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#Post#: 35127--------------------------------------------------
Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: ProDave
Date: August 25, 2012, 3:20 pm
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Took my 1972 S3 88" out to a classic car show today.
On the way back it was raining pretty hard. First time I've
driven it in such wet conditions.
At the first roundabout, coming off at my junction, the back end
swung out and it was all I could do to ease off and regain
control.
Now this is a Landrover. I wasn't trying to drive it like a
rally car, and was frankly shocked and dissapointed at the
atrocious grip it had in the wet.
Two things spring to mind. It's an 88" truck cab and it was
empty, so it would be a bit light on the back end.
Secondly I have odd tyres. On the rear are town & country tread
patterns, on the front are more "town" tread patterns. I'll go
an look at the actual sizes and types tomorrow, when it's
daylight and hopefully stopped raining.
All tyres appear to be in good condition and have plenty of
tread.
I don't recall wet roadholding so bad when years ago I had a S2A
LWB so why is this one so bad?
#Post#: 35128--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: rbrtcrowther
Date: August 25, 2012, 3:26 pm
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My first land rover was an 88 2.25 diesel, It had Avon Traction
Mileage cross plys all round, I was 17 years old and would hand
its arse out on every bend i could when it was raining, It was
easy at such low speeds even with a 2.25 diesel. I fitted some
205 radial remoulds and it was like a different motor.....really
hard to make it step out.....cross plys are shite even on a 12
Ton Scammell radials are an improvement...
#Post#: 35139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: smackitwithanammer
Date: August 25, 2012, 5:54 pm
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Get some better tyres. Changing from cross to radial made a
world of difference to mine - mostly to the front end when
steering.
Can still kick the back out pretty easily but I drive like a
twat 8)
#Post#: 35300--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: estwdjhn
Date: August 28, 2012, 1:22 am
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--- Quote ---
> I don't recall wet roadholding so bad when years ago I had a
S2A LWB
--- End Quote ---
And there you have your answer. An 88" having a lot less
wheelbase than a 109" is consequentially a lot less stable,
particularly if unladen (or badly laden - one with a lot of
weight behind the back axle can be quite exciting).
Back in 2007 I parked Bitsa (109") up as it had lots of holes in
the chassis, and bought a 88" Series 3 diesel. The 88" came
without legal wheels and tyres (it was cheap and had T&T), so I
stuck Bitsa's set on it. I nearly spun it inside a week, driving
a route I knew well, slightly slower than I tended to travel in
Bitsa.
That said, there are lots of things you can do to mitigate - the
biggest of which is fitting modern roady pattern radials - they
make a world of difference over crossplys (and offroad treaded
radials too). Even if you just get some truck tyres (I run
Michelin X patterns on Bitsa these days), it will do a world of
difference with the road holding.
The other thing to do is learn to roll with it a bit - get to
know the thing's limitations, and live with them. I ragged Bitsa
round at some speed on a set of bargrips(a bit like carrying
ones own portable skid pan) for a while, and didn't come a
cropper, probably because after the first week or two (and one
roundabout where it took two laps to get slowed down enough to
come out of the drift it was in with some hope of getting down
an exit) I'd a pretty good idea what it would or wouldn't do,
and I then tended to try and drive accordingly...
#Post#: 35308--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: RMS
Date: August 28, 2012, 3:40 am
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Tyre compound makes a massive difference.
You can't expect a high-miler hard compound tyre to work well in
the wet!
We've got Michelin ZXYs on one of our Carawagons - now they are
a proper truck tyre; 100k miles life and virtually
indestructible (14 ply rating!) but they slide like an ice lolly
on a hot day if the road is damp or wet :o
Check to see what yours has got on and post back here - someone
will no doubt have experienced the same ones and will be able to
tell you if they should be ok or if you should be thinking about
a 'better' tyre.
Or, just learn to live with them - enjoy learning to slide it
around roundabouts ;D
#Post#: 35315--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: daveedwins
Date: August 28, 2012, 6:15 am
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Tyre pressures??? cheap and easy checks first!!
#Post#: 35317--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: NoelC
Date: August 28, 2012, 7:25 am
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--- Quote from: ProDave link ---
>
> On the rear are town & country tread patterns, on the front
are more "town" tread patterns.
--- End Quote ---
That may account for it if one end is radial and the other
crossply. I normally run Michelin XZY 750R16s on the 2a 109 and
contrary to RMS's experience I find them fine in the wet and
stable as you like at 60mph on the motorway. I suffered a
puncture and had to fit a pair of Deestone Goodyear Hi-Miler
crossply copies on the back to get me going one weekend, the
damn thing was downright dangerous as a result. Anything over
45mph on a straight, flat motorway it was all over the place.
The Deestones when fitted as a set of 4 were nowhere near as
bad.
As has been said ^^^ it'd be worth checking the pressures too.
Certainly XZYs like to run at a higher pressure that the book
says, maybe due to the mega ply rating. I think I run at 30psi
on the 109, they look flat as heck at 25.
#Post#: 35346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: ashcrroft752
Date: August 28, 2012, 2:40 pm
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Michelin XCA plus on mine, very easy to slide the rear on a wet
road.
#Post#: 35349--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: ProDave
Date: August 28, 2012, 2:48 pm
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Hi guys
On the front are Frontier 7.5 R 16 8 ply rating more or less a
road type tread pattern.
On the rear are Alliance 7.5 16LT 8 PR more of a "town and
country" tread pattern.
Both plenty of tread.
I'm assuming that both of these are crossply tyres (since
neither mentions radial)
I also sense looking and feeling it that the rear is very hard
rubber, perhaps they are just too old and the tyres are past
their best?
Anyway today I've driven a fair way. Even in the dry, on a
twisty, hilly, bumpy road, the car has a tendancy to oversteer,
feels like the back end twitching out. In the wet well I have
to really slow down and be careful.
At the moment this is just supposed to be my "fun" car and I
hate spending money where I don't have to, but it looks like it
won't be long before I look for some better boots than these.
As a short term fix, might I be better with the tyres swapped
front to rear? is that worth a try? If I'm right about the rear
tyres being very hard, swapping them over might lead to
understeer, which is easier to deal with (usually)
#Post#: 35351--------------------------------------------------
Re: Atrocious road holding in the wet: mixed tyres?
DIR By: RMS
Date: August 28, 2012, 2:51 pm
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OH NO :o :o :o :o :o :o
Radials on the front (denoted by the R in 7.5 R 16) and
crossplies on the rear makes for dangerous handling, to the
extent that it is illegal!!
You can fit crossplies on the front with radials on the rear
legally, but not the other way round :o
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