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#Post#: 114--------------------------------------------------
Idle issues...
DIR By: TimR
Date: September 9, 2017, 12:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Whats been the collective wisdom with repeated stalling...?
I know a few people have posted about their bikes falling
below adequate idle speeds and then stalling. Mine is doing it
all the time. A reset at the key is the only thing to get it
started after..until the next time.
Its a pain...!
Im gonna yank the injectors and get them cleaned this winter. I
guess I might also be looking at ISC valve solenoid failure or
some such, right ?
Answers on a postcard...! ???
Grtzzz...
#Post#: 115--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: omeo-mt01
Date: September 10, 2017, 5:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TimR link ---
>
> Whats been the collective wisdom with repeated stalling...?
> I know a few people have posted about their bikes falling
below adequate idle speeds and then stalling. Mine is doing it
all the time. A reset at the key is the only thing to get it
started after..until the next time.
> Its a pain...!
> Im gonna yank the injectors and get them cleaned this winter.
I guess I might also be looking at ISC valve solenoid failure or
some such, right ?
> Answers on a postcard...! ???
> Grtzzz...
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi Tim,
this has presumably happened over time?
Run injector cleaner for a good 2 tanks.
I,d reckon you have to check the basics first, hows the
aircleaner and are the valves ok.
Throttle body balance, can be checked without removing.
#Post#: 116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: TimR
Date: September 10, 2017, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I wouldnt say over time Graeme...It has only just raised it's
ugly head after some 90K kms...but how. It prefers to drop the
revs and stall out more often than not. It runs fine after a
reset (at the key) ...makes me think it's something beyond
carb/fueling issues, although a restart at the key initiates a
fast idle setting until the ECU has sufficient temp sensor data
to allow it to drop onto the ISC valve setting....
I take from your reply you suspect carby/fueling issues...Its
good to know. I will assume this is typically the seat of the
issues, as it did seem to get reported on the forum that was,
quite regularly....
Ill do a sonic clean. If the injectors are crud packed, I cant
see much future in washing it past valves and try burning it...I
mean, where does it go, really ?
Has no one had to replace their ISC valve...? I remember
pricing the valve for Otto many years ago who hoped it might be
cheaper here in the U.K. but must admit, its my only
recollection of the unit and its function...!
Seems strange it has developed overnight pretty much... ???
BTW- Graeme, is a throttle body sync covered in the manual to
your knowledge mate..?
TIA for any help !
TimR :)
#Post#: 117--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: Vishnuisgod
Date: September 10, 2017, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
TPS? Wasnt there a recall on the tps?? for this reason?
At the beginning of every season I run a 1/4 bottle of Naphtha
through the tank. Then I run the tank empty, then refil. I
repeat once more mid season..... Ive been getting a consistent
220km on the highway (at 110-115kph), even 2 up.
BE VERY CAREFUL if you do this. Do not let the fuel naphtha sit
in the tank (its more about the hoses/rubber/plastic that it
contacts.
Its a very powerful chemical that can weaken rbbr after
prolonged exposure.
Naphtha is the main ingredient in the carb/injector cleaner
Seafoam.
ymmv
alan
#Post#: 118--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: Nikk
Date: September 11, 2017, 2:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'd say it was something in the electronics if it gets reset by
a power off (reboot!). TPS, ECU or one of the other sensors
would be my guess.
#Post#: 119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: omeo-mt01
Date: September 11, 2017, 5:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TimR link ---
>
> I wouldnt say over time Graeme...It has only just raised it's
ugly head after some 90K kms...but how. It prefers to drop the
revs and stall out more often than not. It runs fine after a
reset (at the key) ...makes me think it's something beyond
carb/fueling issues, although a restart at the key initiates a
fast idle setting until the ECU has sufficient temp sensor data
to allow it to drop onto the ISC valve setting....
> I take from your reply you suspect carby/fueling issues...Its
good to know. I will assume this is typically the seat of the
issues, as it did seem to get reported on the forum that was,
quite regularly....
> Ill do a sonic clean. If the injectors are crud packed, I cant
see much future in washing it past valves and try burning it...I
mean, where does it go, really ?
> Has no one had to replace their ISC valve...? I remember
pricing the valve for Otto many years ago who hoped it might be
cheaper here in the U.K. but must admit, its my only
recollection of the unit and its function...!
> Seems strange it has developed overnight pretty much... ???
> BTW- Graeme, is a throttle body sync covered in the manual to
your knowledge mate..?
> TIA for any help !
> TimR :)
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi Tim, I would think the last likely suspect is the actual isc.
As you say, on restart there is a different setup for a while
and it confuses things.
You could be right about the injector(s) but I would first look
at the balance of throttle bodies and the idle stop screw.
Vac gauges etc are not used for this. Thats a job after the
physical balance is set.
The idle stop screw (the untouchable one) is hard to get at
without tank off (or propped up ). Because they dont want you
changing it without great care the end is just a square. If you
do alter it you must take the bike for a run to be sure of
result which is a pain since the tank is off (or propped up)
But I do know that that idle screw take very little change to
make a difference and what you describe is exactly what it does
when its a little too far out.
I made mine so I could adjust it a little from the outside. As
to why it would change. Well that is interesting and I noted
that the screw could "settle" a little just by the throttle
closing(many times) and gradually "hammering" the end of
adjusting screw. If the bike was set at the lower end of the
range in the first place that might be enough to push it into
the stalling area.
Throttle body balance is a tank off job and get access to the
bodies so you can get a feeler gauge down there.
You can see the balance screw between the bodies and what you
need to do is put a spacer (dont screw the idle stop) between
the idle stop screw to open it a tiny bit then use a feeler
gauge to get a neat slide between the butterfly and body. If the
bodies are different adjust the balance screw to make them
right. The oil tank side is the base of course and you are
adjusting the other one to match it. Very small adjust or it
might be perfect anyway.
Of course it could be a sensor or something as Nikk says but I
think you must check these 2 first as they are the most likely.
If you dextrous with hands you can get to the idle stop screw
with a pair of pointy nose pliers or similar and try a small
adjust but I found it too easy to not know how much I had turned
it. From stall to ok is maybe 1/2 to 3/4 turn of screw.
Since I did mine it has idled perfectly every time. I only had
to do it because of fitting 43mm bodies and changing over the
stratoliner cable cam etc which are different to MT.
I,m happy to be wrong but would like to know what you
find-----------------
#Post#: 120--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: TimR
Date: September 12, 2017, 3:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay...thanks for patient reply Graeme..!
Its a job that will likely be left for the over winter period,
as annoying as a bike that keeps dying is, especially when in
traffic.
I simply have too many other pressing projects to get sorted.
It sounds a simple enough process, if a little circuitous and
repetitive what with tank removal and replace. test ,
repeat...What I mean is, I probably want to get at it in one a
time effort. To keep track of myself and changes. For me, it
starts with an injector clean...I guess a tank full of cleaner
may be the go...( yikes!! ??? ) I have run the bike dry a
couple times now. Perfect scenario for pulling crud into the
fuel delivery system, & into unwanted locations, only to become
lodged and grow exponentially...! ::)
I'll try and report back here my findings. You can bet on it
if it turns out to be the ISC itself !!!
Having fettled extensively now with 2T carburation...a 1/2 -
3/4 turn seems alot ! I have understood you say that
anti-clockwise at the idle screw reduces revs...
Of course, being a stage 3 bike, there is no closed loop !
Makes it a little more straightforward, in theory anyway.
cheers :)
#Post#: 121--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: omeo-mt01
Date: September 12, 2017, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TimR link ---
>
>
> Okay...thanks for patient reply Graeme..!
> Its a job that will likely be left for the over winter period,
as annoying as a bike that keeps dying is, especially when in
traffic.
> I simply have too many other pressing projects to get sorted.
It sounds a simple enough process, if a little circuitous and
repetitive what with tank removal and replace. test ,
repeat...What I mean is, I probably want to get at it in one a
time effort. To keep track of myself and changes. For me, it
starts with an injector clean...I guess a tank full of cleaner
may be the go...( yikes!! ??? ) I have run the bike dry a
couple times now. Perfect scenario for pulling crud into the
fuel delivery system, & into unwanted locations, only to become
lodged and grow exponentially...! ::)
> I'll try and report back here my findings. You can bet on it
if it turns out to be the ISC itself !!!
> Having fettled extensively now with 2T carburation...a 1/2 -
3/4 turn seems alot ! I have understood you say that
anti-clockwise at the idle screw reduces revs...
>
>
> Of course, being a stage 3 bike, there is no closed loop !
Makes it a little more straightforward, in theory anyway.
>
> cheers :)
>
--- End Quote ---
Well yes, make a whole job of it. Terrific option. Removing the
injectors and bodies is ridiculously easy once you get in there.
That gives the much better option of having the bodies in your
hand and the perfect situation to do the physical balance.
A chance also to check hoses, a split is always possible.
You might like to try this as a cross check when you do. Look
through the bodies with strong light behind.
Of course, in Australia we use the sun but you may have to use a
light, ;D
With the butterflies just slightly open you get a spot on idea
of equalness between them.
Yes, the idle screw is in for faster. Its a fine thread so that
1/2 turn aint much in/out movement.
And yes, the s3 means the possibility of 02 sensor problem is
gone.
In the meanwhile could you take the slack out of the throttle
cable to stop it stalling?
This just occured to me also. You have a stage 3 so you have a
breather filter on top of the hose that draws the air into the
ISC, its not blocked or anything?. Limiting that will affect
idle, remember Otto saying that squeezing this tube would make a
slow idle ( for those that wanted it.) It does.
#Post#: 132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: TimR
Date: September 26, 2017, 7:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thats interesting ( to me, anyway!)
It seems the situation reached some sort of "tipping point"
with respect the idle issue. It was fine until it wasn't...
The intake side was pretty nasty ( I dont like having to admit
it... ) but after a thorough clean out, she seems fine...
Id be out there now, ragging a tank of juice through her to get
the injector cleaner's work done too but its started raining.
Might be counting my chickens but I think it was simply dirt.
Dirt mixed with warm oil vapour puffed from the breathers
through a saturated filter pod and catch tray...Glad I use
PreCharge filters socks now !!
;D
#Post#: 134--------------------------------------------------
Re: Idle issues...
DIR By: omeo-mt01
Date: September 27, 2017, 4:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Tim, hey, good news indeed, enjoy the riding :)
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