DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
NotSerfs
HTML https://notserfs.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Basics
*****************************************************
#Post#: 551--------------------------------------------------
A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: daza.mistwalker Date: December 12, 2013, 11:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
An experiment with percentages vs player plus stats
After our camps were repeatedly decimated and sworn swords
(SS’s) all but murdered the last round, I set out to see if I
could figure out how to better garrison defenders at our camps.
For me, I have always based the power level of my SS’s on the
+level of their stats and weaponry paying little attention to
the percentages which tend to be very small numbers. Why go to
the considerable trouble and expense of crafting a metal shield
that takes a hand slot and only delivers a +1 for battle when I
could have a long sword that delivers +3 for far cheaper and
more quickly? The metal shield delivers 4% to battle when
defending, which adds nothing when adventuring which is what my
SS’s spend most of their time doing, or attacking in PtP play.
Beyond the obvious trade-offs when training for percent vs broad
stats is what happens when a SS is wounded in battle. Every
time a SS is wounded, they suffer a deduction on their broader
stats, causing a decrease in their effectiveness. Subsequent
wounds and defeats cause more deductions, resulting in a
downward cascade that makes the SS much easier to kill on
subsequent attacks. However, there is no corresponding
deduction on the percentages that I can see.
My hypothesis is that training and equipping SS’s based upon
percentage instead of raw plus stats and having specialized SS’s
garrisoned would be more effective especially in the camps we
tend to build up to higher levels. Could a lower level SS with
higher percentages of defensive stats more effectively defend
against SS’s with higher stats? A second question I had was
what if the SS was trained almost exclusively in increasing
their specialty percent; would they still be able to fight
equally well despite any number of wounds?
METHOD
I first wanted to see the effect of percentages vs broad level
power. So I sent a SS named Eli out on a simple quest to the
Neck to prevent the Mudders Poaching, the first adventure:
Initial ss (Eli) = rare +2 battle (no equipment or seals or
boons)
House level 111
House battle stat +277
Talent +24% to fight when attacking
Talent +14% when attacking or defending
Mudders poaching Battle +6
ADVENTURE 1: +277 + 2 + 64% = 458
The first thing I discovered is that it was impossible to
continue an adventure once the ss advanced a level without
training them first. This made Eli’s stats go from +2 to +4,
which made the next adventure thus:
ADVENTURE 2: 277 + 4 + 64% = 461
I then decided I wanted Eli to specialize in skirmish defense so
sent her on one more adventure, only this time with my
skirmish/harrass stats which are 2% higher than my fight stats:
ADVENTURE 3: 277+4+66% = 467
Already, there was some interesting things to note. Increasing
Eli’s power by +2 from +2 to + 4 yields a gain of 3 points on
her total attack points. Increasing her percentage by 2%
increased her from 461 to 467 for a gain of 6 points toward her
attacks or twice as much.
At this point, Eli has reached the next level, and I made her a
skirmisher, increasing her 1% in harass attacks and defenses and
sent her back to the Neck to harass.
ADVENTURE 4: +277+4 + 67% = 470
Adding a single percentage yielded 3 additional attack points to
Eli’s total. So I added a Militia unit to Eli, giving her a +1
for a total battle stat of +5. I sent her back to the Neck to
harass one more time.
ADVENTURE 5: +277 + 5 + 67% = 471
Next, I decided to send Eli to the Frost Fangs to Swindle in a
battle she was likely to lose (+209 + 24% = 260 vs 294) and sure
enough she lost, getting one wound and she suffered a deduction
of 1 point. However she kept her percentage. So I sent her
back to the Neck for another skirmish:
ADVENTURE 6: +277 + 4 + 67% = 470
RESULTS AND DISCUSSION
When a player is first starting out, or just after
reincarnating, their total number of points is low, and so it
makes sense to train SS’s on the basis of their raw power rather
than with percentages, since the gain is mathematically small.
However as they advance and gain more total stats, the
percentages become more important. In the above example, I was
able to increase Eli’s power by 3 for each percentage increase.
So even though a metal shield only has a +1 stat, a 4% defense
means it equates to a gain of +12 against attacks, making it far
superior to the long sword.
Adventure 6 answered the second part of my question. Eli was
able to fight at nearly full strength, even with one wound. The
loss of strength was negligible whereas if I had added another
fight point instead of a skirmish point, her strength would have
been reduced in larger proportion.
This has some important ramifications in PtP defenses, AvA
battles and garrisoning. The camps we build typically carry a
great number of points (500+), especially in later phases when
attacks are more consistent. This means that both attackers and
defenders with higher percentages will fare much better than
those that rely on the simple stats alone. And this makes the
extra time, expense and bother of crafting well worth the effort
especially for higher level players. In PtP play, the boons
come into their own when a player has stats above 200. Adding
seals to rare and better equipment further empowers them.
This has totally changed the way I equip and train my SS’s,
paying more attention to the percentages than the other stats.
By training my SS’s exclusively in their specialty, I can make a
very cheap and low-level SS almost equivalent in power to a more
expensive peerless SS just by training differently. I can now
begin trading out equipment to reflect this new focus, which it
is not a coincidence comes from the higher level and more
expensive buildings.
#Post#: 552--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Arafel Date: December 13, 2013, 1:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In the little Alliance I just came from we had a discussion on
this as well. We referred to SS with the high percentage rates
as Scrappers. If you go look at this facebook page you can see
what Lord Calderon was driving at.
HTML https://www.facebook.com/wardensnorth
I only ever put scrappers on as Garrisoned swords in AvA (once I
lost a peerless SS I also only put cheap, replaceable ones in
there =) )
#Post#: 554--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Agatenha Date: December 13, 2013, 8:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey nice post! There's sth that was in my mind not to change
from "str" to "%" trainning, but because I noticed most players
have High Str SSs and I from begginig prefered raising %, so it
was a difficult task. Only this month that I noticed that for
Challenges and PtP full Str SSs are better. Now my keep has high
%, so I am training peerless like that, but only three. i still
prefer % SSs.
I'm sendinga pic of my SS when attacking on AvA.
My keep was about 400 Battle, 80% Harass when attacking. Neck
camp was Harass, lvl 16.
Wild Shierle Swann: She's lvl 22 peerless, 30+2 Battle training
and +51 Battle from equipments. 20% training harass + 21% harass
from equipments (never understand why its "31%" written there,
may exist a limit? doesnt make sense). And her attack from Neck
= 2248.
As i didnt have a full str to compare i cannot say much, but if
someone else has, please share.
Now I have more doubts and I'm starting to think that somehow %
is really wrong. I'll check and say later.
BTW, BOSS and challenges are a bit crazy: a full Str works
better than a "Scrappers".
And yes, garrison common and in my case Scrappers too. They're
pretty good on that.
#Post#: 555--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Rohanne Storme Date: December 13, 2013, 8:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Very interesting study. I use to level my SS by alternatively
adding one point to (let's say) Intrigue and 1 point to Steal.
Actually my highest SS is rank 23 and I think I will start to
level them by just increasing their % as your study suggests ;)
#Post#: 556--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: sparki1980 Date: December 13, 2013, 9:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Nice job, thanks for researching. I posted this in the in game
chat, but figure I should copy it here so it stays -
My running philosophy goes by this: I have 2 items (a) a 6+0% vs
(b) a 3+3%. For normal operation, I go with the percentage
based item. Getting your character to 100/100/100 stats for
battle/trade/intrigue takes little time & at 100/100/100 the
3+3% = 6+0%. But as you increase from that point, the 3+3% gear
gets stronger. So it takes minimal time for a 3+3% > 6+0%.
BUT
I regularly try for the 15+0 body armors and weapons. The
highest percentage armor you can get (excluding the rare builds)
is 10+6%. For a weapon this is not bad, on weapons the % is
applied to attack. For armor the % is applied to defense. In
AvA you can only garrison 1 SS per camp. That SS may need the %
boost, the rest will be attacking.. Say you are at 200/200/200
(since armor is a defense bonus only) the garrisoned ss will get
10+6% = 22 while defending; Your attackers in that armor will
only get the 10... in this case the attacker benefit from the
15+0% armor. On the flip side, since weapons are attack only,
the defenders will benefit more from the 15+0 weapons.
For Units, I always go for the %. Units boost is applied to
both attack and defense.
Also for AvA: I'm starting to think that the 13/0/13 or other
split stat items that I use to think sucked (because, why does
my fighter need trade stats?).. I think they could provide
usefulness to AvA. You may very well find your fighter as the
only garrison left, trying to defend against a swindle attack.
Same goes for the gear that offers a smaller % to say "Battle"
instead of a larger % for "Fight". This way your fighter can
have a boost against incoming harassers aswell.
Just open thoughts...
#Post#: 557--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Agatenha Date: December 13, 2013, 9:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Now on adventures,
Right now my Keep is: 427 Battle, 84% Harass atq/def.
Mag Dayne: he's lvl 18 rare, 6+2 Battle training and +28 Battle
from equipments. 14% training harass (no idea why he isnt 16%) +
12% harass from equipments. Attacking on adventure = 1014.
I changed equipments to have same Str and no additional %. His
attack on adventures = 917.
So 97 str difference per 16 percent points.
If i had used those 16 pts in Str it would make 32str.
Using data above and 12% from equipments, it would be: 427 + 36
+ 32 * 1,96 = 970
Using data above with no % equipments, it would be: 427 + 36+ 32
* 1,84 = 910
So good comparison is:
"Scrrapper" ~ 1014
"Full Str" ~ 970
BUT, if I use the same math to first scenarium, it is 427 + 36 *
2,10 = 972. Ohhh it is still better than 970, but why isnt my
maths calculating 1014? Is there some hidden bonus??? I dont
know mathss???????
Please help!!!!!!!
#Post#: 559--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Agatenha Date: December 13, 2013, 9:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Jonos
The "well-balanced" garrison is interesting, but should be
thought in group. I'm always garrisoning and noticed that my
Full Battle SS was also set to defend Spy, in wich he sucks.
Period. So a more balanced SS is better to defend different
attacks, but I noticed that oce i did it, more attacks came to
my SS and then he got hurt more often. I have Nettle Poutlice
for that, but at times they die. So i tried another way: as
usually Winnie's SS defend Battle because they're really good at
that, I started to mix-up Swindle and Sabo defenses, and somehow
it worked pretty good! See the attachment. I have tons of those.
They not only are good swindle and sabo defenders, but - I think
- as I have good Fight % def on my keep (103%) he was set to
defend Fight too, and succesfull defenses arround 70% on that.
Just an idea.
Oh but when i equiped him with Phalanx (Battle def only) it was
a mess and he defended more Battle attacks and well almost died
faster.
So... its an idea.
#Post#: 560--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: sparki1980 Date: December 13, 2013, 10:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@Agatenha, I'm trying to figure out your first post. In my
experience, I have noticed at one point that my ss stat equip
numbers were not adding up correctly. I had a 10+7+20 = 30 or
something like that.. it was easy to notice since one of the
equip stats had an odd 7 in it, but it wasn't showing up in the
totals. I unequiped everything and re-equiped and the numbers
made sense.
As for your other observation with a balanced garrison. My
belief is that the garrison is not a true round robin. I think
it selects the best defender available for a stat, taking into
account wounds and maybe some kind of round robin elements..
which might be why you started seeing more other attacks when
you went more balanced. I don't know, just trying to figure it
out.
#Post#: 562--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: daza.mistwalker Date: December 13, 2013, 12:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for all the interesting thoughts replies! This is an
experiment that is easily replicated by sending your own SS's
out naked and then changing their equipment. There are still
some untested scenarios, such as sending out a patrol for PtP
where they defend against a specific sort of attack.
I have 2 alts with 2 different houses, and obviously I do
different things with each. This one is focused on
reincarnating while the other is simply building strength to the
highest level and that is the hold where Eli lives :-) More
points, more resources and command points = more options.
One attraction to this game is the sophistication involved in
making various choices and it would be boring if everyone did
exactly the same thing. However, AvA requires a greater level
of coordination and discipline. And emotional preference still
plays a role. After losing a couple of SS, even if they were
cheap, I wanted to beat the crap out of the enemy! But
bloodying them while they are attacking also works. We were
weak in garrisons for most of the last phase and the changing of
the rules created a minor crisis for our camps. Properly
training and equipping our defenders helps engender confidence
which means a more powerful force. Just like in real battle,
once the defenders start to break, they tend to run away en mass
turning a loss into a route.
One way to increase the percentage odds is by the use of seals,
and every gear/unit above common has one open slot. The
decorative sword has 3 open slots, which means the right seals
could turn that ugly duckling into a customized and fierce swan!
#Post#: 564--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Study on Percent vs Stats: A guide to better AvA Garrisons
By: Agatenha Date: December 14, 2013, 12:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yey Yey finally got 2 different build SSs,
- My keep 430battle 114% fight
- one full Stats other full percentage,
- both lvl 19,
- same seal (bs: +1battle +1% fight att/def).
- once naked, once same equip (79 + 13%)
And one hybrid SS:
- 30 + 12 Battle / 13%Fight
- no seal
- lvl 20
- once naked, once same equip (79 + 13%)
Results attached. For comparison.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page