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#Post#: 37298--------------------------------------------------
Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be good?
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: September 17, 2012, 4:37 am
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This is my first ever query with you people, and one that if you
Google it, I've seen addressed lots of times, but never to my
mind fully and accurately. And I quote: "Adjust steering until
it is play-free with no tight spots" yada yada, etc etc.
Wanderin' steering, it seems to be the Archille's heel of
leaferage, the conclusion seems to be "They all do it".
There's heaps going on in the system, room for wander in both
the box, the relay, and lastly the TREs.
All of you are driving steering systems that must be 30-40 years
old, so yours can't be mint either, so in asking this question,
making absolutley no allowances for wear, how should a
good-as-it-gets, like new, proiper, proper, series steering be?
This assuems you run stock rims, stock 7.50s, nothing gay, or
fucking monster-truck.
You see, I fitted a new steering box recently, my relay is spot
on, my TREs new, my steering should be good, like new, and OK,
it does not wander, yet it is still far from precise, by modern
standards it is awful.
Am I expectign the impossible, it is a 40-50 year old design,
should I carry on compensating for that, or have i got a dog?
If we want super-tight, wander free steering where moving 1/2"
at the wheel rim does something at the road-wheels, can we get
it?
Without the, "Mines tighter than yours", (Fnah, fnah) b*llshit.
At the outer edge of a standard series rim, what play should we
all expect?
#Post#: 37299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: Goose
Date: September 17, 2012, 4:58 am
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There is more to vehicle wandering than the steering system. Is
the chassis straight? Axle u bolts tight? Chassis bushes good?
Springs Level? What tyres do you have? Crossplies will be much
worse than radials.
You'll never get the steering as precise as a modern motor, but
it shouldn't have heaps of free play in it either.
#Post#: 37300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: September 17, 2012, 5:10 am
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Agreed, there are many other factors that may feck it up. Tyres,
chassis, tracking etc etc.
It is why I will limit this query to the steering-assembly
alone, and the paly in it. Thus assuming all else to be correct
and proper, dead-ahead, statioanary, at the steering-wheel rim,
rock it to and fro, what play do we all expect to see? I get
40mm which in my book is excessive. But that might be good,
which is the root of my question.
What is our benchmark, the "Fuck off mate, it's forty years old,
you're not getting better than XXmm, now don't be a wanker, go
away...." consensus figure.
#Post#: 37302--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: The Rhubarb Cowboy
Date: September 17, 2012, 5:48 am
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Any idea how many shims you have on the bottom swivel? ( I think
removing shims tightens up the steering please check this in the
manual first ;-) ) But the more shims the looser the steering
will be!
#Post#: 37306--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: September 17, 2012, 6:26 am
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The steering box shims were played about with at the tiem of box
fitment and likely need another tweak. The new box must have
been made of rice pudding. I'm pretty conversant with all the
adjustments, and how I could arse it up. I'm about to dive in
and have a proper go at the lot.
As i thought, 40mm is excessive? So what improvement can I
expect to get, at what point, am I chasing the 'Pot of Gold at
the End of the Rainbow" here?
#Post#: 37310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: Huffo-James
Date: September 17, 2012, 6:45 am
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I assumed Rhubarb was talking about shims in the swivels, not in
the steering box.
If your swivel pre-load is wrong, your steering will be
somewhere between impossibly heavy and "Shit! How do I keep this
thing on the right side of the motorway crash barriers!".
The best steering Series I've ever experienced was one that had
been recently rebuit by Dunsfold LRs. I couldn't quantify
exactly how much "slop" there was on it, bacause I only made a
qualitative assessment, but I've never come across one as good
since.
I think a reasonable target would be 25mm of free movement at
the steering wheel rim.
Cheers
James
--
1956 Series 1 - Huffo
#Post#: 37313--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: September 17, 2012, 7:00 am
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Oh, er, yes he was. Sorry Rhubarb. My present problem seems to
source from the steering-box, movement in the steering wheel is
lost, long before it gets as far down the steering-chain as the
swivels.
Anyhow, from where it comes from is not the question, the
answer is 25mm. OK, 25mm is a fair bit of play, so 40mm is not
good, but actaully not that bad.
FFS.. it jsut goes to show, how modern cars have had me spoilt.
Tail between legs then.
#Post#: 37315--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: ProDave
Date: September 17, 2012, 7:05 am
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Se my recent tread about apalling road holding in the wet.
There's a LOT more to good road holding that tight steering.
My own investigations (with the help of the foum) found an
illegal and dangerous tyre combination (radials on the front
crossplies on the rear) a loose set of axle to spring bolts, and
a buggered TRE.
Having put that right my steering is very tight. No discernable
"play" in the steering wheel. As soon as you move the wheel, the
wheels turn.
But the road holding compared to a modern car is still shit and
I am sure it will always be. Though in my case a new decent set
of radials all round I am sure will improve things.
I still find mine is very prone to wander at high speeds and
particularly in a strong cross wind. (but at least it no longer
changes direction when going from drive to over run and no
longer suffers gross oversteer)
#Post#: 37358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: fuckwit
Date: September 17, 2012, 2:13 pm
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Actually I had read your thread. Sounds like you PO suffered
from " hard of thinking" syndrome. I'm after sorting the
steering-proper first, ie linkages, box etc etc, before I go
external to that, so that it 'works' to ex-factory.
In the case of my 109 I can vouch for the PO, becaue there has
never been any, so problems (if any) are age related only. It
has new bushes, shocks etc etc.
Everything else has been properly maintained, and it has had new
'everything'. It should be tight as it could ever be, so the
route of my question is about what I should expect in steering
'play' and you appear to expect not much at all. That I'm not
seeing on mine.
#Post#: 37362--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proper Tight Series steering: Can I really expect it to be
good?
DIR By: thorpey
Date: September 17, 2012, 2:23 pm
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check the two track rod ends between the steering box and the
relay or adjust the play out of the steering box (daft one a
colleague at work had the support for the box and bulkhead come
lose)
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