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#Post#: 12--------------------------------------------------
Israel
By: MoniqueB1 Date: March 23, 2012, 6:19 pm
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(sorry about the username, this is both Cameron and Monique)
1.Who has the right to possess the land of Israel and Palestine?
Explain using historical/cultural/political reasoning that
reflect your country's position and beliefs. (Monique)
The right of who possess the land of land of Israel is a simple
one. One could simple read the Torah and find this out, God
promised Abraham and his descendents a land filled with milk and
honey. This land was located in Caaan which is present day
Israel. However if you don`t fully believe that we shall take a
journey through memory lane.
After the Romans destroyed the Second Temple in 70 AD and sent
the Jewish Diaspora across the world, the land was barren and
only few Jews remained. During this time the Romans change the
name Judea to Palestine, to punish the Jews. Palestine in Latin
means the Philistine the ancient enemies of the Israelites. Skip
forward to when the Muslims take over Palestine, Arab herdsmen
begin to settle and become the modern day people called
“Palestinians.”
That’s the history, if we go to 1917 when the Balfour
Declaration is released stating, British support for a Jewish
nation in Palestine. More in 1920 the San Remo Conference, made
up from post World War One nations agreed that, “The Mandatory
will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration
originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government,
and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the
establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish
people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done
which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing
non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political
status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”
Palestine was legally destined to be the home of a Jewish state
even before the holocaust and WW2 when it became a priority. If
we also look into 1948 partition plan, the Arabs would have had
the larger state then the Jewish state. However the Arabs
decided to invade the newly formed Israel, declared to the
Palestinians to leave their land because after they won the war
the Arab nations would drive the Jews into the sea. However this
did not happened as Israel won the war, leaving over half a
million Palestinians displaced as refugees. When it comes down
to the simple fact the land religious, historical and cultural
belongs to the Jews. When the Palestinians lived in the
Palestine it was swamp land and unable to produce food to feed a
nation. When Israel became a nation, that changed and Israel was
the first nation to grow food in the desert. We cannot simply
say the Jews were kicked out and its not fair to kick out
Palestinians to make room for them. The Palestinians had a
choice to share the land, they decided to leave and those that
remained either became Israelis or continued with Israeli
hatred.
2. Should the international community recognize the statehood of
Palestine? Justify your response. (Cameron)
Palestine should not now or ever be recognized as an individual
state due to their unstable political situation, Hamas being
recognized by the international community as a terrorist group,
and finally unwillingness to promote peace with Israel. To
begin, Hamas and Fatah have been in constant turmoil over the
future of Palestine and it's people and this has resulted is
completely different spectrums of leadership, which if brought
together as an individual state could create massive civil
revolt and wars. Moreover, another major reason palestine should
not be recognized as an individual state due to one of their
major political groups being recognized internationally as a
terrorist organization. If Palestine was to be recognized as an
individual this opens endless opportunities for them to expand
their terrorist campaign against democracy, and for the world to
remain successful it must remain somewhat democratic. Finally,
palestine's inability to promote peace with Israel is a sure
sign they should not become an individual state. Due to their
current behavior the world has no reason to believe Palestine
will remain civil with Israel if peace is achieved; thus, for
this reason the world will remain in constant turmoil. In
closing, Palestine should not become an individual state due to
their unstable political situation, Hamas being a well-known
terrorist group, and their inability to promote peace with
Israel.
3.What is your country's position regarding Iran's nuclear
program? How should the program be addressed? (Monique)
When the leader of Iran states on national television that he
will wipe Israel off the face of the earth its a problem. Iran
is not developing a peaceful nuclear energy program, what would
require Iran to have several hundred nuclear reactors plus
enriching weapon graded uranium, something which isn`t needed
for an energy program. Even more importantly Iran has violated
both Article III and Article II of the NPT. The IAEA found Iran
in noncompliance with its NPT safeguards agreement for a
1985–2003 "policy of concealment regarding its efforts to
develop enrichment and reprocessing technologies. The United
States, the IAEA and others consider these technologies to be of
particular concern because they can be used to produce fissile
material for use in nuclear weapons. The world must use harsher
sanctions for example on Iranian oil to pressure Iran on ending
their program. However if the world can not act quickly enough,
military airstrikes against suspected nuclear reactor sites of
weapons development must be hit.
#Post#: 18--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: MvilleIran Date: March 23, 2012, 8:54 pm
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(Responding to the third answer)
Sorry Monique but if you are aiming for a Israeli perspective
for your answers and are using the NPT as an argument, that is
kind of hypocritical considering Israel never signed it. Instead
Israel adopted a policy of deliberate ambiguity and did the
exact same thing they are accusing Iran of doing (doing it all
secretly that is). As well, very recently (within the last few
weeks) Iran has actually opened up to UN inspectors (even
letting them into the very reactor they have all their
suspicions about) and so there is obviously some intention to
comply with the NPT and UN regulations. To be honest, the only
people that will protect Israel and intervene against Iran would
probably be Israel themselves (assuming there IS a nuclear
weapons program but all there is is suspicions and
speculations). Despite its best intentions, the UN is all bark
and no bite. Just look at North Korea. North Korea signed the
NPT yet still blatantly continued a nuclear weapons program.
Despite the attempts of the UN, North Korea just went on
trucking, taunting them with a solid "Well what are you going to
do about it?" Evidently the UN did nothing even though North
Korea has expressed its hatred of America almost as much as Iran
has for Israel. What makes Iran different from North Korea? Ok
maybe the means to deliver the weapon (North Korea has been
lobbing rockets over Japan for years now to no avail) but
despite any little puppet mastery skills Israel somehow possess,
I highly doubt the UN will make a tangible strike against Iran.
The only other option would be a unilateral move by the US much
like Iraq War but with Obama as president, especially so close
to elections, it is unlikely.
-Spencer
#Post#: 25--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Fatah Date: March 23, 2012, 10:26 pm
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In response to the question of who owns the land, this argument
is invalid. If you want to understand the legality of the
Balford declaration, the fact of the matter is that the British
also promised the Arabs that if we fought the Ottoman Empire
during WW1, we would be given the land in return. Therefore, if
you want to be technical about the situation, we also have legal
claim to the land.
Furthermore, with respect to the recognition as a state,
Palestine most definitely deserves to be acknowledged. The
current political situation is that we are attempting a unity
government. Do you realize the level of accomplishment we
achieved for this concept considering the past 25 years? The
leader of our government is currently Mahmoud Abbas, a Fatah
based leader. What is better, 2 factions at one another's
throat? Or a single form of government with simple ideals, the
same as any other nation? We have achieved both internal
relations and international relation. Our recent political
election of Abbas has even been acknowledged as a democratic
movement by the US in recent articles. Furthermore, we qualify
just as much as Israel does to be recognized as a state. As
stated in our post, the 3 defining characteristics of a state
for recognition is a permanent population, defined territory,
and a form of government. We have achieved all 3, as stated in
our post. Overall, there is overwhelming evidence for us to be
acknowledged as a statehood than there is to be rejected.
#Post#: 26--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Fatah Date: March 23, 2012, 10:27 pm
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Previous Post by Andrew Chin and Zack
#Post#: 27--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Zac Fatah Date: March 23, 2012, 10:36 pm
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also i love your point about the decendents of Abraham having
claim over this land. Did you know that we The arabs are also
desended from Abraham through his first son Ishmael?
funny how your own point proves how we should get the land as
well
#Post#: 30--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Hamas Date: March 23, 2012, 11:19 pm
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Palestinians claimed that land to their own when the Jews didn't
occupy the land. They lived there for over 1000 years and
finally you want to come back so you kick them out and say "they
had a chance to share."
'Rightfully' this land is anything but yours. You were weak and
were taken as slaves by Egypt. You were also taken by
Babylonians as prisoners to Mesopotamia. Greeks and Romans also
did something to a similar degree. The few jews that were left
in the land ABANDONED it to find a better life. (Typical
Israelis giving up because they're weak) When Islam was
beginning to spread the Arabs claimed the land.
By what means do you think you can just waltz back in and say
"Abraham promised the land to us, WAH,WAH, we want the land back
after 1,800 years!!!" Is that fair to the Palestinian people?
No. Your false sense of entitlement is what will lead you to
your ultimate downfall.
The Jews have a history of being conquered and history tends to
repeat itself, and since that history has repeated itself
several times, it is safe for one to assume it will happen very
soon and Hamas will gladly oblige.
-Armaan
#Post#: 37--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Devin - Canada Date: March 25, 2012, 5:14 pm
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Zac I think you need to do your homework before posting a reply
Because if you actually took the time to research you would know
that God cast Ishmael and his mother out of the promised land
Sarah asked Abraham to expel Ishmael and his mother, saying:
"Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's
son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."This
proposition was grievous to Abraham due to his great love for
his son Ishmael. Abraham only agreed when God told him that it
was through Isaac that Abraham's offspring would "be reckoned",
and that He would "make Ishmael into a nation" too, since he was
a descendant of Abraham. (Genesis 21:11-13)
God's promise to Abraham was a land of milk and honey
God intended for the Hebrews(Jews) the land of modern day Israel
That is what the chosen people mean, respect my commandments and
I will bless you descendents
Ishmael was not part of that blessing
So the muslims through a biblical sense are not entitled to the
land
To say that they are means ignorance
#Post#: 40--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Hamas Date: March 25, 2012, 6:09 pm
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Devin, your leader of your country is one of the most openly
religious leaders you've had in decades. He is an evangelical
Christian. Why are you backing Israel on matters of which you do
not even believe in? How does anything in the Tanakh influence
you point of view?
#Post#: 41--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Devin - Canada Date: March 25, 2012, 6:19 pm
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I am merely proving Zac wrong because he clearly doesn't know
what he's talking about when it comes to the religion
#Post#: 42--------------------------------------------------
Re: Israel
By: Devin - Canada Date: March 25, 2012, 6:33 pm
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and by the way hamas Evangelical christians are strong
supporters of the Jewish homeland they believe ''God gave the
land to the Jewish people and that Christians have a Biblical
duty to support it and the Jews.''
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