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#Post#: 382--------------------------------------------------
"Boose Tones" double album - discussion
By: tongues Date: May 9, 2022, 4:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I was recently reading the Discography section
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwfqees74rd1iop/Manson%20-%20Book%20Schreck%2C%20Nikolas%20mansonfilediscography2011.pdf?dl=0<br
/>of the 2011 edition of The Manson File (thanks CEddy
HTML https://mansonmafia.createaforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=67<br
/>for sharing!) and noticed entry #100 titled "Boose Tones", a
double album "privately issued in December 2010" featuring 150
minutes of unheard music. I vaguely remembered hearing something
about this long ago, distinctly remembering the unique Altoids
packaging, but was unable to find anything but this 3:35 clip
from the release (which has some sounds layered over it):
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PlCy8czQcw
Does anyone know if these recordings are available online, or at
least physically in circulation/good hands? It would be
detrimental to lose these recordings, assuming they haven't
already been published on "Air", "Trees", or via the
atwaatwar.com audio index
HTML https://atwaatwar.com/audio/
(the quality of recording in the
clip resembles the aforementioned sources).
And, as an aside, could there possibly be enough material on
them for us to create the missing "Water" and "Animals" albums
HTML https://mansonmafia.createaforum.com/the-music/'air'-'trees'-albums-will-'water'-'animals'-come-out/?<br
/>Or - alternatively - could some material on "Boose Tones"
overlap with "Air" and "Trees"? Let me know what you think :)
#Post#: 383--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Boose Tones" double album - discussion
By: CEddy Date: May 9, 2022, 7:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=tongues link=topic=185.msg382#msg382
date=1652088406]
I was recently reading the Discography section
HTML https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwfqees74rd1iop/Manson%20-%20Book%20Schreck%2C%20Nikolas%20mansonfilediscography2011.pdf?dl=0<br
/>of the 2011 edition of The Manson File (thanks CEddy
HTML https://mansonmafia.createaforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=67<br
/>for sharing!) and noticed entry #100 titled "Boose Tones", a
double album "privately issued in December 2010" featuring 150
minutes of unheard music. I vaguely remembered hearing something
about this long ago, distinctly remembering the unique Altoids
packaging, but was unable to find anything but this 3:35 clip
from the release (which has some sounds layered over it):
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PlCy8czQcw
Does anyone know if these recordings are available online, or at
least physically in circulation/good hands? It would be
detrimental to lose these recordings, assuming they haven't
already been published on "Air", "Trees", or via the
atwaatwar.com audio index
HTML https://atwaatwar.com/audio/
(the quality of recording in the
clip resembles the aforementioned sources).
And, as an aside, could there possibly be enough material on
them for us to create the missing "Water" and "Animals" albums
HTML https://mansonmafia.createaforum.com/the-music/'air'-'trees'-albums-will-'water'-'animals'-come-out/?<br
/>Or - alternatively - could some material on "Boose Tones"
overlap with "Air" and "Trees"? Let me know what you think :)
[/quote]
I only just learned about this 2 CDR recording this spring.
Details were unclear, and come from both Nikolas's 2011
discography and a recent 5/8/22 post on the Abraxas Circle
Facebook group, which I'll paste here:
Nikolas Schreck:
It sounds awful because it was recorded on a tiny hidden
wristwatch recording device smuggled into Corcoran in 2010.
Charlie tried to palm it off on me for $150 as an original
recording from Spahn. I laughed and told him I didn't believe
him, if he needed $150 just ask but don't try to con me. I sent
the dough to his account (probably paid off some scumbag
prisoner for who knows what.) I said I didn't need anything in
return, eventually I was sent the Boose Box which I gave as a
gift to a colleague. You're right, Manuel put out some of it in
his LP. - NS
Here's what I understand:
[list]
[li]Per Schreck 2011 Manson File discography: This release
comprises two CD-Rs of previously unreleased material. The first
CD-R contains 77 minutes of music while the second one contains
only 73 minutes of music. These CD-Rs were issued in a limited
edition of about only 20 copies and were sold together with a
small individually painted metal box originally used for
"Altoids" breath mints which contained a handmade "ATWA''-ring.
Also included was a leaflet with "Suggestions for Boose Tone
Service''. "Boose Tones" was privately issued in December
2010.[/li]
[li]This material has not been released in any other form, other
than excerpts featured on the Ad Nauseum Just Fucking Around
LP.[/li]
[li]The majority of the master recording quality is reportedly
atrocious.[/li]
[li]This recording doesn't circulate widely or online - most
likely because of the recording quality.[/li]
[li]The recording has no relation to the "Air" or "Trees"
albums.[/li]
[/list]
#Post#: 387--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Boose Tones" double album - discussion
By: tongues Date: May 10, 2022, 12:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=CEddy link=topic=185.msg383#msg383
date=1652100771]
I only just learned about this 2 CDR recording this spring.
Details were unclear, and come from both Nikolas's 2011
discography and a recent 5/8/22 post on the Abraxas Circle
Facebook group, which I'll paste here:
Nikolas Schreck:
It sounds awful because it was recorded on a tiny hidden
wristwatch recording device smuggled into Corcoran in 2010.
Charlie tried to palm it off on me for $150 as an original
recording from Spahn. I laughed and told him I didn't believe
him, if he needed $150 just ask but don't try to con me. I sent
the dough to his account (probably paid off some scumbag
prisoner for who knows what.) I said I didn't need anything in
return, eventually I was sent the Boose Box which I gave as a
gift to a colleague. You're right, Manuel put out some of it in
his LP. - NS
Here's what I understand:
[list]
[li]Per Schreck 2011 Manson File discography: This release
comprises two CD-Rs of previously unreleased material. The first
CD-R contains 77 minutes of music while the second one contains
only 73 minutes of music. These CD-Rs were issued in a limited
edition of about only 20 copies and were sold together with a
small individually painted metal box originally used for
"Altoids" breath mints which contained a handmade "ATWA''-ring.
Also included was a leaflet with "Suggestions for Boose Tone
Service''. "Boose Tones" was privately issued in December
2010.[/li]
[li]This material has not been released in any other form, other
than excerpts featured on the Ad Nauseum Just Fucking Around
LP.[/li]
[li]The majority of the master recording quality is reportedly
atrocious.[/li]
[li]This recording doesn't circulate widely or online - most
likely because of the recording quality.[/li]
[li]The recording has no relation to the "Air" or "Trees"
albums.[/li]
[/list]
[/quote]
Thanks for sharing that quote from NS! This quote makes it sound
as if the recordings featured on the "Boose Tones" discs were
all recorded on the same device, which is useful to know when
observing audio quality.
My first discovery upon taking a deeper look into "Just Fucking
Around" was that the first 3:30 minutes of Side B are from the
exact same recording as the excerpt in the Spiral Staircase
video (though the audio sounds more balanced on the Spiral
Staircase video - perhaps it is directly from the CDr).
Don't want to get too audio-techy, but I had a look into the
audio spectrogram of the Spiral Staircase excerpt and found that
it has a sharp shelf at 4kHz (very low quality for music) and is
mono. Notably, the recordings on "Air" and the Ancient VVisdom
split share this 4kHz shelf (meaning they are of the same
quality) and are also mono, only varying in volume. Images
demonstrating the audio shelves will be attached to this post -
again, I don't want to overwhelm anyone with confusing images;
these are just for community reference.
If we assume all were recorded via the same device, we have
about 47 minutes of unique audio. However, I wouldn't say they
are all definitely from "Boose Tones" - more clarification is
needed on when the Boose recordings were made (not issued),
since "Air" was released on August 10, 2010.
P.S., "Trees" is 100% from a different source. Just wanted to
add that. Thanks again for providing all that info!
#Post#: 388--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Boose Tones" double album - discussion
By: CEddy Date: May 10, 2022, 8:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=tongues link=topic=185.msg387#msg387
date=1652159120]
[quote author=CEddy link=topic=185.msg383#msg383
date=1652100771]
I only just learned about this 2 CDR recording this spring.
Details were unclear, and come from both Nikolas's 2011
discography and a recent 5/8/22 post on the Abraxas Circle
Facebook group, which I'll paste here:
Nikolas Schreck:
It sounds awful because it was recorded on a tiny hidden
wristwatch recording device smuggled into Corcoran in 2010.
Charlie tried to palm it off on me for $150 as an original
recording from Spahn. I laughed and told him I didn't believe
him, if he needed $150 just ask but don't try to con me. I sent
the dough to his account (probably paid off some scumbag
prisoner for who knows what.) I said I didn't need anything in
return, eventually I was sent the Boose Box which I gave as a
gift to a colleague. You're right, Manuel put out some of it in
his LP. - NS
Here's what I understand:
[list]
[li]Per Schreck 2011 Manson File discography: This release
comprises two CD-Rs of previously unreleased material. The first
CD-R contains 77 minutes of music while the second one contains
only 73 minutes of music. These CD-Rs were issued in a limited
edition of about only 20 copies and were sold together with a
small individually painted metal box originally used for
"Altoids" breath mints which contained a handmade "ATWA''-ring.
Also included was a leaflet with "Suggestions for Boose Tone
Service''. "Boose Tones" was privately issued in December
2010.[/li]
[li]This material has not been released in any other form, other
than excerpts featured on the Ad Nauseum Just Fucking Around
LP.[/li]
[li]The majority of the master recording quality is reportedly
atrocious.[/li]
[li]This recording doesn't circulate widely or online - most
likely because of the recording quality.[/li]
[li]The recording has no relation to the "Air" or "Trees"
albums.[/li]
[/list]
[/quote]
Thanks for sharing that quote from NS! This quote makes it sound
as if the recordings featured on the "Boose Tones" discs were
all recorded on the same device, which is useful to know when
observing audio quality.
My first discovery upon taking a deeper look into "Just Fucking
Around" was that the first 3:30 minutes of Side B are from the
exact same recording as the excerpt in the Spiral Staircase
video (though the audio sounds more balanced on the Spiral
Staircase video - perhaps it is directly from the CDr).
Don't want to get too audio-techy, but I had a look into the
audio spectrogram of the Spiral Staircase excerpt and found that
it has a sharp shelf at 4kHz (very low quality for music) and is
mono. Notably, the recordings on "Air" and the Ancient VVisdom
split share this 4kHz shelf (meaning they are of the same
quality) and are also mono, only varying in volume. Images
demonstrating the audio shelves will be attached to this post -
again, I don't want to overwhelm anyone with confusing images;
these are just for community reference.
If we assume all were recorded via the same device, we have
about 47 minutes of unique audio. However, I wouldn't say they
are all definitely from "Boose Tones" - more clarification is
needed on when the Boose recordings were made (not issued),
since "Air" was released on August 10, 2010.
P.S., "Trees" is 100% from a different source. Just wanted to
add that. Thanks again for providing all that info!
[/quote]
I don’t have an actual copy of the "Just Fucking Around"
vinyl yet - waiting on my order. From the copy on YouTube it
sounds like the version used on the LP was heavily NR’d to
try to compensate for the distortion. I also notice that the
songs selections are quieter and don’t have a lot of sound
pressure, and are probably what was considered the most
salvageable audio from the whole 150 min recording. The Spiral
Staircase video soundtrack is from a different source.
I have seen the sharp shelf you describe at 4kHz (very low
quality for music) on all incarcerated recordings I’ve
inspected, regardless of CD, LP, lossy, lossless source. Likely
due to the limited dynamic range for the small on-board
condenser microphone included in devices intended for voice
dictation. I need to research this and find out the dynamic
range of those devices.
It is possible that the 4k mic shelf is from the device, not the
recording media. So, either a digital watch or cassette
recording would have the same signature. The digital watch was
probably even lower quality than cassette, which might account
for the worse quality.
Both Air and Trees seem to have significant hiss, so I assume
they are tape, not digital recordings. It is hard to sometimes
tell on CM recordings what hiss is coming from the recording
device, and which is generated by the environment - HVAC,
fluorescents, etc.
I’m assuming that Boose Tones is so unknown and elusive
because the source recording is largely unsalvageable for
“release” other than what Ad Nauseam put out. Most
CM recordings are already rough and unforgiving as it is, a
worse recording might be intolerable for most listeners. I also
notice, that like most Bandcamp pages, they didn’t make a
downloadable digital version available to buy or with purchase.
That might be intentional if the LP format helps mask
deficiencies in the recording that a digital file would reveal.
#Post#: 389--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Boose Tones" double album - discussion
By: tongues Date: May 10, 2022, 1:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=CEddy link=topic=185.msg388#msg388
date=1652188925]
I don’t have an actual copy of the "Just Fucking Around" vinyl
yet - waiting on my order. From the copy on YouTube it sounds
like the version used on the LP was heavily NR’d to try to
compensate for the distortion. I also notice that the songs
selections are quieter and don’t have a lot of sound pressure,
and are probably what was considered the most salvageable audio
from the whole 150 min recording. The Spiral Staircase video
soundtrack is from a different source.
I have seen the sharp shelf you describe at 4kHz (very low
quality for music) on all incarcerated recordings I’ve
inspected, regardless of CD, LP, lossy, lossless source. Likely
due to the limited dynamic range for the small on-board
condenser microphone included in devices intended for voice
dictation. I need to research this and find out the dynamic
range of those devices.
It is possible that the 4k mic shelf is from the device, not the
recording media. So, either a digital watch or cassette
recording would have the same signature. The digital watch was
probably even lower quality than cassette, which might account
for the worse quality.
Both Air and Trees seem to have significant hiss, so I assume
they are tape, not digital recordings. It is hard to sometimes
tell on CM recordings what hiss is coming from the recording
device, and which is generated by the environment - HVAC,
fluorescents, etc.
I’m assuming that Boose Tones is so unknown and elusive because
the source recording is largely unsalvageable for “release”
other than what Ad Nauseam put out. Most CM recordings are
already rough and unforgiving as it is, a worse recording might
be intolerable for most listeners. I also notice, that like most
Bandcamp pages, they didn’t make a downloadable digital version
available to buy or with purchase. That might be intentional if
the LP format helps mask deficiencies in the recording that a
digital file would reveal.
[/quote]
Very likely about the possibility of the shelf being from the
device. Additionally, I find it possible that someone may have
tweaked with the recording output before preparing the music for
release due to the extremely sharp cutoff; this goes for most of
the late CM recordings/new releases.
The last 10 songs on the "Commemoration" CD and the first 7
songs from "The Way of the Wolf" are the only significant
outliers to that 4kHz shelf we see on other prison recordings.
There really are so many factors to take into consideration when
thinking about the quality of these recordings -- low dynamic
range from condenser microphones as you said, the bit depth of
the digital recordings vs. transfers of analog sources, and the
actual transfer process itself (as in, whether one took good
care of the media and was careful when digitizing).
I agree with you on significant noise reduction being applied to
"Just Fucking Around". And as for Air/Trees being tape recorded,
I believe Manson himself might've even said on one of the songs
something about "getting this tape to you" but I may be
confusing it with another recording.
I appreciate your keen observations :D Perhaps others will chime
in eventually with some more information/food for thought. I
guess we really don't have a whole lot to work with for now, but
that's okay.
#Post#: 390--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Boose Tones" double album - discussion
By: CEddy Date: May 10, 2022, 1:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=tongues link=topic=185.msg389#msg389
date=1652205956]
Very likely about the possibility of the shelf being from the
device. Additionally, I find it possible that someone may have
tweaked with the recording output before preparing the music for
release due to the extremely sharp cutoff; this goes for most of
the late CM recordings/new releases.
The last 10 songs on the "Commemoration" CD and the first 7
songs from "The Way of the Wolf" are the only significant
outliers to that 4kHz shelf we see on other prison recordings.
There really are so many factors to take into consideration when
thinking about the quality of these recordings -- low dynamic
range from condenser microphones as you said, the bit depth of
the digital recordings vs. transfers of analog sources, and the
actual transfer process itself (as in, whether one took good
care of the media and was careful when digitizing).
I agree with you on significant noise reduction being applied to
"Just Fucking Around". And as for Air/Trees being tape recorded,
I believe Manson himself might've even said on one of the songs
something about "getting this tape to you" but I may be
confusing it with another recording.
I appreciate your keen observations :D Perhaps others will chime
in eventually with some more information/food for thought. I
guess we really don't have a whole lot to work with for now, but
that's okay.
[/quote]
Interesting - I never noticed that about the Commemoration and
Way Of The Wolf recordings with the increased bandwidth.
Funny that you mention the 4k shelf, because I've been staring
at it across recordings for the past few months, and trying to
understand that trend. I would love to know the make and model
that CM recorded with. I assuming the small all-in-one-cassette
recorders with a built in electret condenser mic.
We should start a thread for those and make note of that. I
eventually want to create threads for each major recording, and
notes about all of the associated releases, and which sound the
best and are most complete. Thanks!
#Post#: 483--------------------------------------------------
Re: "Boose Tones" double album - discussion
By: Smaug Date: September 20, 2022, 5:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Wow! Amazing that I just happen to stumble upon this thread!
Tongues, I remember having a conversation in the comments
section on Youtube about this, your Youtube username is/was
'Dupi Died' right? Mine is Jeffrey Alders you might remember me,
we spoke about Boose Tones in the comments section of the
'Musikwerk in Drei Satzen' video you uploaded.
It's amazing to discover this thread, to know people are still
searching and gathering info about this rare piece of music is
awesome, I thought I was the only one. :D
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