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#Post#: 458--------------------------------------------------
Seeking Solace
By: Levi Hahn Date: February 22, 2016, 10:07 pm
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Since you are in the developing section I will be throwing
spoilers everywhere. I think it'll be easier to help if you know
what I want to do.
Synopsis: I'm going to need help with this.
Description: I don't know where to start. I'm not good at
summaries. In this world, monsters and killers roam the land.
Talos, A self proclaimed king, is trying to form a country in a
world without civilization. But that is only one of the many
stories I wish to tell that takes place in my world.
Another is the story of a girl who is seen as a demon and
treated as an outcast. Her memories have been erased, locking
away her dark past.
Another story is of a boy who travels into the mountains in
search of his teacher and father figure, only to find
breadcrumbs leading to a darker secret.
And a story of a boy who's town is completely destroyed. He goes
to fight for Talos in his army to protect his little sister,
only to find out who the boy's real father is.
There are more stories and characters, and all their stories
diverge and separate over and over.
I have spent a long time planning out what will happen in my
stories, but I just can't seem to put it all together. I can
make a story but I'm not very good at telling it.
WARNING: My script may be above PG13. Contains some gore and
mild language. I'm not trying to make it over the top, I'm only
trying to make it realistic. If you really really really want me
to, I'll write a censored version if you purchase me some cookie
dough. But I don't think it'll be that bad in my opinion.
I've been trying to finish the first chapter for months.
These links will take you to Google Drive. Thank you so much for
having a look!
Chapter One: Demon (Unfinished)
HTML https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DKhhatFIfZA4umPwtAZT9Ssji6E_HKQgPwLBFHjVYHQ/edit?usp=sharingThis<br
/>is a bit rushed at the moment.
#Post#: 471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Lumaria Date: February 23, 2016, 12:44 am
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Currently reading
#Post#: 472--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Levi Hahn Date: February 23, 2016, 12:45 am
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Just updated the synopsis a bit.
#Post#: 478--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Crackhead Johny Date: February 23, 2016, 12:26 pm
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Like the nurse says before pulling you spleen our with a rake.
"this may pinch."
[quote author=Leviticus link=topic=58.msg458#msg458
date=1456200431]
The letter entails the information on the whereabouts of
Daedalus, Talos' savior. Reyner takes the letter to a 5 year old
boy by the name Icarus (See what I did there?)
[/quote]
When I read "Daedalus" I cringed, when I got to "5 year old boy"
I though "Oh god, please do not go there.", then you went there,
so yes, I do see what you did there. This is a story that we are
familiar with by early elementary school.
[quote author=Leviticus link=topic=58.msg458#msg458
date=1456200431]
I've been lore building for a long time.
[/quote]You are building your house with other people's bricks.
Avalon? really? Talos? Icarus and Daedalus? cliche' devil? What
you have is not a great bit stolen from an obscure work, it is
dead horses getting flogged yet again combined with classic
names.
"Man2: “Me said they were fresh… when we caught them!”" >
"Man3: “We be hunt’n demons.”..
So Bill Dance and Roland Martin: demon hunters? They brought a
bird in a cage, are they also part time miners?
Well OK, I like the idea of professional fishermen who hunt
demons in their spare time, as I haven't seen that done yet. Hmm
maybe competitive waffle chefs who hunt vampires? Wait no that
other guy had one about a pizza guy who fought zombies; too
close. Back to fishermen!
Man3: “Ha ha… Always a real asshat, you are.”/Man1: “Too
funny! Glad I’m not stuck out here with some dipshits
Asshat? Dipshits? Can we expect a "Fo shizzle my Nizzle" soon?
"Scene: A tail slowly reaches down behind him."
Alien made this big. since then it has been reused too many
times.
"Scene: The bird in the cage starts flying at the small bars,
chirping like crazy."
A dove can flap around in a cage but it cannot fly (size of dove
vs size of cage vs what it takes to fly). Also, doves do not
"chirp". You are confusing doves with the "panicking
sparrow/canary in cage" scenes, that have been beaten into the
ground.
"Scene: A splat of blood lands on the white dove."
/facepalm. How many movies/shows have you seen this symbolism
used in? Normally it would represent the loss of innocence in a
scene like this (this is sledge hammer symbolism here, nothing
subtle about it). You just put it in because you liked the last
bazillion times you saw others do it, didn't you?
"he slashed into a Dire Wolf with horns. "
Lets put horns on it. Putting horns on it always makes it
demonic/in the future, after the apocalypse! Who cares if horns
on a wolf are superfluous (they already have very effective
teeth) and would only get in the way, thus getting horned wolves
selected out?
Nice on going PC and making the alpha female.. screw biology.
and yes I know that in a pack the alpha male and female are the
only ones who usually breed. It is just when people refer to the
"Alpha" it is the bigger stronger male who fights that tends to
get the title.
"Nate and Amber discover that the demon is a girl with horns, a
tail, red eyes, red hair, and sharp teeth."
With Hellraiser in 1987, Clive Barker showed that we didn't have
to keep using the same cliche'd demons. We can make up our own
demons.
"Amber: “Maybe she was sick of the way the world treated
her.”"
What? I don't even.. This cliche line feels REALLY shoehorned.
"Everyone has forgotten about what the world once was 3,000
years ago."
Yep, seen that badly used. Of course this depends on the
complete inexplicable destruction of all knowledge/stored data
and spoken word for 3000 years. Not to mention physical
evidence.
"Scholars of the old days call the first century, the age of
war, the second, age of apocalypses, age of savages."
Wait, is all knowledge for 3000 years lost or not?
"He plans to rally his dead fathers friends in the surrounding
towns and cities to reforge the flames of civilization and
establish law in the lands."
So this guy too knows about the civilizations of the past and
plans to rebuild them? Real selective memory or something?
"Nate and the Demon girl put on a good fight in front of an
ancient building until the ground collapses under their feet. "
The ground breaking away beneath their feet. Man I trot this
cliche out whenever I get the chance. Birthday parties, the DMV,
while sky diving, etc
"They fall in water and Nate decides to save the girl's life."
The "lets save the scary monster that was trying to eat us"
implausible cliche
"Then they are attacked by a beast and the girl ends up
defending Nate."
Then the equally implausible Implausible "the monster that was
trying to kill us, now saves us!" cliche.
If you want to trot out the "lion's paw" please remember the
mouse finds the lion in pain, not trying to actively eat the
mouse.
"She gets a deep cut from the beast, and then she shows her true
powers. Her cut instantly heals, steam bursting out of the
wound."
Please tell me how many times you have seen this used. God, it
even includes the steam.
"She then grows a bone sword out of her body in a burst of blood
and steam."
/facepalm. We are all really really tired of this.
"With it, she kills the beast."
Was there any doubt? She formed blazing sword didn't she? This
is clearly not GoT or Stephen King.
"Amber convinces her to tag along, giving her a new name, home,
and a new life. "
Hey, that horrible monster we were fighting? Lets bring it along
so it can kill us in our sleep!
Hells yeah! I love being slaughtered in my sleep!
Hey, we should name her like a puppy before she kills us
tonight, lets make her slave name 'Fluffy'!
Not bad, but I'd really prefer something more cliche.
"The demon girl now goes by the name Red, as is the color of her
hair, eyes, and skill. "
Of course she does..
"The problem with me, is that I'm a perfectionist. "
“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You
Think It Means..”
I suspect that this also is a line you have heard many times and
so decided to use. Also remember it is a challenge, a dare to
find flaw with one's work.
A perfectionist is incredibly critical of the stuff they do.
They look for any mistake. They knit pick their own stuff. A
perfectionist could not have generated this work.
What you have is insanely generic. This is due to it being a
pile of cliches stolen from all over. The dialog doesn't work
because it has the same feel and is taken from clearly "not
fantasy" shows, at times. Loved when man 3 slipped into
ebonics..
You need to make a universe and story that are yours and not an
amalgam of stuff you saw on TV/crunchyroll over the last 3
weeks. Make characters, not card board cutouts. You need to know
your characters and not just have them spit out the same lines
those characters always spit out (this is not Star Trek).
I know this is brutal but hopefully it helps.
Put a little styptic on your wounds and get back to editing.
#Post#: 487--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Levi Hahn Date: February 23, 2016, 9:38 pm
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You're right about being brutal. Lol Also, I think you
misunderstood me. The description was to tell you what happens,
not how or why. I plan to put Nate and Red into a position where
they have to help eachother, and I plan to show Nate feeling
sorry for her. And about her regen, how the hell else is it
supposed to look scientifically??? oh well, whatever. And I
wanted her hair and eyes to be red because I said so. lol what's
wrong with that? And she is not a demon. What's wrong with
liking the idea of a Phoenix Character having red eyes and hair?
I thought people would find it symbolic or cool. It feels like
anything can be seen as cliche. Does it come with the amount of
stories in the world? Or does it come from getting older? Or
perhaps my opinion is dumb.
Also, I've never seen the old star trek and I've never played
much of Final Fantasy. I didn't even realize anything was a
cliche until you said something.
Maybe I'm just a bad writer. For a moment, after reading your
review, I genuinely thought I should give up trying. I've wrote
18 different version of chapter one over the past 7 months and I
was never satisfied with any of them. Do you think I'm a bad
writer? So far all you've seen are random, unorganized scribbles
of events I want to happen. That and a really rushed script. I
don't know, maybe I am a bad writer, maybe I should give up. But
I really like my ideas. My story ideas are the only things I
actually feel confident about. Well, I did feel confident.
I'm really wondering if you think I'm a bad writer. I think your
post helped, barely. It definitely was not encouraging. It was a
little insulting actually. But I do understand that my latest
script was horribly rushed. Although I feel like my overall
ideas were spat on, maybe even my personality was spat on too.
Tell me what you really think, what do you think I should do?
Annnnnd since you think this is a story you've seen before, what
do you think is going to happen?
#Post#: 489--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Crackhead Johny Date: February 24, 2016, 12:50 pm
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[quote author=Leviticus link=topic=58.msg487#msg487
date=1456285129]
I plan to put Nate and Red into a position where they have to
help each other, and I plan to show Nate feeling sorry for her.
And about her regen, how the hell else is it supposed to look
scientifically??? oh well, whatever. [/quote]
Why does the guy who kills for a living, feel sorry for the
being that kills better than he does? We have seen this done
many times and usually the author does it as a balancing issue.
"Well it is only fair if they have a weakness". This is
bargaining on the part of the writer. The killing machine has no
friends/is alone, awwww.
As for the regen. Regen used to just have the wounds close or
vanish.
Once it came to scientific explanation it was concluded that
nanotech or whatever it took to close a wound that fast would
generate a lot of heat. Hence the steam. This then ignores what
that heat would do to the cells in the area.
If it is closed by magic it is closed by magic and can simply
vanish or whatever it wants to do. Just as long as the magic is
consistent with the universe.
[quote]And I wanted her hair and eyes to be red because I said
so. lol what's wrong with that?[/quote]
Return of the hot redhead.
Also please stop with the "lol". You may be young but there is
no need to advertise. Also the psychological diffusion mechanics
of "lol" are ignored by myself and others. Those simple Jedi
mind tricks do not work on us.
[quote]And she is not a demon. What's wrong with liking the
idea of a Phoenix Character having red eyes and hair? I thought
people would find it symbolic or cool.[/quote] Look into the
X-men's Phoenix or as Wolverine called her in her Jean Grey
days, "Red". This is decades old and insanely famous.
[quote]It feels like anything can be seen as cliche. Does it
come with the amount of stories in the world? Or does it come
from getting older? Or perhaps my opinion is dumb.[/quote]
cli·ché
klēˈSHā/
noun
noun: cliché; plural noun: clichés; noun: cliche; plural noun:
cliches
1.
a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of
original thought.
Being older gives more experience but less chance at thought due
to the brain losing plasticity as it ages (most people feel
about things rather than think about things, so thought is hard
to come by to begin with).
With that experience you can see how many time others have done
exactly that same thing. The big thing that creates cliche is "a
lack of original thought", You see this in Hollywood where show
writers simply imitate what they have seen.
Consider the last several years where the "terrible leader" is
popular. You see it in shows like Walking Dead and Falling Skies
where the leader is ready at any minute to yell something like
"Muh boy!" and then sell out his group or species, This guy is a
"good leader" only because the writers just have the rest of the
characters talk about what a good leader he is even though his
actions tend to make him the worst leader imaginable.
Instead of one show failing in this way you have writers copying
other writers and thus many shows fail this way.
"It feels like anything can be seen as cliche.". Nope, there is
fresh stuff but it takes work/luck.
You will see people who like to copy say "well there are only 7
original plots so everything is cliche so my stuff is good.",
this is just their ego/narcissism/laziness justifying their
actions.
[quote]Also, I've never seen the old star trek and I've never
played much of Final Fantasy. I didn't even realize anything was
a cliche until you said something. [/quote] Old Star Trek did
some amazing things for its time. But its time was a bazillion
years ago.
ST Next Gen was abysmal with cardboard cut out characters,
cliche'd writing, and no consistency or thought. Unfortunately
once you have infinite energy and can make anything you want
with a replicator, your writing world is a minefield where you
tend to blow yourself up with stupid a lot. It should also be
noted that during the run of STNG they put an ad in Locus
admitting they were out of ideas and looking for writers, you
can watch the credits and see that from there on out they didn't
actually pick much in the way of new writers and just went on
with their "no new ideas".
When I ask a ST fan why they like it, the answer was that they
found the cardboard cutouts to be comforting and consistency was
not needed as they liked to view each ep as its own stand alone
experience. So what they were looking for was The Twilight
Zone/Outer Limits in space.
After Next Gen, DS9 came around which was the best of ST because
it was feeding of JMS's B5 (JMS's pitch was actually completely
stolen for the DS9 pilot). DS9 was the best because it was
actually stealing from a quality show.
After that was Voyager which was Gilligan's island in space. The
Captain was Gilligan. Needless to say this was a crime against
all writing.
Then there was Enterprise. This show was like drinking sewage
from a fire hose.
[quote]Maybe I'm just a bad writer. [/quote]It is to early to
tell.
It is like saying you are a bad boxer or body builder on your
first day in the gym. There are years of blood, sweat, and tears
ahead of you. Maybe you will be great, maybe you will be like
the rest of us.
[quote]For a moment, after reading your review, I genuinely
thought I should give up trying. [/quote] Very few people are
amazing on their first trip to the gym.
My first "real" writing was a short with a guy escaping an
exploding ship to show my mom (a professional author) how a
story should start. I was in 6th grade and it was needless to
say, not good.
[quote]I've wrote 18 different version of chapter one over the
past 7 months and I was never satisfied with any of
them.[/quote]
[quote] So far all you've seen are random, unorganized scribbles
of events I want to happen. [/quote]
[quote]That and a really rushed script.[/quote]
These conflict and thus come off as defensive. Don't sweat it.
If your work gets shredded into thin enough strips you may be
able to weave a really nice story out of it.
Also the writing is the easy part. The endless passes of editing
where you keep correcting mistakes and polishing things is where
the real work comes in.
[quote] Tell me what you really think, what do you think I
should do?[/quote] Think of this as boxing. You just got knocked
down by a kid who is smaller and younger than you. So you get
up, the coach tells you what you did wrong, then you go back in
and the kid knocks you down again. You are going to get knocked
down a lot. You are going to get back up a lot. The coach will
keep telling you what went wrong and to get back in there.
Years from now when you are surveying a new martial arts school
and swelling up the lead student's head like a tomato, while he
can't even touch you, you may, just may, remember how long it
took to get to that point.
As you do not have much experience start watching things from
the "OK what are they doing wrong?" view point and not the "Oh
man is this cool!" viewpoint. Learning to spot other's mistakes
can help you spot your own. You can also keep a notebook to
write down what went wrong and then take it in a whole new
direction in your work. Cliche's that do not play out like
cliches are seen as clever and fresh. Sharpen your claws and
shred others stuff, simply to get better at shredding your own
stuff.
Last night I watched an episode of Crossing Lines on Netflix. In
the episode they trotted out the standard big bank caper with a
ton of people and hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment
and man power. This was to get to the old sewers below the
vault so they could use it to get to the prison a few blocks
away (hey look this time they are getting out through the sewers
that are not actually under banks, rather than in through them!)
and free a friend then go another block or two and get up to the
street and get away unnoticed. What horrible mistakes did they
make?
How many years at 12 hours a day of anime do you have to watch
to get a good grasp on cliches? WARNING: this will reduce anime
to "just another medium" in your eyes.
OMG the DBZ Sayans are just knockoffs of Locke The Superman!
(Locke/Superman.. how is that for faux clever reference?
Blech.). Then there is all the real world knowledge. Then there
is the life experience. Then there is..
The thing about sites like this is you can get this from others
who can say "People only work like that in badly written movies"
or "Yeah, that is a dead horse, stop beating it.". Then there is
stuff like "the dialog feels wooden, does X work for your
character?".
Learning from your own mistakes is a sucker's game, learning
from other's mistakes is where you make the money. Basically
this is a place to make things easier if emotionally
uncomfortable during the process. The end goal is a better
product.
If you want a site where people will just pat you on the back no
matter what you write, Manga Raiders is all about that. I think
this site was set up because people wanted their writing to go
beyond 2 6 year olds smashing their action figures together and
arguing about who would win.
[quote]Annnnnd since you think this is a story you've seen
before, what do you think is going to happen?
[/quote]With cliche there are so many places it could go that
others have gone before. There could be a romance with Red, Red
could sacrifice themselves, or both! Red could go on as a
baddest man alive, with the other characters being a worship
engine that is only there to help show the audience how awesome
Red is.
If you were Stephen King you would set Red up for any of these
and just kill them off. GoT does the same thing and it is
refreshing. The thing about killing off characters left and
right is that threatening situations are actually threatening as
the audience doesn't know that the main character will make it
out just fine like always. The draw back it that you have to
kill off characters you have developed and gotten to know.
Or you could go full soap opera! "OMG, Red is Nate's
transvestite twin who everyone though was dead but was actually
in a coma, in zombie Hitler's secret reality TV show
studio/lab/secret prison!"
#Post#: 496--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Lumaria Date: February 25, 2016, 2:15 am
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I always recommend to focus on one story with one theme and wait
until you finish the first one before deciding if the world you
create is accessible.
Now Talos trying to create a country in a world without
civilization Sounds very reminiscent of Elders Scroll of Talos
uniting the nations into one Empire.
I highly recommend breaking your ideas down and looking at which
are the most important a and which aren't. Once you do and see
which ones counteract then you can decide what to focus on more.
Honestly writing is about a lot of things but if you can choose
the right themes, and choose which ones to focus on the most,
and figure out how you will present it to your readers, then
things suddenly start making more sense.
I recommend posting your chapters here rather than Google docs.
Its a pain to really handle, and writing isn't to the point of
having to fear plagiarism.
#Post#: 497--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Levi Hahn Date: February 25, 2016, 6:36 am
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[quote author=Crackhead Johny link=topic=58.msg489#msg489
date=1456339851]
Also please stop with the "lol". You may be young but there is
no need to advertise. Also the psychological diffusion mechanics
of "lol" are ignored by myself and others. Those simple Jedi
mind tricks do not work on us.
[/quote] Geez... I find you very insulting. I'm not saying "lol"
to appease you or whatever it is you think i'm trying to
advertise. I say it whenever I find something funny.
And this isn't my "first time to the gym" I've been trying to
make this story for months. There isn't any romance with Red, no
one sacrifices themselves, and she doesn't go on to be "the
baddest character". She finds out what her real name is, makes a
name change. After a while she'll become a leader and find a
sort of family of her own. Her goal is to earn the respect of
people.
Also, I wasn't trying to reference Elder Scrolls. The reason I
named him Talos was because I wanted to secretly have his body
be replaced by mechanical parts. In greek mythology, Talos was a
man made out of bronze. It's whatever though, I think I'm just
going to quit. If I ever pick it up again, I'll start everything
all over.
#Post#: 499--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Lumaria Date: February 25, 2016, 11:52 am
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WELL I didn't even get the chance tobhelp you rework it. Or see
what you can do to fix it.
What kind of story do you want to make?
#Post#: 504--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seeking Solace
By: Crackhead Johny Date: February 26, 2016, 1:12 pm
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[quote author=Leviticus link=topic=58.msg497#msg497
date=1456403780]
Geez... I find you very insulting. I'm not saying "lol" to
appease you or whatever it is you think i'm trying to advertise.
I say it whenever I find something funny.
[/quote]
The regular use of "lol" and "j/k" generally profiles out to be
a young male with an ego and no self confidence. Basically they
protect their ego by throwing these things in after their ideas,
as a out, so they can say "I said I was just kidding" when
something they say gets criticized. Think of a Facebook post to
a girl who is out of their league "We should go out. lol, j/k".
They really want her to go out with them but they know she
won't. J/K and LOL make her judging them and finding them
lacking, not as hurtful as they can tell themselves and others
that they didn't really mean it.
Keep this in mind if you need to develop such a character.
This is similar to how using "ur" instead of your or you're,
usually represents a below average young person who texts a lot.
Not always though. It could also be a man in his 50s who wants
to seem cool to young people or a hipster who is doing it to be
"ironic".
Studying people will allow you to generate profiles which can
help make more authentic characters.
I do not recommend taking time off. Get back up and try again.
Also figure out how many words you should be generating in a
month. This came across as very short for "months of work". Try
book format first, then adapt when you find an artist. I think
you will find describing everything helps you feel your world
and characters.
If you are going to take a vacation I recommend a little
reading. Connect your kindle or phone to the local library and
ready all the different colored fairy books (ED. The Red Fairy
Book)as well as East of the Sun, West of the Moon, and the
brothers Grimm. These will give you foundation as to where
things in stories come from. I do not need to mention Greek
stuff since it sounds like you already have some Greek history
under your belt..
Again make your own names. No anime/manga character I can think
of becomes famous wearing someone else's over used name name.
Gilgamesh.. blech!
If you are going to use famous names, use only 1. You may be
able to get by with Ajax as a character but Ajax, Paris, and
Achilles go adventuring is going to get flagged unless it is a
story about the original characters going adventuring.
If you are going to use 1 name do an internet search for it and
see if it is getting used in anything right now. Talos is in the
name of a very popular video game right now (Talos Principle).
My mother once had to change a family name in one of her books,
when her agent pointed out that her family name "Harkoon" was
way to close to the famous "Harkonnen" family name of Dune fame.
It can happen to anyone.
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