URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The Mighty Nuovo Falcone VOC
  HTML https://nuovofalcone.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Engine and Transmission
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 1571--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: huub Date: September 7, 2016, 2:24 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       the engine barely reaches working temperature, unfortunately the
       exhaust valve does.
       #Post#: 1572--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: cloggy Date: September 8, 2016, 2:25 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I don't believe heat is the sole problem. I have a couple of
       sidevalves. Run them hard at night and the exhaust port is
       glowing cherry red. They dont seize or break valves.  In an
       annexe to this website it's states that the camshaft only gets
       fed oil when the revs rise enough to get the oil above a certain
       pressure, thus the cam's  quietening ramps  can wear making
       valve movement abrupt and stressing the valves. Certainly if the
       tips of the lobes wear the change in profile can be abrupt,
       though that doesnt always happen. Even so I've worn cams on
       japanese motors and they still dont break valves. I've heard
       that the original valves on these are two part friction welded.
       I've never heard of that before but then if valves dont break
       it's not something one gets into.
       Is it always the exhaust valve that breaks?
       #Post#: 1574--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: banquo Date: September 8, 2016, 2:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I guess as the failure is catastrophic, it's difficult to know
       the root cause of failure, but I'd always assumed that the valve
       stuck open, got clouted by the piston, and the head broke off
       from the impact. I'd never considered the possibility that the
       head came adrift first.
       My opwn theory, based on very little, is that new guides control
       the direction of valve movement well. We already know from
       experience that the valve guides suffer from wear, and once that
       occurs, the valves will tend to move in an axis that's no
       parallel to the original guide bore. Once the angle is steep
       enough, there's the potential for the stem to dig in and jam,
       resulting in failure to close.
       If that were true, then replacing the guides on a regular basis
       would resolve the problem?
       Never heard of an inlet valve issue, but that means nothing....
       #Post#: 1575--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: huub Date: September 8, 2016, 6:34 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       last time my NF suffered a dropped valve the guides were fine,
       so was the (upgraded ) oil pump and the camshaft.
       due to its position the exhaust valve gets pretty little cooling
       oil, the expansion from the valve stem and the pushrod reduces
       the clearance when the engine heats up.
       my theory is the valve starts to leak because of too little
       valve clearance , cant loose its heat to the seat, overheats and
       snaps.
       i cant imagine the valve sticking open with the spring pulling
       it shut, and hardly any contact with the guide.
       i might try steel pushrods ,
       steel has half the expansion rate of the original alloy...
       i did a quick calculation, the difference between a steel
       pushrod and a alloy one is 0,25 mm with a hot engine.
       i dont think the NF valves are welded , but welded valves are a
       industry standard.
       usually the highly stressed head is made using different alloy.
       #Post#: 1576--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: cloggy Date: September 8, 2016, 7:00 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You'd need the guides to be worn to hell before the angle
       changed much. I didn't see any sign of seize marks on Huub's
       valve stem.  Another relevent theory is that the valve springs
       are too strong but since it happened to Huub's uprated valve
       then that theory should be out the window too. The engine being
       horizontal probably makes a difference to how much oil gets down
       the guide. I noticed that great dollops of oil got delivered to
       the rockerbox every time I turned the engine over when I was
       setting the valves. They go click clack at all running
       temperatures I've managed to run so far. But my engine appears
       superficially to have a good oil delivery system. One half
       heared push on the kick start and the oil pressure light goes
       out.
       Be interesting to know if any motors with upgraded oil
       seals/pump/auxilery oil line ever have valve failure.
       #Post#: 1577--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: huub Date: September 8, 2016, 7:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote]Be interesting to know if any motors with upgraded oil
       seals/pump/auxilery oil line ever have valve failure.
       [/quote]
       mine did
       #Post#: 1578--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: cloggy Date: September 8, 2016, 7:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Right then, I'll try and make sure the tappets don't close up,
       not bother with any "upgrades". Noticed elsewhere that a better
       big end feed seal means less oil bleeding to other parts of the
       motor, causing further "modifications".
       Also read elsewhere that dealers say the engine is bulletproof,
       but to keep an eye on the tappet clearances.....
       If it happens after hard running maybe the heat weakens the
       valve and then when tappets return to normal on a cooler motor
       it can't take being thumped back into the seat
       #Post#: 1585--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: banquo Date: September 9, 2016, 2:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There's that mismatch between the recommended valve clearances
       between the riders manual and the workshop manual. The narrower
       clearances give a quiet engine, but I lost compression after
       climbing a steep hill, and had to wait until it cooled off
       before it would start. Since then I've run with the wider (and
       much noisier) clearances, although it was burnt valves I was
       worried about, not broken ones. What we need is hydraulic
       tappets!
       #Post#: 1847--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: cloggy Date: March 7, 2017, 1:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I've been pondering this and wonder if the massive size of the
       pushrods don't store a huge amount of heat and that's where the
       valve  problems emanate from. Also an engineer mate has
       reiterated that lead helps dissapate heat from the valves. Just
       wondering if hydraulic tappets wouldn't help. Bit bored as
       recovering from double hernia op, more annoying than anything
       else. Think one's fine and then twang! bugger.
       #Post#: 1848--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Preparing for a Long Trip
       By: huub Date: March 7, 2017, 2:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       i have actually looked at using hydraulic lifters...
       modified dodge/jeep lifters would fit, you would just need to
       drill a extra oilway into the lifter tunnel to provide the oil
       pressure
       just the exhaust would probably be enough, i've never seen a
       inlet valve fail.
       i am first going to  try steel pushrods. that should provide
       enough valve clearance with a hot engine.
       if not , hydraulics are the way to go.
       i wish you a fast and full recovery,
       i've had back problems and i was basically immobile for a couple
       of months, pretty hard if you are used to 6 hours of workout a
       week.
       *****************************************************
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page