DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
NotSerfs
HTML https://notserfs.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Basics
*****************************************************
#Post#: 570--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: daza.mistwalker Date: December 14, 2013, 9:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting comparison with some interesting results
Manza. While percentage is a winner, it isn't by as much as I
would have thought considering the level and power of your keep.
I would have guessed the differences to be a lot more.
Especially in the case of your first pair, this seems to suggest
that specializing doesn't offer a clear enough advantage
compared to going with a general approach. The one who is
trained more towards general battle lends her stats to all three
fight attacks, while the second guy is specializing in fight
attack only. Clearly, more research is needed, especially on
the defense side of things. I'm also interested in comparing
results after a SS is wounded, if the advantage becomes more
marked. With your keep stats, I'm guessing that you don't
suffer wounds nearly as often!
#Post#: 571--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Obara Terys Date: December 14, 2013, 10:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My only input here is to say thank you both so much - this is
such valuable information! Please keep experimenting!
#Post#: 573--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Agatenha Date: December 14, 2013, 12:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
@Daza
Yes, the difference actually surprised me because Yniys, the
full stats, seemed to be better in adventures and BOSS and
Alliance challenges. But it can be explained:
At first momment the raise of Battle stats makes your SS
independent of their weak equipment, helping to uplvl. As I have
a mid-power keep it isnt difficult to uplvl them until 18 using
common equipment or letting them naked (too many SSs get me
lazy). Notice that +100%Fight makes every uplvl 2 stats become 4
points when attacking (percentage used to give me as basis 3 -
3,8- as I have only recently upgraded my Keep Str) plus
equiping, so increase on attack is clear, while % maths can be a
mistery. But here it comes the thing: Full Stats are better BOSS
challenges, my experience. Attacks are more consistent, constant
average.
When it comes to AvA its difficult to experiment because we're
not in a AvA, but go figure:
(a common SS, lvl 18, replaced and uplvled)
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
If dead and replaced once = Str -1+2 If dead
and replaced once = Str - 1, %+1
If dead and replaced x5 = Str -5+10 If dead
and replaced x5 = Str-3, %+5
If dead and replaced to lvl 3 = Str-15+30 If dead and
replaced to lvl 3 = Str-3, %+15
Made my point? On first AvA there was a setting that allowed SSs
to be immediatly replaced (no 24h waiting) so alliances that
were always under attacked explored it and had this as a
strategy to strenghten their defenses. NOT SERFS disaproved it
and did not explored it, believing it wasnt a fair gaming
exploring that. But during last AvA it changed and I had 21 SSs
killed, specially when it was that final change when WICSoBeware
attackes us. Most of them I used to check and test defenses, but
well I had the cooldown so it isnt ilegal, and yes I had SSs
killed to lvl 2, but is not worth because you're obligated to
chose a Stats and I use %.
Now on camps:
(a keep at 300Battle, +50% def/attack)
(a common SS, lvl 18, naked to make it easier in a Battle camp
lvl 5)
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(33 + 300 + 100)(50% +101%) = 589 (3 + 300 +
100)(50% + 116%) = 669
Imagine now that we equip him with +5 Battle + 10%Battle Def
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(38 + 300 + 100)(50% +111%) = 705 (8 + 300 +
100)(50% + 126%) = 718
Imagine now that we get him naked again and equip with +30Battle
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(63 + 300 + 100)(50% +101%) = 699 (33 + 300 +
100)(50% + 116%) = 719
(Imagine now that we he defends @camp that is same specialized
as your SS.)
Imagine now that we equip him with +5 Battle + 10%Battle Def
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(38 + 300 + 100)(50% +111% + 10%) = 749 (8 + 300 +
100)(50% + 126% + 10%) = 759
Imagine now that we get him naked again and equip with +30Battle
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(63 + 300 + 100)(50% +101% + 10%) = 745 (33 + 300 +
100)(50% + 116% + 10%) = 762
Imagine now that this SS were killed to lvl 3 and uplvled to 18
again (Stats Str-15+30 / Scrapper Str-3, %+15)
Naked first:
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(33 + 15 + 300 + 100)(50% +101%) = 676 (0 + 300 +
100)(50% + 116% + 15%) = 724
Imagine now that we equip him with +5 Battle + 10%Battle Def
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(38 + 15 + 300 + 100)(50% +111%) = 729 (5 + 300 +
100)(50% + 126% + 15%) = 774
Imagine now that we get him naked again and equip with +30Battle
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(63 + 15 + 300 + 100)(50% +101%) = 721 (30 + 300 +
100)(50% + 116% + 15%) = 778
Well I can see a couple of interesting things, so just out of
curiosity lets make it with a lvl 10 camp (200battle):
Imagine now that we equip him with +5 Battle + 10%Battle Def
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(38 + 300 + 200)(50% +111%) = 866 (8 + 300 +
200)(50% + 126%) = 894
Imagine now that we get him naked again and equip with +30Battle
Stats SS x
"Scrapper" (% SS)
(63 + 300 + 200)(50% +101%) = 850 (33 + 300 +
200)(50% + 116%) = 885
So I tried to use acceptable stats on this, sth a lvl 100~200
player is capable to achieve. Results in bold are the more
effective for healthy SS and camp, on every scenarium bloc.
So, basic thing: the Stats x Percentage is not a straight line,
but a curved one. If someone is up to do that, have my blessing
but i'm a noob on such programs. So in case of low lvl camp (5)
it was better to equip a Scraper with mid-stats equipment. In
case of higher lvl camp (10) It was better using a scrapper with
percentage equipment.
Well game is much more complex than that and you have to keep an
eye on equipments. The arrange make it different.
Maths is not exactly correct because I did it a faster way, but
difference is not really expresive. It would be good if you guys
do such accounts too in your current SS, and current equipments!
Its not necessary to try all possibilities, just try high Stats
equipments, High def% equipments and maybe mix them. Please let
us know the results so we have a more solid basis to discuss and
propose players how to defend camps.
The Math I used here was:
(SS stats + Equipment Stats + Keep Stats + Camp Stats)x(SS % +
Equipment % + Keep % + Camp % + 100%)
This is the fast and easy way to calculate, I think, but I'm not
sure its the way GoTA works. So if you'd like to try this other:
Keep stats + SS stats + Equipment Stats + Camp stats + (keep
stats x keep %) + (Keep stats x SS %) + (keep stats x Equipment
%) + (Keep stats x camp%) + (SS stats x SS %) + (SS stats x
equipment %) + (SS stats x Camp %) + (Equipment stats x
equipment %) + (Equipment stats x Camp %) + (camp stats x camp
%)
Well I think its prob about the same result. You guys tell me
please, i'm in Human Sciences and thats enough maths for a hole
weekend.
Please share!
#Post#: 575--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: daza.mistwalker Date: December 14, 2013, 4:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Even though we're not AvA, we can still compare effectiveness
with PtP which would be somewhat analogous by sending a couple
out on patrol and comparing their defensive results when they
get hit/wounded and that is where I'm going next in my little
experiment.
But from what I see with your results, the so-called "scrappers"
are modest winners, especially at lower levels.
At the moment I've just equipped my low level merchants with
decorative swords using barter seals (I have dozens of them!)
These are the cheapest and fastest weapons to make. At first
they do not look like weapons at all, but after applying 3 seals
they put MANY other weapons to shame as they increase both base
and percent stats.
#Post#: 576--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Warg Date: December 14, 2013, 5:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
One of the most important places to put a high % gain piece of
gear is on your main character, that way the rest of your SS all
enjoy and share the bonuses, for example my main character has a
Heavy Warhammer of Anger with a seal of the stag attached giving
+12% to fight when attacking so putting your best gear and seals
to boost percentages on your main character can really boost
your power.
#Post#: 582--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Rohanne Storme Date: December 16, 2013, 12:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
According to the posted results "scrappers" appear to be modest
winners but they are winners nevertheless.
When starting the game (or after reincarnating) "scrappers"
could suffer a bit but around the end of vol.1 I think they
should be already quite powerful.
Regarding their impact on AvA, the stronger our camps, the
stronger our scrappers will be, while "full str" will remain
"flat".
For garrisoning, "full str" could be good as jack of all trades
until we have at least 9 SS (supposing to train each one in one
particular kind of attack). Once we have one SS for every
possibile incoming attack (or for every kind of camp) I think
"scrappers" >> "full str".
The only scenario where a "Full Str" seems to be better is
probably a Boss fight, where the kind of attack changes during
each phase and, in the end, we could end up with only one
favorable kind of attack and two unfavorable. But to be honest,
Boss fights are not my priority :)
#Post#: 588--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: sparki1980 Date: December 16, 2013, 4:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
AVA DEFENSE PLAN:
Everyone plan to garrison at least 2 SS, more is suggested so
you can cover more camps -- so that you may swap them out if
something happens (they take damage) -- If you can muster more
go for it. But 2 is would we would appreciate for a minimum for
each member to have available to garrison.
Of these garrisoned ss, you will want them to be your BEST
common or uncommon swords... boost the crap out of them if you
can. If they die, they will cost less to replace (1200 or 2000
silver) than the others... and since we will no doubt be spam
attacked, there is good reason to believe that they will die
(even if they are peerless), thus the 30 extra skill points are
meaningless. Percentage based "scrappers" are also more
important than the 30 extra points a peerless might bring to the
fight.
There are 5 harmful actions that we need defended: Fight,
Harass, Swindle, Sabo, Steal... If we can garrison the correct
way to defend against each type of harmful action... that would
be ideal. This will require you to rotate ss in and out based
on the situation. You will need to keep tabs on our defensive
layout we post here on the forum and in the Message of the Day.
Now what to equip them with. We must discuss what being a
scrapper based defense means for our strategy and what gear is
best to outfit your defenseive scrapper. You will need different
DEFENSIVE gear to cover all 5 harmful actions. Even if you
can't get an SS for each harmful action, swapping gear will help
(in a pinch a Fighter can be equipped with defensive harass
gear).
WHAT THEY WILL DEFEND AGAINST & WHAT YOU WILL NEED
Lets face it, someone wants to barter, bribe, aid, or spy us..
we won't care to much. No sense in putting in ss to defend
against friendly attacks... if you lose a barter "attack", you
take no damage. SO these are the attacks we will need to
defend:
WEAPONS
There are not to many scrapper weapons that will help: Weapons %
is attack only, your garrisoned SS will only ever defend. So
give them the highest strength item that helps their type, and
had 0% increase. This means the 15=0% or 20+0% items that you
get from questing are better than the 10+6%ATK items:
Useful Weapons for Defense from questing:
Questing will be the easiest and quickest way to get a 15+0%
Weapon.. the hardest to come by will be the intrigue.. use a
dagger if you got one.
Fight and Harass Defense:
Great Swords & Great Axes - 15 for Battle
Steal and Sabo Defense:
Tears of Lys & Garrote - 15 for Intrigue
Swindle Defense:
Fire Opal Rings & Trade Route Maps - 15 for Trade
ALL DEFENSE:
The perm daggers from the end of volume 1. If you have it these
will be better than the others equip to your garrison defenders
Other useful defensive weapons:
Sabo & Steal:
Poisoned Ring (Shipyard): 15 to Intrigue Def. If you have one
of the Vol 1 daggers handy.. give it to this ss. you will
probably have more items avail for the other trade/battle
garrisoned ss than the intrigue.
Harass & Fight:
Partisans (Training Yard). 10 Battle + 5% Battle Def.. A
defensive weapon!!! The best and only "scrapper" weapons for
battle defense!
Arakh (Reliquary). 15 to Battle Def
Swindle:
Black Diamond ring (Arbor). 15 Trade Def
ARMOR
Armor is a great place to beef up your scrapper. The skill
based % to armor is defense. The easiest to come by will be any
of the 10+6% Def items in many of the buildings. Sadly this
will be easier for those who have the fealty buildings, but some
are available in quests... Furs for Sabo defense in the hunting
lodge, Surcoat for harass defense in the Shipyard.
There are some excellent items available to even the
un-reincarnated can get with limited rare resource farming:
ITEM (BUILDING) - RARE RESOURCE (ADVENTURE TO FARM), ...
Alloy Bracelet (Warehouse) - Lead (Vol 3 - Lvl 21) & Precious
Ore (Vol 3 - Lvl 11)
Great Swindle Defense. Swindle is the only Trade action that we
need to really defend from, so this bracelet is of great use.
Level 21 and 11 are open day and night, so farming this should
be easier than most.
Masterwork Splint Mail (Holdfast) - Steal (Vol 3 - Lvl 17) &
Dyed Textile (Vol 3 - Lvl 19).
Great Fight defense.
UNITS
Units have boosts to both Attack and Defense, and will be great
for your defensive scrapper. Find the best units you can make
and go for it. Like the Partisan weapon, Phalanx and Elite
Phalanx will cover both Fight and Harass Defense.. and are a
good easy way to help out in multiple areas.
----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
AVA ATTACK PLAN
Recommendation is to outfit/equip your garrison defenders first
with your best gear. The rest be your attack drones. Use the
weapons with the bonus to attack stat, use the armor with no
bonus (as it is defensive) and use what units you have. With
good coordination we can take down the defenses of our enemy and
any attack can land, thus even weak sworn swords can be very
useful in AvA Attack.
The best attacks to gear up for will be: Fight, Swindle, and
Steal.
These attacks provide the best return of Victory Points (the all
important bottom line in AvA).
But fear not the other attacks will be useful:
Barter: Barters will be needed to help boost our camps silver
with allies... But even if your barter attack fails, we still
get silver. Any sword can barter no matter how weak at Barter
skill... Infact, if you can not participate in any other way due
to being a level 1 character - you can be be very productive in
AvA just by sending ANY sword to barter.. fighter? thief?
protector? doesn't matter.. they will barter like champs, even
if they lose the barter they win.. we get silver and I don't
even think they take any damage.
Bribe: Rarely used, sometimes an ally will request it to help
speed their construction, but most of the time just send them to
barter.
Sabo: is great for cutting down enemy defense. It will be very
useful. it has no risk to the alliance if you fail.. which is
why it has lower Victory Points
Aid: Allies will need aid at times, however Aid is messed up,
you will need to have a strong protector to get around their
defense for some reason.
#Post#: 612--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: marcellae Date: December 17, 2013, 10:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
ok, i really do not understand the percentage and so on study..i
am preparing now for reincarnation..what would you prefer (for
example) to make pernament and why -legendary broadsword of fish
(8,5,5 and 10%bribe A, 5% Fight A) or dangerous Hefty broadsword
wtih just 30 points for Battle...thanks
#Post#: 624--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: daza.mistwalker Date: December 17, 2013, 5:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
ok, i really do not understand the percentage and so on study..i
am preparing now for reincarnation..what would you prefer (for
example) to make pernament and why -legendary broadsword of fish
(8,5,5 and 10%bribe A, 5% Fight A) or dangerous Hefty broadsword
wtih just 30 points for Battle...thanks
I wrote a bit on it in the reincarnation thread, but the short
answer is the +30 Hefty broad sword. The bribe attack is not
worth so much, although 10% is a really good amount. If it was
10% for battle or fight attacks the decision would be more
difficult. When you reincarnate and put that hefty sword in the
hands of a peerless you are keeping, you'll slice through
challenges and get more cool stuff much faster and easier.
#Post#: 626--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: marcellae Date: December 17, 2013, 11:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
ok, thanks Daza :)
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page