URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Old Leafsprung Land Rovers
  HTML https://ollr.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Technical tips & Questions
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 35127--------------------------------------------------
       Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: ProDave
       Date: August 25, 2012, 3:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Took my 1972 S3 88" out to a classic car show today.
       On the way back it was raining pretty hard. First time I've
       driven it in such wet conditions.
       At the first roundabout, coming off at my junction, the back end
       swung out and it was all I could do to ease off and regain
       control.
       Now this is a Landrover. I wasn't trying to drive it like a
       rally car, and was frankly shocked and dissapointed at the
       atrocious grip it had in the wet.
       Two things spring to mind.  It's an 88" truck cab and it was
       empty, so it would be a bit light on the back end.
       Secondly I have odd tyres.  On the rear are town & country tread
       patterns, on the front are more "town" tread patterns.  I'll go
       an look at the actual sizes and types tomorrow, when it's
       daylight and hopefully stopped raining.
       All tyres appear to be in good condition and have plenty of
       tread.
       I don't recall wet roadholding so bad when years ago I had a S2A
       LWB so why is this one so bad?
       #Post#: 35128--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: rbrtcrowther
       Date: August 25, 2012, 3:26 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       My first land rover was an 88 2.25 diesel, It had Avon Traction
       Mileage cross plys all round,  I was 17 years old and would hand
       its arse out on every bend i could when it was raining, It was
       easy at such low speeds even with a 2.25 diesel.  I fitted some
       205 radial remoulds and it was like a different motor.....really
       hard to make it step out.....cross plys are shite even on a 12
       Ton Scammell radials are an improvement...
       #Post#: 35139--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: smackitwithanammer
       Date: August 25, 2012, 5:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Get some better tyres. Changing from cross to radial made a
       world of difference to mine - mostly to the front end when
       steering.
       Can still kick the back out pretty easily but I drive like a
       twat  8)
       #Post#: 35300--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: estwdjhn
       Date: August 28, 2012, 1:22 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote ---
       > I don't recall wet roadholding so bad when years ago I had a
       S2A LWB
       --- End Quote ---
       And there you have your answer. An 88" having a lot less
       wheelbase than a 109" is consequentially a lot less stable,
       particularly if unladen (or badly laden - one with a lot of
       weight behind the back axle can be quite exciting).
       Back in 2007 I parked Bitsa (109") up as it had lots of holes in
       the chassis, and bought a 88" Series 3 diesel. The 88" came
       without legal wheels and tyres (it was cheap and had T&T), so I
       stuck Bitsa's set on it. I nearly spun it inside a week, driving
       a route I knew well, slightly slower than I tended to travel in
       Bitsa.
       That said, there are lots of things you can do to mitigate - the
       biggest of which is fitting modern roady pattern radials - they
       make a world of difference over crossplys (and offroad treaded
       radials too). Even if you just get some truck tyres (I run
       Michelin X patterns on Bitsa these days), it will do a world of
       difference with the road holding.
       The other thing to do is learn to roll with it a bit - get to
       know the thing's limitations, and live with them. I ragged Bitsa
       round at some speed on a set of bargrips(a bit like carrying
       ones own portable skid pan) for a while, and didn't come a
       cropper, probably because after the first week or two (and one
       roundabout where it took two laps to get slowed down enough to
       come out of the drift it was in with some hope of getting down
       an exit) I'd a pretty good idea what it would or wouldn't do,
       and I then tended to try and drive accordingly...
       #Post#: 35308--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: RMS
       Date: August 28, 2012, 3:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Tyre compound makes a massive difference.
       You can't expect a high-miler hard compound tyre to work well in
       the wet!
       We've got Michelin ZXYs on one of our Carawagons - now they are
       a proper truck tyre; 100k miles life and virtually
       indestructible (14 ply rating!) but they slide like an ice lolly
       on a hot day if the road is damp or wet   :o
       Check to see what yours has got on and post back here - someone
       will no doubt have experienced the same ones and will be able to
       tell you if they should be ok or if you should be thinking about
       a 'better' tyre.
       Or, just learn to live with them - enjoy learning to slide it
       around roundabouts   ;D
       #Post#: 35315--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: daveedwins
       Date: August 28, 2012, 6:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Tyre pressures??? cheap and easy checks first!!
       #Post#: 35317--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: NoelC
       Date: August 28, 2012, 7:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ProDave link ---
       >
       > On the rear are town & country tread patterns, on the front
       are more "town" tread patterns.
       --- End Quote ---
       That may account for it if one end is radial and the other
       crossply. I normally run Michelin XZY 750R16s on the 2a 109 and
       contrary to RMS's experience I find them fine in the wet and
       stable as you like at 60mph on the motorway. I suffered a
       puncture and had to fit a pair of Deestone Goodyear Hi-Miler
       crossply copies on the back to get me going one weekend, the
       damn thing was downright dangerous as a result. Anything over
       45mph on a straight, flat motorway it was all over the place.
       The Deestones when fitted as a set of 4 were nowhere near as
       bad.
       As has been said ^^^ it'd be worth checking the pressures too.
       Certainly XZYs like to run at a higher pressure that the book
       says, maybe due to the mega ply rating. I think I run at 30psi
       on the 109, they look flat as heck at 25.
       #Post#: 35346--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: ashcrroft752
       Date: August 28, 2012, 2:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Michelin XCA plus on mine, very easy to slide the rear on a wet
       road.
       #Post#: 35349--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: ProDave
       Date: August 28, 2012, 2:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi guys
       On the front are Frontier 7.5 R 16 8 ply rating more or less a
       road type tread pattern.
       On the rear are Alliance 7.5 16LT 8 PR more of a "town and
       country" tread pattern.
       Both plenty of tread.
       I'm assuming that both of these are crossply tyres (since
       neither mentions radial)
       I also sense looking and feeling it that the rear is very hard
       rubber, perhaps they are just too old and the tyres are past
       their best?
       Anyway today I've driven a fair way.  Even in the dry, on a
       twisty, hilly, bumpy road, the car has a tendancy to oversteer,
       feels like the back end twitching out.  In the wet well I have
       to really slow down and be careful.
       At the moment this is just supposed to be my "fun" car and I
       hate spending money where I don't have to, but it looks like it
       won't be long before I look for some better boots than these.
       As a short term fix, might I be better with the tyres swapped
       front to rear? is that worth a try? If I'm right about the rear
       tyres being very hard, swapping them over might lead to
       understeer, which is easier to deal with (usually)
       #Post#: 35351--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
   DIR By: RMS
       Date: August 28, 2012, 2:51 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OH NO  :o :o :o :o :o :o
       Radials on the front (denoted by the R in 7.5 R 16) and
       crossplies on the rear makes for dangerous handling, to the
       extent that it is illegal!!
       You can fit crossplies on the front with radials on the rear
       legally, but not the other way round   :o
       *****************************************************
       Page 1 of 5
   DIR Next Page