you'll be left more
confused than when you started.
#Post#: 40062--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 4:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Let me be clear here, it is not that the information is
necessarliy wrong, although a lot is, more it is not in a form
that is ever useable, because these atttempts to do a job of it,
list part numbers without the anomolies, and quote offset
measurements, which even if you know how to measure this, is not
easy to do, especially with the tyre on. Worse, it will never be
easy to get a seller to do it correctly, so the result is rather
'chocolate tea-pot' useful. What is needed is spot-the-differnce
photos.
So stage left, enter the fuckwit.
This will be a bit of a tome, so accuse me of being long-winded,
but this will be an expansive and as far as possible complete
guide to identifying the various deep-dish steel rims, purely
from the practical standpoint of purchase.
Purchase of these rims This most often means they are not
actually in your sight, either via Ebay ie squinting into a
screen looking for key points in a poorly taken snap, or
chatting down a phone to a seller. It becomes very difficult
trying to extract information to identify a given rim. So, use
part numbers for this at you peril. With this problem in mind,
I'm going help separate out the horse-shit for those of you
buying rims in typical situations.
'Pitchers'
I will add numerous pics of the same rim, so that with only a
poor pic to go on, you can still align from different angles,
and identify the rim on offer.
The first problem:
The terms, One Ton Rims, Fire Engine Rims, 130 and Forward
Control Rims get used as though, interchangeable: Knowingly or
otherwise, even those that should know better, dealers, all are
at it. Often wrongly attributing part numbers as equivalents.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/TripUps4Rims/LRSeriesWrongPartNumber.jpg[/img]
Sold by LRSeries, whatever it is, (a 130 rim), it is not all
three.
Almost weekly I see deep-dish steel rims being sold as something
they're not, not just on Ebay, but by the very people that
should know better, Britpart, the 'addocks, Rimmers, LRseries,
et al. Everyone is at it. If you look, you'll see:
130 tubeless rims being sold as one ton rims
130 tubeless rims being sold as forward control wheels.
One ton rims being sold as forward control rims.
2A forward control rims being sold as 2B forward control rims,
etc etc.
Something far more hard to see is rare rims misidentified and
thus undersold. i done well out of knwowing htsi stuff, and
frankly I'm a littel reluctant to write it, but have a real
stash of rims now, so I should.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/HowToMeasure/RimOffsetXSection.png[/img]
Note: This is how offset [ET] is usually measured, only for our
purpsoes we won't use this.
Deepset
I'm going to invent the term 'deepset' and 'step' for this
guide, which I'm positive is technically incorrect. I'll do this
because of the complete confusion on how the depth of a wheel is
measured and the difficulties in doing so. Offset is the
distance from the center-line of the rim to the hub-face, but it
is hard to measure, or more importantly, hard to instruct
someone to measure correctly for you, especially with tyres on,
and this makes it a hindrance for our purposes. It is why all
those forum lists are hopeless. So, we have my invention,
'deepset'. My deepset measurement would not work for many
complex patterned alloy rims, with other variables, but for our
steel rims it works fine, and there can be no confusion, whereas
if you look across the different forum offset-lists, for any one
rim, three or four different offsets can be quoted. There is
only one way to measure deepset, and it will be a measurement I
have actually measured, rather than copied and pasted from
another forum, therefore it's real, verified, so 'deepset' it
is.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/HowToMeasure/NutfaceToRimDeepSetStep.jpg[/img]
We will measure using this distance. A consistent approach is
required, All measuresments on this post, I have verified
myself.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/HowToMeasure/Measurea56920303.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/HowToMeasure/Measurea56920301.jpg[/img]
A 569203 late 2B rim is being measure here. [93mm Deepset]
#Post#: 40064--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 4:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The parts catalogue:
It should be easy. 1 ton rims have the part number 569204 and
the most sought after rim, the late 2B, has a part number of
569203. Thus, all you should need to know is that all LR rims
including the 6.5 J rims have their hard to see part numbers
(they get filled with paint). stamped on the inter-stud flats.
Only, you'd be wrong.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/PartNumbers/PartNumbers04.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/PartNumbers/PartNumbers03.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/PartNumbers/PartNumbers02.jpg[/img]
The one most can ignore.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/PartNumbers/PartNumbers01.jpg[/img]
The mythical 130, 'One Ton' or 'Forward Control' steel wheel /
rim and "Fire Engine" rim
These have become blanket terms to cover at least four or five
different variations of the 6 1/2 inch wide 5-stud Steel Land
Rover rim, each with a different deepset, all varying by
application. Beware, some are far, far, more common than others.
What those that really 'know' are looking for is the late 2b rim
- and few will get these, and often it is not a question of the
money, you simply will not get to find a set.
With 'old school' deep-dish steel rims going for really rather
silly amounts, and prices rapidly climbing, I'd best include the
numerous pitfalls too. Is eight-spoke wankerdom at last being
seen for what it is? I think so.
Ebay: Only the very well-briefed or lucky should dare buy this
way. Often the sellers genuinely don't know what they have.
Poorly shot pics don't help. In May this year, via their Ebay
account Messrs. John Craddock mis-sold some used rims as FC
rims, and no doubt their 'name' played a big part in the rather
decent price raised. Such is the confusion, I don't think it was
done knowingly, but someone got a lesser set of rims than was
described and probably even now, doesn't know it. Sadly,
squinting at poorly shot pics via an Ebay offering, with the
crucial view of a rim missing, you can be made to think you have
the 'right' rim. And me? I know what I'm looking for, yet when
confronted with an poor photo, I struggle and so will you.
It is why I give plenty of pics at the end.
Solihull have not helped: Solihull have historically done the
most to confuse the issue with various oddities, but more on
that later.
The worst bit, is to buy these rims, by part number, because at
least one part number, the magical 569203, (for a late 2b rim),
is being applied to at least three different 6.5 rims. Thus
rendering the part number only a guide, and a real fools errand
for many more.
#Post#: 40066--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 5:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OK, I'm going to detail the rims, and include the crass issue of
prices, ie the sort of Ebay prices you can expect to pay,
starting with the least desirable and working up:
1. The 101 FC one tonne Gun Tractor Wheel Rim. 6.5J: Tubed.
Let's get this one out of the way. This is a six -stud rim, a
"Walts' only rim, it will not fit a standard Series Land rover.
Not to be confused with the 109 'one ton' rim.
2. Wolf Rims 6.5J: Tubed. The unspeakable rim. Seen in
abundance at Billing. Nearly as bad as a steel disgay rim and in
my book on a series, wrong, fuckin' wrong, bit like fitting
Rostyles, but each to their own.A mild improvement over an 8
spoke I suppose. If you must... I won't cover it here.
3. The 130 Wheel Rim. Part Number ANR1534 6.5J: Tubeless.
[Deepset measures: 78mm ] This is a late era coiler rim, used
on, I believe, Rapiers, Snatch 110s and the 130. This rim is the
most easily sourced of them all.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Fitted%20LeaferwithANR1534/Parksy130RimsX900.jpg[/img]
Parksy's ANR1534 130 rimmed beaut. You have my permission to
wank off
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153408.jpg[/img]
Up until very recently a vast ex-MOD pile were being sold by
Vass in Ampthill for £20.00 a corner. And, whilst you could get
them, they had an equally vast pile of Michelin XZY 7.50 tyres
to go with. Ex-Northern Ireland I think.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153411.jpg[/img]
A Vass supplied ANR1534 130 rim. On Michelin XZY in my book the
top tyre for a leafer. 80,000 miles no sweat. 16mm of thread new
so are vastly heavy compared to even a BFG and twice the price
new. Will bend your door mount. Make anyhting else look very
shoddy, ex-military 50,000+ in Africa, so Croydon won't touch
'em 14 ply, yes - you heard me 14ply.
130 rims ANR1534 look great on a leafer They have the advantage
( if you're that way inclined) of being welded, thus suit a
tubed or tubeless tyre. The 130 ANR1534 is often mis-sold as the
earlier 569204 one ton rim. At the time, Vass too, were doing
this. ANR1534 is a later rim, thus was never fitted to a series
and does not look like a one ton rim. This is because, like all
of them, it is a 6.5 rim and whilst having the same deepset as a
one ton rim, give or take 1-2mm, does not appear as deep . The
wider inner groove, used I believe to accommodate the tubeless
tyre, means the rim at least, has the appearance of something
shallower. It has what I will call , less 'step'. Today, now
that the huge Vass stock has gone, prices have risen steeply.
I've seen a set of these sell with poor tyres (and described as
one ton wheels / rims), sell on Ebay, for £460.00 - Someone got
seen off.
If you really, really, want this rim, it is still available new.
Britpart have them in stock, but wait for it, you will need to
really want it. You get damaged for £220.00 a corner. I have
seen a freak sale for five of these go for £70.00 (Ebay) - What
happened there I don't know, Vastly cheap.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153412.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153410.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153409.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153407.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153406.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153405.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153404.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153403.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153402.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ANR1534/ANR153401.jpg[/img]
#Post#: 40069--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 5:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
4. The early 2A Forward Control Rim Part Number 543384 6.5J:
Version 1 - A tubed rim. [Deepset measures: 72mm] (Construction
4 x groups of 3 x rivets) This rim seems very rare, and I've
only ever heard, here in the UK, of a complete set for sale
once. I can only show you one very poor picture.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/543384/FCEarly2a543384.jpg[/img]
For the moment, the only place I've found largely correct
information on deep-dish steel rims is on an Aussie LR site, so
i'll quote directly...
The rims on the FC are a little interesting, the 543384 rims are
the original rims fitted to all SIIA FC. They were also fitted
to the early SIIB, but it was found that mud & snow chains had
problems fouling on the wider mounted rear springs. The solution
was to deepset the rim by a little to clear the springs when
chains were fitted. However, it seems that the 569203 rims were
not fitted to SIIB in all markets, while at least in the UK most
SIIB were retrofitted with the later rims and the 543384 rims
are rare in the UK. The 1 ton rims 569204 are almost identical -
in fact I have 543384 on my SIII FFR and 569204 on my No.5
trailer and I challenge anyone to spot the difference from
anything other than real close.
Here. I'm not sure, I'd seen different, so for max deepset, the
One Ton Wheel 569204, has slightly more, than the set of 543384
I've seen. They are not the same. There's another version.
5. The early 2A Forward Control Rim Part Number 543384 6.5J:
Version 2 - A tubed rim. [Deepset measures: 68mm]
The last 543384 rim I saw, did have a little less deepset than a
569204, not noticeable at 10 feet away, but in my book, these
are slightly less desirable. There are effectively three
different deepsets for late 2b deep-dish rims, so this might
also account for the discrepency, maybe the factory, made them
differtnly every time they set up the jig for rivetting? For our
purpose, this seecond version is th same as hte first, I only
make the distinction so that should you see it you're not thrown
by it.
With so many FC 2a sadly left to their white modular and eight
spoke fate, these rims when found should really be left on an
FC. But here in the UK anyway, my shortfall of knowledge won't
affect you, because i don't think you'll ever have this
quandary, or even the chance to correct me. You'll likely never
see a 543384 rim.
To actually identify, any of these rims, it's all in where the
rivet is, and the crucial deepset measurement. The part number
is only a clue, more on this later.
6. The One Ton Wheel Rim Part Number 569204 6.5J: A tubed rim.
[Deepset measures: 78mm] (Construction 4 x groups of 3 x rivets)
Not to be confused with the 6 studded, One Tonne rim. Here we
are talking about the 109 one ton, with the usual 5 -stud setup,
and it is said, this rim was also found on the early forward
control 2B. In the UK it is relatively common. When there is
only one, they seem to sell on Ebay, for as low as £25 each.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Fitted%20Leaferwith569204/Fitted56920401.jpg[/img]
Singly they're not worth much. As set of four or five rims. and
you can reckon on around £80-100 a corner. These rims, part
number 569204 are very desirable. ANR1534 rims are being sold as
these, so this has held down prices. Careful, some got marked
569203 and then have the 569203 part number obliterated with a
row of X's, and the correct 569204 stamped next to the
obliteration. Careful: some are marked 569203, which really
throws a curve-ball, but again, more on this later. In real
terms, the 569204 rim is the rim you'll likely find most of, and
get at fairly affordable prices. You might get lucky and get a
set for £250-350. Expect, £80-100 a corner. Three or fewer? Lots
less.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920403.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920402.jpg[/img]
And here are some more pics:
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920423.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920422.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920420.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920419.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920416.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920415.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920414.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920406.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569204/56920405.jpg[/img]
This rim is fairly easy to find.
#Post#: 40070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 5:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You amy not need this stuff, but if you're after late 2B rims ,
you definitely will find this next bit useful.
6. The Erroneous late 2B Forward Control Rim Part Number 569203
6.5J: A tubed rim. [Deepset measures: 78mm] (Construction 4 x
groups of 3 x rivets) Everyone is looking for rims with this
part number, it says you have found a set of late 2B FC rims.
They 'should' be very, very desirable. But careful, this is the
'Non 569203 rim'.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/TripUps4Rims/MarkedAs569203013.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/TripUps4Rims/MarkedAs569203012.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/TripUps4Rims/569204stamped203Ebay.jpg[/img]
This is the trip-up erroneous rim, I think, at the route of much
of the myth.
There are quite a few about. It gleefully declares the 569203
number you really want. Seen on Ebay, the ill-informed see the
seller declare 569203 and bid £4-600+ (without tyres) for a set
of this 'Non 569203 rim'. In their excitement, bidding goes like
they've found Shergar, the pot of gold at the end of the
rainbow, the real deal. But, boys and girls, all is not well.
I've never gotten to the bottom of it, but the 'Non 569203 rim'
appears identical to the One Ton Wheel Rim Part Number 569204
6.5J, because as far as I can see, it is the one ton rim 569204,
so essentially getting a set of these is great. The 'Non 569203
rim' is very desirable, just so long as you know what you are
actually getting. I have seen many of these and I think these
came about as a result of a simple error at the manufacturer of
these rims - Owen's (some are stamped with the Dunlop arrowed
'D'). These rims are lovely things, but not the 569203 genuine
late 2B rim. So, buy them, providing you're knowing what you
have. Careful, there are far, far more of these erroneous rims
around than the real thing.
I have three of these myself, and have seen more sold on Ebay
for silly prices. Two of my own 569204 rims whilst stamped
569204 number also have 569203 obliterated with a row of crosses
stamped over the far rarer 2B part number. I also have two one
ton rims with the 569203 part number with no obliteration. At
first I thought it was someone trying to pass off 569204 one ton
rims as the later 2B rims, but now I've seen these too many
times, for it to be anything other than a factory cock-up. As I
said, desirable and no less so, just so long as you know, what
you really have. This part number foul-up, along with scarcity,
looks to be at the root of a lot of the confusion. Many of the
offset tables you'll find dotted about the various LR forums
have the 569203 rim at much the same offset as the 569204. I
reckon this rim is responsibel for a lot,and probably why it
goes round that FC rims are one ton rims are one ton and vice
versa. Which where this rinis concerned, it makes tha myth true.
To identify these rims, it's all in the rivet, and where it is.
Buying over the phone, requires not a part number, but a ruler.
Myth debunked? This rim does not help.
For a set of four or five, reckon to pay, £80-100 a corner.
Three or fewer? Lots less.
7. The late 2B Forward Control Rim Part Number 569203 6.5J:
Version 1 A tubed rim. [Deepset measures: 93mm] (Construction 4
x groups of 3 x rivets) This is the real deal. Very, very rare.
Deepest of all. Lovely things and the most desirable of all of
the 6.5 steel rims.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Fitted%20Leaferwith569203/Fitted56920309.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
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[IMG]
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[IMG]
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[IMG]
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[IMG]
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[IMG]
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[IMG]
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For every twenty or so, claimed FC Forward control rims seen on
Ebay, I'll put my mortgage on what you're seeing is not this
rim. And I look often. (Yes , I know, it's sad really) This rim,
(569203) is very, very rare. So when you see it, grab it...
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203/56920319.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203/56920315.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203/56920305.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203/56920304.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203/56920302.jpg[/img]
I wiill put more pix for this rim at the end of this post.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203/56920301.jpg[/img]
The way to really see if you have this rim is by looking at how
tight the rivet is to the rim-outer.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/TyreWell204Left203Right06.jpg[/img]
In this pic the white rim is a 569204, whereas the grey is a
569203. See how the rivet gives us greater deepset.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/Fronts204203SideBySide06.jpg[/img]
See the rivet position.This 569203 in Grey, see it is tight up
against the edge of the tyre well in the rim centre.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/InnerRivet20402.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/InnerRivet20401.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/InnerRivet20302.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/InnerRivet20301.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/Fronts204203SideBySide04.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/MyRims/Fronts204203SideBySide03.jpg[/img]
These pics show the difference between the two rims. Here the
569203 is grey & 569204 is white.
Up until recently I'd have told you these were never fitted to
anything other than late 2B Forward controls. Only, I've just
seen a photo of a Portugese Fire Service 109 ( a one ton i think
) with what are definitely a set of these rims, (see it at he
start of thsi psot) so despite anything the parts book says,
maybe some one ton 109s had these too. Or perhaps, these rims
were fitted to Fire Engines only? Who knows what Solihull did,
most likely they fitted whatever was on the shelf at the time.
Either way, if there really is such a thing as a 'Fire engine
rim', this rim (569203) would be it. Careful, most of those I
hear use the term, don't actually know what they really mean.
They're pricey, and go for as much as the equally sought after
split rims the Series 1 guys all seem to want. I've seen one
569203 set sell, on Ebay, rims only, for £870 last year, and
that was for four. Those appear to have gone to an American
buyer - what it cost to have those things freighted across the
pond, I hate to think. Probably half as much again.
What might you expect to pay? I paid what I thought was a crazy,
£150 for my first one, £160+courier for my second, and have
gradually collected my own set. Equally I saw a set of five go
for £570 last year. But the market for these has been distorted
by the 'Non 569203 rim' and mis-selling of the 130 rim, and the
misinformation. And Ebay being Ebay, prices seem to vary wildly,
but it seems those that 'know', when they see them, always bid
very strong, then again, Ebay is Ebay, so you might get 'lucky'.
I did , I got one for £70.00 recently, but it was poorly listed
by the seller and I don't think too many saw it. It is all about
rarity with this rim. It's a sellers market. If another bidder
has three, the fourth rim makes three pieces of scrap-iron worth
a helluva lot to someone. This rim would be worth, if it were
purely about rarity, 15-20 times more than a 569204, but
fortunately, if you want them, they're not.
8. The late 2B Forward Control Rim Part Number 569203 6.5J:
Version 2 A tubed rim. [Deepset measures: 98mm] (Construction 4
x groups of 3 x rivets) A very slight variation on the previous
rim, has a deepset of 98mm but for all intents, the same rim. I
just bring your attention to it here, so that should you see it,
you know what you have. The extra deepset is gained not by
moving the rivet any nearer to the hub on the rim-outer, but by
drilling the 3 x rivets holes on the rim-centre edge closer to
the wheel-hub.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203Version2/569203Version2.jpg[/img]
There is more 'meat' on the overhang. I have only ever seen one
of these. It's in my stash at preset.
#Post#: 40071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 5:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
9. Oddities. I bring these obscure options to your attention,
but how you'd come to get hold of the first two, who knows.
a) The 1950s BMC LD commercial van rims (where used by triallers
for the same reason they liked the late FC rim). Wider track,
They fit.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Alternatives/LDVan.jpg[/img]
b) Some, (not all) Austin Champs have deep dish rims. They fit.
I believe 'Lurch' has some of these.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Alternatives/LurchsChampRim.jpg[/img]
c) And for our Aussie cousins, this:
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Alternatives/MorrisTruckSplitRimsFitSameOffset.jpg[/img]
Morris truck rims fit.
d) I'm not sure oddity is the right way to describe these. Far
from it, here we have a very decent, but left-field solution. If
all else fails, you want Roam rims from the US. The Yanks can't
get the sort of rims we speak of, but unlike the wankerdom that
is your average Billing-attending Brit, they would not consider
eight-spokes, disgay rims and fuckin' Wanker-wolfs. How they
'get' it, I don't know, by this I mean, Land rover ownership,
they seem to know what a Land rover is, and should be. See:
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/Alternatives/RoamWheels.jpg[/img]
HTML http://www.roamoffroad.com/wheels.php
OK, I think they've gone a bit 'simple' on the tyre sizes, and
what the fuck is a fender, a hood and a lug-nut anyway, but
that's Yanks for you. They get a thumbs up from me and that is
indeed high-praise from the usual bum's rush and toxic bile I do
my best to expel.
As an aside, how is it that when the Yanks 'do' a series, they
seem to know more about Britishness than we do?
OK, next...
#Post#: 40072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 5:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Tyres
When buying these rims, tyres, often don't help. Price is vastly
affected by the fitment of tyres and whether the seller will
offer to courier or allow a courier to collect such an awkward
and expensive to move item.
Good tyres don't necessarily help the value, if you think about
it, why would they? - unless buyer and seller are local to each
other, you'd have to courier the tyre as well. So tyres can
force the price down, so moving them by courier gets daft. Those
that know, want the rims, so tyres, even good ones, are not
necessarily desirable. So if you're buying, and you're near,
tyres are a good thing for two reasons. You get to use them, and
they stop other buyers bidding. I was so desperate to get my
last rim, I begged the seller to remove the very decent tyre. it
was going to cost as much, or more, to move than the tyre was
worth, and many couriers won't move that weight anyway. Removing
the tyre put the rim into most courier's weight limit. My seller
got a tyre back, but I got my real 569203. If you're selling, I
suggest you take the tyre(s) off. All these rims, (without
tyres), weigh 14kg each. At courier rates, that can be a big
"Ouch". Some couriers won't touch it. Suggest you use Myhermes,
they have a 15kg weight limit per item, pick-up from sellers, or
if your seller is out, get your seller to drop off to the
nearest news-agent/grocers (many offer Myhermes). All you need
do is email your seller the Myhermes labels, get them affixed,
barcode visible, to each rim. (of course, no wrapping required).
Within the UK, excluding Highlands and Islands, it'll still cost
you £8.00 + VAT each, thus £50.00 odd to move a set of five, but
I've not found cheaper. Job done.
A note of caution: I am not an expert on tyres, I was told, not
to consider a tubeless tyre on a tubed rim. It is not just about
the rivets leaking, so don't weld them up, it is to do with the
seating of the tyre, and the bead fitment supporting the tyre in
a blow-out etc etc. But I have to say, I'm not sure I see the
logic to this, so this may be bollox. Don't do it unless you
really know what you're doing here. I hope this is safe to do,
would solve a few issues. Does anyone know?
This is a welded up 569203.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203Welded/569203Welded03.jpg[/img]
Welded 569203. A good idea or Stupidity?
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203Welded/569203Welded02.jpg[/img]
Welded 569203.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/569203Welded/569203Welded01.jpg[/img]
I would not put my name to this, so if you do 'know'. I for one
would like a definitive answer. Tyres is seious, No idiots and
bullshitters please.
Also you would not put a tube in a tubeless tyre, the inner wall
is too rough on the tube, so the tube fails. I understand you
can put a tubed tyre and tube, on a tubeless rim, but ask an
expert, I make no claims here. For my money the right tyres for
these rims are usually tubed anyway.
#Post#: 40073--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Fuckwit's non-bollocks guide to identification of a deep-dish
Land Rover rim.
First, ignore the numerous part number lists and cross-section
drawings that seem to get copied and pasted from one forum to
another. They are of little use in identification, where 569203
is concerned anyway.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ComparisonPix/Wheels.jpg[/img]
Here from another forum is a pic of 569203 shown, accordinging
to their post against a 1 ton rim. I am almost sure this is not
true, and is yet another way to confuse you all.
I am almost convinced, it is being compared to an ANR1534 rim
being called a one ton. The reason I think this is the step
looks short and the tyre-well is squarer compared to a 1 ton
rim. The myth continues. But I don't have ANR1534 to hand so
will not verify it. So for your reference.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ComparisonPix/ANRTyreValley03.jpg[/img]
ANR1534 against a stcck rim
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ComparisonPix/ANRTyreValley01.jpg[/img]
ANR1534 rim valley. See how square and wider it is.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ComparisonPix/569203ANR1534.jpg[/img]
Rim on left is 569203
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/ComparisonPix/569203ANR1534Split.jpg[/img]
The secret? use fuckwit's pix, and look at the rivet, or best of
all, measure. More pix at the end of this post.
Measuring a rim's deepset with the tyre on is awkward, but can
be done. Offset is virtually impossible to do accurately tyre
on.
#Post#: 40074--------------------------------------------------
Re: Buyers Guide to Super-Hereto Deep-Dish, Forward Control, One
Ton, 130 Rims
By: fuckwit Date: October 17, 2012, 6:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Cleaning them up
Shot-blasting is best, but remember, blasting won't get in under
the riveted section. Often you can't see the part number until
after shot-blasting. I had my first set powder-coated, it cost
lots of loot and now I wonder if it was worth it. Firstly, you
won't get a match to limestone or any other LR standard colour,
so you'll have to go over again in paint anyway, and secondly,
I've since seen powder coating, once water gets under it,
powders off again. Whilst powder coating is nice, I'm not so
convinced of the wisdom of it. I suppose the over-painting I did
will help stop the water getting under the powder. If I was
doing it again, I'd shot-blast and then paint. Cheaper, and
likely nearly as good. Galving would be overkill, but very nice.
Gay Brakes: Disc Conversion Kits
I do have real experience with my particular installation, the
Mk2 Heystee kit using PS10 Santana parts - all the rims here can
be made to fit the Mk2 Heystee kit, done by grinding the corner
of the caliper casting as advised in the Heystee installation
instructions for the kit.
[IMG]
HTML http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj547/oneordinarybloke/Land%20Rover%20Deep%20Dish%20Rims/BrakeKit/My569204HubsideOne.jpg[/img]
You don't have to grind off the centre-rim edge of the 569204 as
done here to fit the MK2 Heystee kit.
Some of the other disc conversions kits struggle with deep-dish
rims. I believe the Zeus/Toro kits have issues, so need spacers
(I think), which if you are fitting 569203 will put the tyre
outside the wheel-arch, and the Heystee Mk1 Merc van based kit
might have trouble, but can be made to work.
Precisely 'what fits what' with the other kits, I'm not sure of,
so I say this to bring your attention to it. Your mileage may
vary.
Spacers and wheel bearings
I have to say the argument about increased wheel-bearing wear
might stack fitting these rims, just as it would for spacers.
The one ton, 130 and FC must also suffer. Wheel bearings are
cheap to replace anyway, and I've had no issues so far, but I do
keep an eye on it. Some would say forget deep-dish rims, put
spacers on. No, not for me, when 130 rims can be got for not
much more? Why?
Handling
I would summise that handling is improved. Wider track must
help. It certainly felt more stable when I fitted my 569203
rims, but then that may be all in my mind, and as much to do
with the tyre change I did at the same time.
Turning Circle and Deep Rims
If you suffering from WBDS [Wheelbase Deficit Disorder], there
are some advantages to your lack of inches, for a start, shorter
wheelbases gives tighter turning circles.
There is also a train of thought that says, the wider the track
at the steering end, relative to the non steered-end, the
tighter your turning circle gets. Which is why forklifts and
those classic Morgan 3-wheelers can almost turn in their own
length. It is also why the 569203 has historically been sought
after amongst the trialler crowd. I was told, in trialling the
max track is set in their regs to include production parts only
and thus includes as a maximum, the track set by fitting this
very rim [569203]. Another reason, if you needed any, for why
the 569203 rim has been sought after. Does it work? unless you
stretch to four-wheel steer, 'spose it must do, but I'm no
trialler, so can't say, I've ever tried it. Likely never will.
I got two 569203 rims from an old guy, an ex-trialler, he told
me, the only allowable method, under their regs to get that
extra 4" track over standard rims was to fit these rims. It was
also him that told me about Champ & LD van rims.
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