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#Post#: 1822--------------------------------------------------
You're Not Real
By: Tara Date: June 15, 2017, 12:23 am
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#Post#: 1826--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: Lumaria Date: June 15, 2017, 7:26 pm
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Read both chapters. Seems interesting concept. But it always
seems like you wrote the most HATABLE characters.
The main character is just not enjoyable or redeemable in
anyway. His friends are just background characters. The things
he does make me hate him instantly. He is a sociopath.
You at least have a stronger idea of what you're doing here.
Unless you suddenly reveal something really crazy and obscure
that completely destroys what you built up.
But I'll save judgement when you finish a story.
#Post#: 1837--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: Lumaria Date: June 19, 2017, 8:42 am
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I don't know if it's a happy coincidence that we have another
character in our story to share a name. As I have a character
named Grayson. You have it as Grayson. Last time is was Lucia
with Lunacy. I passed it off the first time as a coincidence.
But I'm becoming very wary at this point as we are both using
the name as a first name when it's normally a last name.
Onto your story: I do want to stress that I do prefer you
finishing this story because unlike your other stories you don't
have a supernatural fantasy world that you focus too much on
revealing and forget what the most important part of writing,
characters. But if it's not a Mary sue it is the problem in
reverse. You give characters such horrible personalities with no
redeemable qualities.
Now Your characters however are so wrong in so many ways. You
have a tendency to tell us rather than show us. Which is a
problem.
Why should I care about Nicole, Brian or Jeremy? These
characters just don't feel like they have distinct personalities
other than trying to sound as High school as possible. Their
dialogue is either very stiff or very immature.
Like I said you have very HATABLE characters. I always end up
hating your characters and part of the reason why is because you
don't develop them well. You used to show off Mary sue
characters. Characters that has literally no defining flaw they
need to work on and everyone gravitated to them for no reason.
You still tend to do that with your fantasy based stories.
You use a lot of small talk with these characters but nothing
really happens. There's nothing moving the story forward. And
your character Jeremy really feels like he has a mental issue.
He is clearly not all there. Even if the 1% chance of Amerie
being a real person in some way, everything he has done feels
wrong.
And now we have another character who has imaginary friend? How
old are these people? Are they in high school? If so it's
definitely weird and wrong to have imaginary friends.
EDIT:
I also recommend adding in as much detail as possible in the
descriptions and actions these characters do. Even if you know
it's there it doesn't mean much to me if I don't see what is
going on. The simple change in scenery is important. In the end
this script will not be enough for an artist. You will habe to
draw a name or a manuscript for the artist to follow.
#Post#: 1840--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: Lumaria Date: June 19, 2017, 2:05 pm
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Why is she compelling? She acts just like a construct of a
social inept/sociopathic kid would act. Plus she's not the main
character, Jeremy is. So you'll have to do better with character
development.
You're tooting your own horn with Amyrie you fail to see she
isn't the foundation of the story. Jeremy is.
#Post#: 1843--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: Lumaria Date: June 20, 2017, 5:39 am
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Every time I attempt to explain to you what makes a great
character or even just a variable character you completely
ignore ir. I don't know how many times I can repeat myself.
It feels like there's a mental block in your head that refuses
to see other people's view. You can only see your own. The fact
that you make comments like "the customer is always right". For
fiction it's usually subjective, but you lack the basic skills
to create worthy charscters.
The concept is ok. But every character acts and speaks as if
they have a mental disorder. Back from your previous stories
that is the pattern I see. Leaps in logic, no effort for the
characters to understand eachother. Constantly telling but never
showing.
I'm out Tara. These characters are getting worst. This is a
concept where you have only one thing to focus on: Character
development.
#Post#: 1845--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: Lumaria Date: June 20, 2017, 7:54 pm
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[quote author=Tara link=topic=145.msg1844#msg1844
date=1497984254]
You contradicted yourself.
First off you like to define my mental state purely based on my
storytelling. Not sure how many psychologists would recommend
that but it can give you some information. You're arguing that
Storytelling is a skill that I'm not growing in. Because I'm not
growing in this skill I have a mental disorder that would stop
me from growing in all skills. [/quote] Whether you think mental
disorder is synonymous with mental block is debatable, I don't
define either purely by your story telling but how you react to
reviews how little changes you make. And how much you ignore
advice and act like you read it all.
But no. I'm saying you have a mental "block" that stops you from
seeing other people's view. Because you simply don't relate to
the reader or try to understand what the general reader would
want.
The things you associate with character progression is patterns.
And I don't know if you're trying to show off an aspect of
yourself or genuinely believe the reasons you give but you never
give anything in this story. But its clearly not a realistic
method to write characters.
[Quote]Seems like a natural self defense to an argument, you
don't agree with me, so you have a mental disorder, but I think
you should take a look at why you believe this is the only skill
that I don't seem to grow in. A mental state could block me from
growing in this skill, that's true, but that's also true for
everything else, so what sets this apart. I researched how in
art, children rapidly become more skilled over time because the
parts of the brain that handle illustration are developing. A
mental state would hinder any skill.[/quote]
Yes some people excell in certain things despite their
disorders. Not that I'm saying you have one. But you clearly not
well rounded either. So I'm not going to deny that possibility.
What I am saying is you have a mental block between
understanding your readers.
But you don't disagree with minor things in story development.
You know you aren't good and continue the same path. You don't
expand or make it bearable to read. You keep it all the same.
[Quote]
All of the other skills that I have are evidence against that
claim, but I'll take a look at it anyway. You said, Jeremy's a
bad character and all his friends are bad characters. They act
as if they have a mental disorder, no redeeming qualities, so
what did I say? What is the best way to ignore a statement like
that? I guess it would be to just go ahead and post chapter 4,
but instead I said:
"I think the story would be unreadable if not for Amyrie."
Amyrie is "the most compelling thing to me"[/quote]
This makes a comparison to say that Amryie, in concept,
character design, everything, is better than every other
character. If the other characters make the story unreadable,
clearly I must think they're perfect characters. So saying that
she's better than them is not saying much. If you call that
tooting my horn I must be as depressed as Jeremy.[/quote]
Tooting your horn or in other words patting yourself on the back
or accepting victory early. That is what I'm saying. You
acknowledged these characters are not good but you didnt agree
that they are a flaw in your writing. Your opinion is that
without Amyrie the story would be unreadable. Therefore what you
are actually saying is "Amyrie is suppose to outshine the
others".
Yes. I truly believe you are tooting your own horn. You chose a
colorful name. You made her abnormally caring and unrealistic
who is connected to the WORST character to feel any sympatht
for. A character who just has no redeemable qualities, has leaps
in logic and just makes no sense.
[Quote]What I say here is, when I enter the reader's shoes, I
would not be able to keep reading if it wasn't for
Amyrie.[/quote] that's not the readers shoes. What you are
really saying is "I wrote it the way I intended it to be read".
Because if you truly attempted to read it like it was your first
time, not even Amyrie would be a redeeming factor in this
stoty.She does not make the flaws in the story go away and she
does not make these characters better.
[Quote]I'm all for talking down about my work, I'm all for it,
but diagnosing mental disorders in my self, thank you, but no
thank you, my brain is perfectly healthy. I stopped having pride
in this kind of stuff a long time ago. I've said it again and
again, the story is the only thing up for scrutiny here. It
feels like you have a mental block against that fact.
If you're not interested in scrutinizing the only thing up for
scrutiny here, then I have no reason to post the script here.
[/quote]
We've discussed about this problem for how many years? You've
reworked roughly 4 stories. You rebooted half of those twice
until you move onto the next. And you always have the same
flaws. Your characters don't give thought process, they don't
share their values in a natural way. They tell they never show.
They are either the WORST human beings or the World revolves
around them.
Either way you always quick to move from one scene to the next
and you never build a scene give us a proper image. You don't
help your readers visualize.
Sad thing is I've said this countless times. What can I tell
You? I already tried giving you examples but that has proven non
effective. You don't see the value in the revisions or
additions. And you say i habe the mental block?
I'm out then. Unless you are willing to accept the problem and
truly understand Why, then I can't help you. No one can. If you
think you are healthy sane then fine by me, we should've made
progress. We don't have to agree. Look at La Sanctum. I clearly
don't agree with De Angelus in everything BUT De Angelus story
is different. If you're familiar with He'll girl style of story
telling they are seemingly independent stories being told all at
once and eventually converge together. So only on that merit I'm
waiting for the convergence because that's what matters. But I
still push to making that easier for the reader to grasp and
enjoy. I still give criticism.
But you have glaring holes. You don't have the fundamentals. You
push them away. So what can I tell you? You think you have more
experience and more skills to disagree? You don't have to agree
with everything but what you disagree with usually is a giant
problem.
#Post#: 1847--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: Lumaria Date: June 21, 2017, 4:05 am
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[quote author=Tara link=topic=145.msg1846#msg1846
date=1498026969]
The only thing I disagree with are claims against me as a
person. Perhaps if you reviewed the story instead of attacking
me, you might have seen that progress. I admit I used to argue
for the sake of the story because I had pride in it. But I don't
do that anymore.[/quote] And now you don't you only have pride
in yourself. Which means any flaws coming from you can't be
questioned when writing stories.
[Quote]
I think in pictures, I read this script seeing the final copy
and calculating ways to illustrate it. I don't see this as the
text that it is, but you do, and so that's why I don't discredit
everything you say and that's why there is clearly a disconnect
in the way you experience it from the way I experience it. The
things I write about are the things that interest me, so when I
read works from others that are this way, I'm completely
comfortable with it.
And you may not be comfortable with that, and many people may
not be comfortable with that.[/quote]
[Color=orange]This is why you are questioned. As a person. You
do what you are comfortable, you don't change your method. You
admit this causes a disconnect between how you experience the
story and how readers do. And you still do it.[/color]
[Quote] It is a complete lie that I have made no progress at
all. And yes, I can say that with the only credible voice being
myself. For the same reason that I can say that my artwork now
is better than my artwork when I was 3 years old. You have a
right to believe what you want, but I personally don't fancy
believing in lies. I shouldn't have to show you Sentieria
Legends for you to know that. But I'm no Leonardo Da Vinci,
there's still improvements to be made, but improvements have
been made. [/quote] your characters are as bland and tasteless
as they were from Sentiera Legend. They're either Mary Sue or
Anti-Sue. Tell me when have you made a character where the world
doesn't gravitate around them and have both defining redeeming
qualities and flaws that you can see in script form?
I want to clarify that your concepts aren't always bad. Sentiera
as a concept was bad but your flaw has always been mainly your
characters. You don't know what makes a good readable character
worth reading. I'm tired of explaining this.
[Color=yellow]Why I was hopeful at first:[/color] Because you
have a story concept that by description focuses on character
development. All you have to do is focus on the development
itself. The potential in development is there.
[Color=yellow] What is stopping me to read the story: [/color]
Without the fantasy genre for you to give an excuse as to why
you're not giving any development to these characters, your
story should at least have more depth and distinct
personalities. And yet lacks characters even more.
Jeremy is a sociopath. He expects the world to go in his favor
and doesn't recognize his extreme flaws. He doesn't disapoint.
Disappoint implies I have hopes and expectations from Him. I do
not. He is scum.
Amyrie acts just like a figment of a sociopath social inept
person's imagination. She cares for him at an extreme level that
only makes sense as a imaginary girlfriend. Which for that
reason I do not see her as a character just a figment of
someone's imagination. She does EXACTLY what an imaginary friend
does.
But it goes further than that. Imaginary friends are just that
"Imaginary". they are things people create to pass the time or
fill a void. Jeremy does this but at an extreme. Chapter 1 he
calls Amyrie back as if she was real and depends on her as of
she was real.
No...Amyrie does not make the story redeemable. Jeremy is the
worst character. He is a character that I do not enjoy reading.
He does the most extreme actions such as attempting to kill
himself over a girl who doesn't like him and then suddenly his
friends just joke about it as if that's normal. And Jeremy who
discovers it's nor.al for the first time gives me huge red flags
as to what YOU the author passes off as normal.
None of his friends matter they're just excuses to move the
story forward. They all have the same generic tone and so do the
girls. Nichols suddenly gets his number and them tells him he
only likes her as a friend. Nothing works in this story. And
it's not because the concept is flawed. These characters are
just ridiculous.
I'm out.....i don't want to hear excuses as to why you did it
the way you did. I'm tired of repeating myself to you what makes
a good character. You don't listen and do the same process.
#Post#: 1851--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: guest4 Date: June 23, 2017, 2:49 am
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^^^
TL;DR
You had no clue as to the relation between a mental state of
one's mind and the kind of story/message it'll bear . I was
optimistic when you ask for the why . So while I'm writing out
chapters , I also wrote out a post that is a reply to that
inquiry .
So yes , you've squandered the last optimism of mine by being
utterly impatient and posting that . Congratulations ! Talk
about not caring about the fact that we have a working life too
and we can't be on 24/7 .
And me giving you a 'dumb' badge does not only mean that you're
making posts that is too nonsensical that it's not worth
replying to , especially with what I've learnt just by doing so
with you that results in MORE nonsensical posts . It also means
, or tells you to stop posting anymore of that crap and just get
onto your story . All of that useless posting from you could've
been better spent on actually composing more chapters , but you
chose not to . That is a severe case of butthurt . Apparently ,
you've never respond any further to anything that I've offered
the 'dumb' badge , right ? Well it worked , until now .
And for your information , this is not even remotely
constructive at all
HTML http://mangamavericks.createaforum.com/story-gallery/'la-sanctum'-club-(18)/msg1832/#msg1832<br
/>. It's just you waving your pretentious supremacy without even
realizing that one , I'm my own artist to my own story , two ,
it's a legit (If there is ever one that is universal) format
that is considered acceptable to the manga/comic industry , my
local industry whom I've been publishing to is included and
three , this is my profession (storyteller , not writing) , 10+
years and still going , despite still being a part-time work for
me . You couldn't even read the first paragraph of the first
post at all to see that it WAS , IS and HAD a storyboard going
on for it in my head , but I chose to WRITE it out .
If what you've written there was a legit critique and a valid
one and non-offensive , think again . It's an absolute mockery
and intentional degradation to my career (or anybody's) as a
manga/comic artist . Not looking into the future for my story ?
Right back at you and your FNO , arse-hole .
I don't think you'll receive anymore critique from here anymore
, not from the two of us after sheetposting that post out ,
calling us out saying "we're not offering "critique" to you" -
you've already got it - FOUR TIMES on FOUR STORIES ! I
personally don't feel like you're not welcomed here anymore -
I'm already done with your antics . I'd direct you to
Absolutewrite
HTML http://absolutewrite.com/forums/activity.php
and get your
critique there . Truth be told , it's the only few sites where
it's very active , has a section dedicated for stories like
yours and offers ACTUAL critique that is direct and blunt , much
like MangaMavericks , but I'm very sure you're going to get into
the same trouble very soon that you'll run out of forums that
will actually offer you actual critiques , if you know what is
critique to begin with .
Leave at your own will and good luck !
EDIT : If you want a critique for art that actually offers you a
service by 'drawing out the example for you' , go to Conceptart
HTML http://www.conceptart.org/forums/
.
#Post#: 1852--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: Lumaria Date: June 23, 2017, 3:59 am
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What more can I tell you that hasn't been said? I'm tired. I
can't keep explaining to you what makes a good character worth
reading about because I've repeated myself multiple times. Like
Dr Angelus said, we've done 4 stories at this point. And might I
add that if we count every time you pressed the reset button,
it's more than four. I given you more attention to than anyone
else out there. I'm out on reviewing your story. HOWEVER I will
never tell you to give up writing in general. But I can't do
this chapter by chapter review style anymore. At least with you.
I believe you know EXACTLY what we are saying. You recognize
word for word what we have issues with your story. What I notice
however is that you don't acknowledge that the issues we present
are "problems" to be fixed. And I noticed this trend all the way
back to Sentieria.
That's why when I see you make changes, you don't fix the
problem when we tell you what the problem is directly. You make
changes around the issue itself. And when we are adamant that
doesn't work you try again. Sometimes you give in but in those
times you do not fully invest in the change that is necessary.
This isn't a video game. This isn't code. And you donr win any
points when you tell me video game jargon when you are wroting
your stories. In the realm of art and writing you have to make
necessary changes that go against your views for the good of a
better story.
But to push my point even further that you haven't been helping
yourself to make it easier to improve I will say this:
REVIEW:
"You're Not Real" has a main character that is a sociopath. Not
just the textbook definition of it but with all the social
stereotypes of what a sociopath has. He acts normal among
friends but he has twisted thoughts. He doesnt think his life
through and he is aware enough to know he shouldnt be liked yet
has no conscious to do anything about it. He is not enjoyable to
read at all. He is the main character and by what a sociopath
is, does not change. Being a sociopath isn't like a crazy person
where you feel sorry for. They have the capabilities of acting
like decent humans, they just choose not to. Like what Jeremy
has actively been doing in the story.
He has no redeeming qualities. Things that make us empathize or
tolerate him. What are those things? Giving him actual human
traits. But then he wouldn't be a sociopath. He'd just be any
other socially inept human. But wait...this is the same advice I
had given before with Blade Regalia. To give your characters
actual personality and traits of a human? To show off why they
want what they want. Why they feel how they feel?
It's the same advice that never came into fruition because we
were waiting for you to revise chapter 1 of blade regalia. But
you made this. And I'm giving credit where credit is due you
don't have bad concepts. You just very bad at making characters.
You treat them like empty husks that have character personality
A and character personality B but never actually develop a solid
personality with human traits. You only add the stereotypes and
do nothing with it.
The mental block I'm referring to is the block between you and
the reader. You don't understand readers or what readers
generally look for. You write what interests you first. You have
no foundation. You need to look up how to write a story. I
guarantee you that if you wrote down every piece of advise on
how to make good characters over the year and made it into a
book and read it every time you were about to start a story .
But see all this? I've said this before.....ive said this before
Manga Mavericks....my advise isn't a case by case situation.
When I give advise on how to make good characters it applies to
general writing. What I should be saying is study character
development on your own. But I was told to do my best to be
nice.
But I'm out at least on reviewing your story on a chapter by
chapter basis. You can choose to finish this story (which would
be nice) or choose to write something else that interests you. I
may review it once it's finished. But I can't do this chapter by
chapter where nothing gets truly fixed.
#Post#: 1854--------------------------------------------------
Re: You're Not Real
By: guest4 Date: June 23, 2017, 4:36 am
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You know , a sociopath trait as it's own and a main is a trait
for a MAIN ANTAGONIST . By giving the character with an
antagonistic trait the role of a main character , it would make
the ENTIRE story revolves around the point and plot that "It's
perfectly okay to be **** evil !" . Nothing will turn flip it a
light , not even all of that current extra "support" character -
NOTHING . Not even setting as it'll be painted black the moment
it's being introduced , nor the plot as as long there's a main
character/focus , the plot will be mainly driven by that main
character/focus and nor the conflict as it'll automatically be
set to the importance of evil deeds in the good world .
There are cases where a protagonist has
characteristics/personality that are meant for an antagonist but
it's never being a front-line of the portrayal as a base
characteristic/personality and in addition to that , the
characteristics/personality are by default 'not overpowering' .
If what Lumaria meant is true , then it's already a
story-breaking flaw , way more worse than what I've read on
Blade Regalia and FNO , which you said quote "Not worth fixing"
.
I'm still being faithful to HematoLogMeIn's advice and not even
offering my feedback until it's finis- Oh wait , I did wave him
off personally . Bye .
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