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#Post#: 5575--------------------------------------------------
Random NO6 talks
By: kare_reiko Date: August 15, 2015, 2:06 am
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Ok, I made this topic about all things from no.6 so it won't die
so fast like others topics here.
So, if anything related to NO.6 happen, or you had something
random, even no so important to say about NO.6, here's place.
I will start. Today's "Roommates before lovers" was finished. It
was nice AU fanfiction, it's was interesting and I remember how
I waited how autor will explain Shion's past.
As for little add more to talk about Nezumi's abuse actions. He
don't use force only to Shion, we see him using a little mind
abuse to Inukashi too, it's his way of doing things. He used
force to protect his feelings, since he only reacted with force
when Inukashi started to mention Shion. None of his abusive
actions are caused because of lust or need to complete
subordinate others to him.
#Post#: 5576--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: lawlya Date: August 15, 2015, 7:51 am
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To add to that discussion, I recently had a thought:
We established that Nezumi lacks the mindset of an abuser
although his behaviour can be seen as abusive. His intention
isn't to control Shion and making him dependent on himself but
to make sure Shion survives. And Nezumi only ever resorts to
violence (physical or psychological) when he's either afraid of
Shion doing something that might very well end up killing him or
when he fears for his own life because well, Shion easily
triggers him.
Now, considering that Nezumi grew up in the West Block, was
thrown into the underground of the Correctional Facility and
lived in those caves until he could flee, I'd say that Nezumi's
only reaction to fear is either fight or flight (which is
basically the most normal response to fear of any kind. All
humans have those same instincts and the decision isn't even
made consciously).
Holding a knife to Shion's throat is really a no-go and I think
we all agree that that's pretty ****ed up (I mean, apparently
fist fighting isn't that big of a deal between boys? I see that
with the male friends of a friend of mine. They're pretty much
okay with that. A knife on the other hand is something totally
different.) Okay, where am I going?
So, Nezumi was afraid (no way he wasn't; Shion making a serum
out of his blood and going back to No.6 where he would surely be
executed). But there wasn't a possibility to flee the situation.
It was his home. If he flees from his home where should he go?
Where should he feel safe again? With the flight response out of
the way, the only way left was fighting. We all know how that
ended (with Shion not being very impressed and Nezumi being very
confused).
Ehm ... yeah, I hope it made as much sense as it did in my head.
It's really hard to bring thoughts like these to paper :/ It's
hot in Germany too so my brain is kinda fried.
I think whether or not a relationship is abusive depends on the
offender's intentions and the victim's reactions for me. And
Nezumi isn't a typical abuser (I might say; I'm not an expert on
the topic) and Shion definitely isn't a typical victim of abuse.
And saying that Nezumi's physical abuse triggered Shion to
strangle Sasori and shoot Rashi ... Shion nearly choked Rikiga
before and you can't tell me that little brawl that ended up
with nearly-nose-biting could have made such a big impression on
Shion. Shion wasn't a lamb to begin with and he wasn't all that
mentally stable either.
Though I don't doubt Nezumi's influence on his break down after
realizing he killed Rashi.
#Post#: 5577--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: Weisel Date: August 15, 2015, 11:22 am
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One thing I keep going back to about Nezumi's actions being
abusive is SETTING!! Like, of COURSE if anyone was doing the
shit Nezumi does in real life, it would immediately be labeled
as abuse. But the world of No.6, where Nezumi's family was
killed and he was raised in an extremely hostile environment,
only allows for basic survival and not a lot of compassion or
emotional development. He definitely is left with only "fight or
flight" to get him through a lot of things.
And I agree completely, Nezumi does NOT have the abuser mindset.
He honestly believes he's doing what he has to do to protect
Shion's life. He didn't have any parental figures from the time
he was like... twelve? So it's not like there was even anyone to
tell him "no Nezumi, don't put knives to people's throats" and
even if he DID have someone to raise him then, chances are in
the West Block someone WOULD tell him that's the best way to get
through any difficult situation. I really don't think he had the
chance to grow up without some misconceptions like that.
I'll just outright say it, but I've had a couple people abuse me
in my life so I'm pretty good at spotting abusive people, and
while Nezumi's behavior in our own personal lives would
absolutely be considered abuse, that's simply how he was raised
to be and he's not acting that way with the same intentions of
an abuser. The big thing is that as soon as he sees what's
happening, he tries hard to change it because that's not how he
actually had wanted things to be.
My speculation on why Nezumi left was that he felt he was doing
more harm than good in Shion's life, and that he felt like he
had to do some growing up somewhere else on his own. Of course
being the way he is, instead of dealing with those emotions, he
was like "it's all in the past and I have to stop feeling things
about this matter" as we see in Beyond when he refers to Shion
as a thing of the past. That's basically how he's gone through
life anyway, with the loss of his family and everything. He
treats those pains as something of the past and moves on...
which only works temporarily, you lil shithead. Go see a
therapist, Nezumi.
#Post#: 5578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: lawlya Date: August 15, 2015, 12:35 pm
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Yes, setting. I mean, No.6 is basically war, isn't it? With all
the trauma going on and such. And even perfectly normal people
snap and hurt the people they love the most under stressful
situations like these. Imagine Nezumi with his less than social
upbringing.
I never wrapped my mind around it that Nezumi left to grow up,
really xD I mean, I don't doubt that he had to leave and grow up
and that he probably would have done more harm than good and he
would have found a way to completely fuck up his relationship
with Shion with those not-so-good coping mechanisms he developed
all on his own.
I personally think he (as in: what he thought) left because it
was the only thing he ever looked forward to when No.6 wasn't
anymore. He wanted to leave that place and go somewhere else;
see the world and leave the demons of the past behind (hence,
leaving Shion behind; wouldn't be the first time he equals Shion
to No.6 after all ...). Ironically, it's obviously not what he
wants from his life anymore and therefore, he still clings to
the past by leaving. And that's why Shion keeps haunting him.
#Post#: 5579--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: Weisel Date: August 15, 2015, 12:52 pm
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Ohh, maybe it's sort of a "if I stick to my old beliefs things
will go back to how they were" kind of thing. It's hard to
explain (at least for me) what that is, but... Obviously he
doesn't want to be attached to Shion, probably because any
attachment Nezumi has had in the past has led to pain when he
loses those people. So instead of acknowledging that he WANTS to
be with Shion, he's like "I've wanted to travel away from here
for so long. If I do that, I'll finally be happy." ...Even
though he WON'T be happy leaving behind that bond he has with
Shion. This boy is such a mess and I'm grounding him. No dessert
for a year.
#Post#: 5580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: kare_reiko Date: August 15, 2015, 3:22 pm
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lawlya pointed one good thing out. I'm talking about Shion's
actions. While talking about Nezumi abuse topic and how it was
showed later in Shion's actions in correctional facility I
totally forgot Rikiga scene from beginning of story. Shion
attacked Rikiga on his own. Nezumi still didn't had so much
influence on Shion at that time. It show that Shion's later
actions aren't caused in 100% by Nezumi's teachings. He may had
some influence on Shion but it wasn't like Shion was so pure
inside. Maybe Nezumi only bring it out into surface.
No.6 is great because nothing is so simple as it looks at first
view. Both of them are so complex... You can't simply say who
they really are.
I really wish there was someone who would help Nezumi overcome
his trauma, so he didn't have to leave Shion. It's all too sad.
#Post#: 5581--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: lawlya Date: August 15, 2015, 6:12 pm
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Funnily enough, @Weisel's icon is a constant reminder of that ;)
It wasn't just the Rikiga scene though. Shion already showed
violent tendencies when he was twelve ("Destroy it all" and
such). It's like ... well, at one point in Volume 7, Nezumi
wonders when Shion lost his fangs and claws. I think they're
just buried very deep and all the stress in West Block and the
hostile environment brings that forth in Shion. He protects the
people he loves no matter what and everytime he lost control, it
was just that: Protecting loved ones (namely Nezumi. We never
got to see Shion protecting someone else but I'm sure that
wouldn't end up significantly less violent).
It's there. Shion might not have these instincts for himself but
he sure as hell has them for others.
Nezumi's behaviour and words just gave Shion a name for it:
Punishment. Nezumi was appalled that Shion would go so far but
maybe he was just as appalled that he would use his own words to
justify nearly killing a person. And maybe he finally started to
see that he has had an influence on Shion after all and to
wonder what else he picked up in the disguise of his pleasant
personality.
#Post#: 5582--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: Ahiku Date: August 16, 2015, 10:58 am
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[quote]I may had some influence on Shion but it wasn't like
Shion was so pure inside. [/quote]
Yeah, Shion was never that pure to begin with, just like Lawl
said:
[quote] It wasn't just the Rikiga scene though. Shion already
showed violent tendencies when he was twelve ("Destroy it all"
and such).[/quote]
But Nezumi is too messed up to understand it. Like Shion told
him, Nezumi can just see black and white and nothing in between.
Shion is either good/pure, or he is a monster and evil. He
should be a monster and evil, since he’s from No. 6 and he
starts to think like that again when they are in the pit,
because I guess his nerves are super raw. Even though he’s
trying to act tough, I’m pretty sure this is a horrible mental
situation for him (for Shion as well, but especially for Nezumi
who’s already deeply traumatized…) But Shion is not just pure
and not just evil. He is both, because he’s a normal human. He
has his flaws… but Nezumi tends to put him on a pedestal… but
Shion is the same, somehow he’s also doing this, even though I
think Nezumi is worse. He’s not fair, absolutely not fair.
I think, Nezumi also has to learn that there’s not just black
and white, but also grey. Shion taught him so… it’s not just
Shion who’s getting influenced by Nezumi, maybe it’s Nezumi
who’s even more influenced by him. Shion is just Shion, and I’m
pretty sure Shion would also have killed if it were for Safu or
his mother when he’s in such a situation. I think he’ll defend
everyone he loves like that, if necessary.
Shion is not a saint. And he never said that he is one. He’s
gentle and seems to be a nice boy, but he can be cruel as well…
the bee inside of him suppressed a lot of his true character and
his emotions as well, so it was not just Nezumi’s doing, even
though he showed him the real world and helped to change his
point of view in regard of No. 6 a bit…
#Post#: 5583--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: kare_reiko Date: August 16, 2015, 12:43 pm
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I think that Nezumi always took Shion's words into his heart.
Everything was important and Nezumi wanted to believe it. Just
as they argue about hope, future and stupidy of flower festival,
that Shion again shot stright to his heart to explain that such
events are parts of people's freedom. He didn't show it in front
of Shion but in next scene in theater we see that Nezumi sing
song from festival. If he didn't care he wouldn't learn this one
and sing it. It was like with third option. Nezumi laughed at it
but still, he wanted to believe it.
He even remember Shion's dream (after drinking scene) about
colorful stones at bottom of lake and he is somehow sad when he
check it out in Beyond. It was just stupid dream and yet, Nezumi
remember it.
That's why other side of Shion scared Nezumi so much. After what
he gone thought in his live, Nezumi was enchanted by Shion's
kindness, but it turned out that it wasn't so simple and as you
said Shion was only human too.
They win fight in CF but in the end they lose their war, since
they both ended up alone, broken and unhappy.
#Post#: 5747--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random NO6 talks
By: Ahiku Date: September 19, 2015, 1:48 pm
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Okay, other topic... XD But it thrilled me. o_o° I just reread a
part of volume 2, chapter 4 and found this quote:
[quote]In the distant past, I'd said the same thing once. I'd
met a man I cared about more than anyone else, and I never
wanted to lose him. I wished I could be by his side forever.
But they had separated. The only thing he left in her hands was
her newborn baby. 'Shion' was a name that the man had given to
his son. It was his last and only gift to her.[/quote]
So, it was Shion's father who named him and not Karan... (Since
Shion said to Nezumi that his mother likes wildflowers...) I
think he doesn't know that his father gave him his name.
Somehow, I never know how to judge Shion's dad. I mean, even
after 16 years, he called himself like that. He seems to be very
fond of Shion. (Or maybe just about the idea of having a son...
he apparently didn't want to take responsibility for him,
otherwise he would not leave them behind.)
And he made clothes and a cradle for him, so he's not really
like those fathers, who are like. "No, I'm not the father, he's
not my kid, leave me alone, bye."
Fact is...that he's a horrible asshole when it comes to Karan.
<_<° And I really hate him for hurting her so much.
She really loved him and he betrayed her and was such a jerk...
*hugs Karan* ;_;
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