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#Post#: 624--------------------------------------------------
Get more steering angle!
By: tungm Date: March 30, 2014, 11:36 am
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This is a post I wrote up a while ago on
HTML http://www.slideny.com/index.php?topic=38.0
"The way to setup a car for drifting is at full lock, you should
be able to floor it without spinning" - Foust (as much as we
hate him, he still drives better than any of us)
Steering angle will help you do this. Here are some tips/tricks
to get more angle on your car.
- Use a spacer on your inner tie rod to the rack. Washers will
work. This give you more room before your rack hits it's bump
stop, giving you more turns lock to lock.
[img width=250
height=179]
HTML http://www.vexmotorsports.com/assets/images/PeakPerformance/pro-and-street-comparison.jpg[/img]
-Shorten the arm of your knuckle: stock on the left, modified
(MA-Motorsports) on the right.
[img width=700
height=464]
HTML http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/JDMFresh/DSC_0288.jpg[/img]
This gives you more angle with the same input of your wheel at
the expense of higher steering effort. Just as an example if you
turned your steering wheel 90* and got 15* of angle at the
wheel, you'd now get 25*. For 240s you'll need longer tie rods,
since the stock ones won't be long enough. There won't be enough
thread contact between the outer and inner tie rods. However
this mod is useful for almost any car (Part Shop MAX sells them
for 240s, Rx7 FC and FD, 300zx, and Skylines) but I don't know
if you'll need longer tie rods for all applications.
[IMG]
HTML http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/Englshmadesimple/knuckles.jpg[/img]
Now for other companies that modify knuckles.
Some japanese company...
[img width=400
height=321]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/GPSports_HyperKnuckle.jpg[/img]
[img width=400
height=266]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/GPSports_HyperKnuckleInstal.jpg[/img]
[img width=480
height=224]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/GPSports_HyperKnuckleLCA.jpg[/img]
[img width=400
height=414]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/GPSports_HyperKnuckleSteer.jpg[/img]
This picture mostly shows that decreasing ackerman or dynamic
toe can SOMETIMES help get you more angle if you do not bottom
out your rack. On certain applications, such as the 240sx, it
will cause you to hit the bumpstop on the LCA later. More
importantly, decreasing ackerman decreases drag on the front end
at full lock. Cause when you're at full lock your wheels are
toe'd out pretty bad. This causing drag which can make you spin
out. If you remove ackerman then that drag is gone and
(depending on your situation) you can stay at full lock easier.
However, it makes parking awkward if you remove too much. The
way to reduce ackerman is to be in line with the knuckle's ball
joint.
[IMG]
HTML http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/Englshmadesimple/ackerman.jpg[/img]
This is for a rear rack mounted car. Front of the car is towards
the top.
Keep in mind if your steering rack is mounted in front of your
front wheels (s2000, FD rx7) things are reversed. Positive
ackerman is outside, but bringing the tie rod end to that line
still reduces ackerman.
[IMG]
HTML http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/Englshmadesimple/ackermanfrontrack.jpg[/img]
Front of the car is the bottom.
Power by max
[img width=500
height=281]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/1209176010_2_FT2084_p1030224.jpg[/img]
IS300 knuckles (very similar to AE86) made by some UK company.
Prolifk or something.
HTML http://www.prolex-uk.com/store/images/parts_steering-knuckle.jpg
Haraguchi knuckles for an RX7 FC.
[img width=640
height=480]
HTML http://www.doadrift.com/files/images/godsknuckles.preview.JPG[/img]
Someone called these HEY MAN knuckles... (could it be related to
our very own Ben Alden? btw get him on here!)
[img width=640
height=426]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/takurou_watanabe_knuckles_004.jpg[/img]
[img width=640
height=426]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/takurou_watanabe_knuckles_003.jpg[/img]
[img width=640
height=426]
HTML http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d103/nigel1983/takurou_watanabe_knuckles_001.jpg[/img]
^these knuckles look VERY similar to mine. But it looks like he
has a ton more castor and maybe grinded out some of his
bumpstop, longer lower control arms and narrow wheels to keep
from hitting the sway bar. Pretty much the extreme case. So it's
not just modify your knuckles and you're done. You need to do a
lot of work to truly use them to their full potential. I don't
really know how he got that much angle.
[img width=639
height=800]
HTML http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/Englshmadesimple/cars/Untitled.jpg[/img]
Here is how he did it. He just cut the knuckle and overlapped
some of the cut (in blue) then welded. Also note the nick on the
sway bar. So at full lock he is hitting his sway bar, meaning
everything else must be clearanced as much as possible. At least
you know what is possible
Car Specific:
-Corolla. Use an AW11 MR2 manual steering rack with power
steering knuckles, and your AE86 inner tie rods. Boom more
angle.
[img width=700
height=525]
HTML http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/Englshmadesimple/ae86/IMG_3299.jpg[/img]
[img width=700
height=525]
HTML http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/Englshmadesimple/ae86/IMG_3342.jpg[/img]
[img width=474
height=320]
HTML http://www.club4ag.com/faq_and_tech_pages/Tech%20Photos/AE-86_steering_arms.jpg[/img]
Power steering vs Manual knuckles. same concept as
cutting/welding your knuckles
*EDIT: Aug 26 09
-To use a AW11 manual rack you need a MKIII supra intermediate
steering shaft. It's a bitch to install, but no cutting/welding.
[img width=700
height=525]
HTML http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r174/Englshmadesimple/ae86/IMG_3353.jpg[/img]
Quafie also makes a replacement quick steering rack. I don't
know much info or price.
I'll keep adding info/detail when I get bored.
#Post#: 626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get more steering angle!
By: oni_jake Date: March 30, 2014, 6:35 pm
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Good information for anyone wanting to know more about steering.
I recommend your post plus reading MotoIQ's suspension guide
HTML http://www.motoiq.com/Tech/TheUltimateGuidetoSuspensionHandeling.aspx
Can't believe you didn't know what HeyMAN! is.
#Post#: 627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get more steering angle!
By: tungm Date: March 30, 2014, 6:38 pm
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still don't really know what HeyMAN! is. Nishida is part of it,
that's about all I know.
Ya motoiq is the jam.
#Post#: 628--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get more steering angle!
By: oni_jake Date: March 31, 2014, 11:29 am
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Hey man, hey hey man!
HTML http://motormavens.com/2010/02/name-dropping-hey-man-hachirokus-at-yokota/
HTML http://youtu.be/zFndHHcJ0r8
Look at Robbie Nishida with the stache! I moved here in 2001 and
left in 2005, but this is a whole other conversation.
#Post#: 629--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get more steering angle!
By: tungm Date: March 31, 2014, 3:46 pm
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spill the details!
#Post#: 639--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get more steering angle!
By: doyouliketurtles Date: April 2, 2014, 1:18 am
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the screw on steering rack spacers will make the most of cut
knuckles. imo, almost not even worth installing cut knuckles
without the extended steering rack spacers
#Post#: 726--------------------------------------------------
Re: Get more steering angle!
By: PoorMans180SX Date: April 18, 2014, 2:51 am
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I have a big long thread on Zilvia about this, it's pretty
popular, hahahha. Feel free to hit me up or post here if you
have any questions.
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