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#Post#: 4679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: Mikegov Date: September 18, 2019, 6:46 am
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Shawn Baker has set multiple world records for static rowing so
low energy is not a problem for him.
It's easy to be dismissve of diets based on perceptions that are
wrong - we are all different. If you can find a diet that cures
illness, makes you feel or perform better then crack on.
#Post#: 4680--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: doc Date: September 18, 2019, 7:02 am
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[quote author=Mikegov link=topic=175.msg4679#msg4679
date=1568807213]
Shawn Baker has set multiple world records for static rowing so
low energy is not a problem for him.
It's easy to be dismissve of diets based on perceptions that are
wrong - we are all different. If you can find a diet that cures
illness, makes you feel or perform better then crack on.
[/quote]
If you eat enough protein you won't have low energy . I have
listened to some of his interviews .
#Post#: 4685--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: Dr Z Date: September 18, 2019, 8:18 am
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[quote author=King Redd link=topic=175.msg4667#msg4667
date=1568795108]
How long have you been on a keto diet?
[/quote]
Since 18th April, so that's pretty much 5 months to the day. 6st
7lbs down, originally the plan was to go back to a more
conventional diet as soon as the diabetes was reversed, but
wasnt quite expecting to do it within 3 months.
Of course I am aware that losing that amount of weight via any
strategy would have had a similar effect on the T2D. All those
people reversing their Diabetes with higher carb approaches must
be shy, or just humble, as they don't tend to shout about it so
much.
#Post#: 4687--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: doc Date: September 18, 2019, 10:28 am
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[quote author=Zoidberg MD link=topic=175.msg4685#msg4685
date=1568812714]
[quote author=King Redd link=topic=175.msg4667#msg4667
date=1568795108]
How long have you been on a keto diet?
[/quote]
Since 18th April, so that's pretty much 5 months to the day. 6st
7lbs down, originally the plan was to go back to a more
conventional diet as soon as the diabetes was reversed, but
wasnt quite expecting to do it within 3 months.
Of course I am aware that losing that amount of weight via any
strategy would have had a similar effect on the T2D. All those
people reversing their Diabetes with higher carb approaches must
be shy, or just humble, as they don't tend to shout about it so
much.
[/quote]
To be honest DRZ , I have read studies where people reversed
diabetes with a normal diet , it was the calorie reduction and
weight loss that seemed to be the correlating factor . Although
would never call these higher carb approaches unless
protein/fats where sacrificed but this wouldnt be optimal either
imo.
#Post#: 4696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: Dr Z Date: September 18, 2019, 12:28 pm
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I think the reason it worked for me, and other zealots, is the
ease of adherence, which in my opinion, is the most important
aspect of any diet ... you could have the perfect diet
nutritionally, but if the client struggles to adhere, it becomes
worthless.
Things like hunger and energy highs and lows just went out of
the window for me, whereas a few days of carbs again, I find all
that comes back again.
Its great to see Diabetes UK are buying into the zealotry too.
The more people that can be tricked into thinking they have
reversed their illness with keto (even though WE know it wasn't
the Keto, right? ;) ) ..the better!
HTML https://www.diabetes.co.uk/keto/
Also, you have to remenber that indeed, while drastic weight
loss by any mechanism will remove fat from around the pancreas
give a chance for beta cells to reboot, the direct effect of a
keto diet on "real time" blood sugar is not to be sniffed at
ether.
#Post#: 4706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: doc Date: September 19, 2019, 3:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Zoidberg MD link=topic=175.msg4696#msg4696
date=1568827715]
I think the reason it worked for me, and other zealots, is the
ease of adherence, which in my opinion, is the most important
aspect of any diet ... you could have the perfect diet
nutritionally, but if the client struggles to adhere, it becomes
worthless.
Things like hunger and energy highs and lows just went out of
the window for me, whereas a few days of carbs again, I find all
that comes back again.
Its great to see Diabetes UK are buying into the zealotry too.
The more people that can be tricked into thinking they have
reversed their illness with keto (even though WE know it wasn't
the Keto, right? ;) ) ..the better!
HTML https://www.diabetes.co.uk/keto/
Also, you have to remember that indeed, while drastic weight
loss by any mechanism will remove fat from around the pancreas
give a chance for beta cells to reboot, the direct effect of a
keto diet on "real time" blood sugar is not to be sniffed at
ether.
[/quote]
Keto is a good strategy for health if your over weight , but it
can also be achieved with low carbs, later stages of a contest
diet ill be deep into ketosis with 100-150grams of carbs per day
, overconsumption of protein will pull you out of ketosis , the
main thing they have in common is a cal deficit . Even when i've
done a 'keto' diet i've still have a lot of veg and fibre, the
thing that worries me with carnivore is the lack of fibre and
/vits minerals , to completely avoid something thats beneficial
to stay aligned with your diet type is where i would call it
zealotry . Jordan Peterson has problems when he includes veg so
he sticks with what works for him, this is common sense. I
certainly wasn't calling you a zealot .
Carnivore when adhered too strictly isn't much different a
mindset as veganism.
#Post#: 4707--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: Mikegov Date: September 19, 2019, 5:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think we worry about things like fibre because we are
conditioned by dietary guidelines to believe that fibre is good
for us. But when you look at the evidence it may not be the case
- good article on this is
HTML https://davidgillespie.org/4-good-reasons-not-to-add-fibre-to-your-diet/
It's the same thing as keto diets. We have been conditioned for
decades to believe that saturated fat is bad for us and high
levels of cholesterol leads to CVD based on dodgy science. But
this belief is now being challenged strongly and may eventually
gain mainstream acceptance (but I think that is a way off).
Our understanding of nutrition is still limited but is slowly
evolving (to paraphrase the quote, "one funeral at a time").
Mike
#Post#: 4711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: doc Date: September 19, 2019, 9:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mikegov link=topic=175.msg4707#msg4707
date=1568889125]
I think we worry about things like fibre because we are
conditioned by dietary guidelines to believe that fibre is good
for us. But when you look at the evidence it may not be the case
- good article on this is
HTML https://davidgillespie.org/4-good-reasons-not-to-add-fibre-to-your-diet/
It's the same thing as keto diets. We have been conditioned for
decades to believe that saturated fat is bad for us and high
levels of cholesterol leads to CVD based on dodgy science. But
this belief is now being challenged strongly and may eventually
gain mainstream acceptance (but I think that is a way off).
Our understanding of nutrition is still limited but is slowly
evolving (to paraphrase the quote, "one funeral at a time").
Mike
[/quote]I would never knock keto , I dont think its optimal for
bodybuilding ( for me personally at least) but I do believe we
need some fibre .
As with anything on the internet you can find an article that
supports any belief , but the majority of proper studies would
indicate fibre being beneficial. I think you can include
saturated fats and still be healthy, this is overplayed by
vegans. CVD went up as saturated fats went up but we also had
an obesity epidemic at the same time , the common factor was too
many calories.
#Post#: 4712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: Mikegov Date: September 19, 2019, 10:19 am
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But what constitutes a "proper study"? Perhaps I'm being
pedantic but a lot of studies nowadays are very bias; funded by
industries that benefit from the conclusion of the study. How
many of majority of the studies on fibre were funded by people
who benefit from the idea that we need more fibre? Or more
wholegrains? And there were plenty of studies years ago that
proposed to show how bad cholesterol was for us.
There are a lot of factors as to the cause of CVD and to
attribute it to just one is an oversimplification. A very good
(and very long) series of articles on what causes heart disease
can be found written by Dr Malcolm Kendrick - his book is
excellent too.
I think people in general should adopt an n=1 approach to their
health. By all means start with the consensus view on what is
healthy but then start to explore what works best for them - the
"one size fits all" approach to dietary guidelines is ridiculous
at best
Mike
#Post#: 4713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anyone try carnivore?
By: doc Date: September 19, 2019, 10:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mikegov link=topic=175.msg4712#msg4712
date=1568906372]
But what constitutes a "proper study"? Perhaps I'm being
pedantic but a lot of studies nowadays are very bias; funded by
industries that benefit from the conclusion of the study. How
many of majority of the studies on fibre were funded by people
who benefit from the idea that we need more fibre? Or more
wholegrains? And there were plenty of studies years ago that
proposed to show how bad cholesterol was for us.
There are a lot of factors as to the cause of CVD and to
attribute it to just one is an oversimplification. A very good
(and very long) series of articles on what causes heart disease
can be found written by Dr Malcolm Kendrick - his book is
excellent too.
I think people in general should adopt an n=1 approach to their
health. By all means start with the consensus view on what is
healthy but then start to explore what works best for them - the
"one size fits all" approach to dietary guidelines is ridiculous
at best
Mike
[/quote]
a meta analysis would be a good start , these do indicate fibre
being beneficial.
you can find individual studies showing different but these all
have selection bias, so a meta is the most reliable form of
data.
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