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#Post#: 10348--------------------------------------------------
Madness of the mind.
By: Mike Date: February 18, 2015, 2:43 pm
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All around me, in various Christian forums, I see signs of
mental instability from those who take too seriously what they
and others post.
Shall God have them in pity, or in derision?
#Post#: 10349--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Kerry Date: February 18, 2015, 4:07 pm
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=987.msg10348#msg10348
date=1424292195]
All around me, in various Christian forums, I see signs of
mental instability from those who take too seriously what they
and others post.
Shall God have them in pity, or in derision?
[/quote]My advice to people is, yes again I say it, to follow
the Golden Rule.
Take the people who pop up and take themselves too seriously.
It's clear, is it not, that they want others to take them
seriously too? But you tell me, Mike, if they take what others
write seriously? Ha, ha, ha! Yes, it's sad too; but a
simple following the Golden Rule would fix matters pronto.
What about people who take what others post "too seriously"? It
may not be wise for me to comment on this; but here goes.
I've been hurt by others on the internet; and I doubt anyone
could guess what it was that hurt me. People disagreeing with
me doesn't hurt my feelings. Insulting me even doesn't. People
ganging up on me doesn't. If I would like people to like me
and they don't, I'm disappointed but not wounded. I realize not
everyone is going to like me. There would probably be something
wrong with me if everyone liked me.
What does get to me is when someone I believed cared about me
shows that they did not; and I am apt to be slow to draw
conclusions, wanting to cut people as much slack as possible.
People tend to get angry and say things when angry that they
don't mean. If someone is angry, I don't believe a word he
says. My niece when she was young once got mad at me and said
she hated me. I told her I didn't believe her; and we both
burst out laughing.
If someone truly hurt my feelings, the last thing I want to do
is advertise it. Do I need to play the victim to get them to
stop whatever it is they're doing? If so, that person really
doesn't like me -- I'm just manipulating him by making him feel
guilty or look bad in front of other people. He's really my
enemy out to get me in spite of any honeyed words he may use.
But can I read minds? Not that well. Sometimes I could be
imagining things. Perhaps I'm wrong to feel hurt. If someone
didn't mean to hurt me, why make a big deal out of it? One
thing seems certain to me: If the true intention was to wound me
and I ignore the first attempts, they'll keep at it, perhaps
even getting outrageous. If the "soft word" does not turn
away "the wrath," then I start to think maybe malice is at
work.
Realize this, Mike. Often in life, we have been connected to
people we wanted to love us when they didn't. Sometimes it's a
parent. It was his mother for my friend who is now in jail for
murder. He never reached the conclusion she didn't love him.
I know she didn't. I saw her in action. But he was still
desperately wanting her to. His father, a reformed drunk, also
didn't really care that much. For him, life was a continuing
exercise in trying to work out this problem, so he tended to get
involved with people like his parents so he could play the same
role. The saying goes, "It takes two to tango." People are
attracted to situations where they can work out their problems.
Thus abusive men and women who are abused are attracted to one
another.
The rational conclusion to reach is to realize we can love
people and want them to love us back but there is never any
guarantee of that. If someone doesn't love us, the best thing
to do is move on and stop trying to do anything to get approval.
Some people will like you and some people won't. Accept that
for what it is and move on.
People who tend to take things others say too seriously on the
internet could be trying to work things out. Sometimes
that's how they manipulated the mother or father who didn't love
them. You can study people on the internet. I suspect the
people who get angry and throw insults had a mother who caved in
when he threw tantrums. People who get sad and wounded may
have had parents who ignored them unless they were desperately
sad. Most parents have buttons children learn how to push; and
they are teaching the children that pushing this or that button
is how to get what you want. There are even some poor souls
whose parents never gave them any attention unless they were
ill. Sure enough, put those people under stress and they'll
make themselves sick -- they figured if it worked to get
attention from Mommy, it should work now. This does not have
to be at the conscious level.
But back to it takes two to tango. If you have on one side
the people who get emotionally hurt on the internet, you also
have on the other side the people who enjoy needling others.
The variations are limited only by the imagination. In
Christian circles, some people start the needling and keep it up
until the other person dissoves into tears. Then the
perpetrators say, "How unfortunate so-and-so is immature."
In life, many things are not really what they seem on the
surface, and on the internet, perhaps more so. I have a friend
I seldom see anymore; but once she said how her feelings got
hurt easily because she was so sensitive. That was an
astonishing statement to me since she did things that showed me
she was insensitive to what I was feeling. I said, "I don't
think you're sensitive." She was dumbfounded. She was
sensitive to what she was feeling but not that sensitive to what
others were. She got into a discussion once with her husband
(before they divorced) and told him (rightfully too) that he
didn't help clean enough. The solution was she would go visit
someone and he'd clean. He did too. He cleaned the whole
apartment. . . except he forgot the the microwave. She
complained about that and made a big deal about it. She
ignored his feelings, choosing to feel hurt herself because he
hadn't cleaned the microwave. Never mind how hard he had worked
with everything else.
I liked them both; but were they ever a pair! Both of them
wound up living with me separately but briefly; but neither of
them understood me. I didn't fit into the kind of game that
intrigued them. Of course, later they got back together . . .
with disastrous consequences. He wound up going to jail over
what happened; and it still wasn't over. When he got out of
jail, she let him move in again. It seems to be they were
attracted to each other since they were trying to work out a
mutual problem. They went together like a set of
salt-and-pepper shakers.
Why is that so? We are here to try to work out our problems.
The kind of person I'm attracted to tells me something about me.
The kind of interactions I get into says something about me.
At first glance, it makes no sense why people whose feelings can
be easily hurt would go on the internet; but I believe they are
trying to work something out. Can any of us rest -- and find
perpetual peace -- until we work out our inner problems? I
think God is letting us try to work things out.
At the extreme are people who murder their spouses. I think the
man who murders his wife probably in some way loved her and
thought he could make her love him by being violent. The
woman, on her part, probably believed if she allowed him to hit
her and do anything he wanted, he would not abandon her. I
heard a woman say once on a radio call-in show that she was
angry because her violently abusive boyfriend left her. She
felt betrayed. She believed if she allowed him to beat her,
he'd stay with her. In her view of the world, he was immoral to
leave her since she was so permissive. Surely this was
madness. A sane man should realize you can't make your wife
really love her by beating her until she says, "I love you." A
sane woman should know that a man who beats her isn't really
expressing love but trying to beat her until she breaks down and
tells him she loves him. Ah, but the kissing and making up
after the violence seems so sweet. . . . You see, there is
always some pay-off (real or imaginary) for people to keep up
the madness.
Ever met a man who was a drunk and quit drinking? Sometimes
the wife will stay with him all the time he's drinking but then
leave when he stops. Does that make sense? Yes and no. It
makes complete sense if you understand her motivation for
enjoying him being a drunk. Never mind the protestations --
that's part of the game.
#Post#: 10350--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Kerry Date: February 18, 2015, 4:25 pm
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Oh, let me add something. I once considered starting a thread
about mental illness and religion. Take "delusions of
grandeur." Here you have the person who gets caught up in how
magnificent he is in his religion. Put that together with some
hallucinations, and you have the self-proclaimed prophet. My
guess is they might have a mild case of schizophrenia that
isn't serious enough to warrant hospitalizing them.
My theory is that you could take a list of mental disorders and
then show how they manifest in religion. I never got around to
getting a list to see if the theory holds water. Take the
obsessive-compulsive type of personality. I tend to think
some people on forums may have this disorder. Surely you've
spotted them, Mike? Why else would they want to keep repeating
themselves?
Maybe we should get a list of mental disorders and see if my
theory holds water.
#Post#: 10352--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Mike Date: February 18, 2015, 5:46 pm
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Kerry, I think my feelings were just a general 'hit' at
fundamentalism leading to madness.
Nothing more specific than that.
Looking for a 'hat to wear' amongst your reply I'm not sure that
I was able to find one.
This is the one site where fundamentalism is scarce enough for
me to sound out without giving offence.
On reflection maybe the golden rule is a hat that I ought to
wear well, but don't.
#Post#: 10353--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Kerry Date: February 18, 2015, 6:33 pm
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=987.msg10352#msg10352
date=1424303178]
Kerry, I think my feelings were just a general 'hit' at
fundamentalism leading to madness.
Nothing more specific than that.[/quote]
Have you ever asked yourself what attracts some people to
fundamentalism and not others? There may be different reasons
for different people. One type of fundamentalists seems to
enjoy feeling superior in having all the answers. That wanting
all the answers doled out to you by "authorities" can also take
a non-fundamentalist version. I think some people find being
Catholic attractive since you aren't required to think. Don't
get me wrong now, some Catholics surely do think; but some just
seem to enjoy feeling they have all the answers.
[quote]Looking for a 'hat to wear' amongst your reply I'm not
sure that I was able to find one.[/quote]
What grates you a lot? Fundamentalists? If so, then you must
have the opposite half of that problem. Maybe you resist
coming to conclusions, being content to ever learn but never
come to the truth? Some people are dodgers. Maybe you're a
dodger.
[quote]This is the one site where fundamentalism is scarce
enough for me to sound out without giving offence.[/quote]I fear
maybe I've offended them all so they left.
[quote]On reflection maybe the golden rule is a hat that I ought
to wear well, but don't.[/quote]
The person who does not live by the Golden Rule often injures
himself more than he is injuring others. If someone tells me a
lie or steals from me, I can get over that easily enough. The
question is can he get over it? If I did those things to him,
could I get over it? It's ironic the best way to love
ourselves is to obey the Golden Rule.Rule.
#Post#: 10355--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Mike Date: February 19, 2015, 12:46 am
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[quote] Have you ever asked yourself what attracts some people
to fundamentalism and not others?[/quote]
I constantly struggle with the incompatibility of Biblical
fundamentalism with my perception that God must be beyond the
detailed understanding of mortal man (else would he not be God).
[quote] Maybe you resist coming to conclusions, being content to
ever learn but never come to the truth? Some people are
dodgers. Maybe you're a dodger.[/quote]
I don’t consider that coming to terms with my perception of God
makes me a dodger, and since I don’t believe mortal man will
ever have a complete detailed understanding of the mind of God
(else would God no longer be God) I gladly hold up my hands to
never coming to a full knowledge of the ‘mind of God' whilst I
remain mortal.
[quote] The person who does not live by the Golden Rule often
injures himself more than he is injuring others.[/quote]
I’m sure you’re right.
#Post#: 10356--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Kerry Date: February 19, 2015, 11:58 am
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=987.msg10355#msg10355
date=1424328419]
I constantly struggle with the incompatibility of Biblical
fundamentalism with my perception that God must be beyond the
detailed understanding of mortal man (else would he not be
God).[/quote]
Don't you think it is like Eve who wanted to know everything God
knew?
In what way did Adam and Eve become God? They did too. I say
they could imagine things. Now the imagination is a useful
thing if people are ready to use it and don't get carried away.
If you are painting a scene that is not in front of you, you
imagine it and then make a copy of it with paint. Inventors
can also play with ideas about things which don't exist and come
up with inventions and then make them exist. Fixing broken
items also often involves using the imagination. I believe
man was given the potential to have an imagination but wasn't
supposed to use it right off. Using the imagination in the
wrong way can be disastrous. We can imagine things which
aren't true and then act in ways that bring about catastrophes.
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put
bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in
their own sight!
Adam and Eve did not become like God in knowing how to use the
imagination properly by not imagining the impossible about
things they knew nothing about. They did become like God in
being able to imagine things.
Avoiding trying to be on a par with God and knowing it all is
one of the first lessons in the Bible. If people can read the
opening of Genesis and not understand it, alas, I suppose they
are in peril of stumbling at the rest.
I hear various statements about God which astonish me. People
say God knows everything, and they think they understand time
and eternity (which are only ideas men brandish about) so they
suppose God knows every future event as if everything is
preordained. Yes, in their minds, God is tracking the movement
of every electron in every atom in the universe. I don't
suppose there is anything to be known there -- I could be wrong
-- I don't know. And since i don't know it all, who am I to
judge whether God does? Ditto for the people who say the Bible
is 100% true. How could they possibly know that unless they
knew these things independently of the Bible or tested them
somehow? Did they read about Adam and Eve and say, "Yes,
that's right. I was there and I can witness to you that's the
way it happened."
This also leads to a contradiction since the Bible says God
forgets some things.
[quote]I don’t consider that coming to terms with my perception
of God makes me a dodger, and since I don’t believe mortal man
will ever have a complete detailed understanding of the mind of
God (else would God no longer be God) I gladly hold up my hands
to never coming to a full knowledge of the ‘mind of God' whilst
I remain mortal.I’m sure you’re right.[/quote]You are dogmatic
about a few things; and I think you could use logic on those
ideas but won't.
#Post#: 10359--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Mike Date: February 19, 2015, 9:44 pm
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=987.msg10356#msg10356
date=1424368727]
You are dogmatic about a few things; and I think you could use
logic on those ideas but won't.
[/quote]
Well, I've often admitted to being dogmatic about the folly of
being dogmatic about things that we can only "Know in part until
we finally know even as we are known"
#Post#: 10366--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Kerry Date: February 20, 2015, 6:45 pm
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[quote author=Mike link=topic=987.msg10359#msg10359
date=1424403865]
Well, I've often admitted to being dogmatic about the folly of
being dogmatic about things that we can only "Know in part until
we finally know even as we are known"
[/quote]I can think of one topic you seem to be dogmatic about
-- the atonement. There are various ways of looking at that;
and I admit I don't understand them all.
#Post#: 10370--------------------------------------------------
Re: Madness of the mind.
By: Mike Date: February 21, 2015, 12:35 am
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[quote author=Kerry link=topic=987.msg10366#msg10366
date=1424479551]
I can think of one topic you seem to be dogmatic about -- the
atonement. There are various ways of looking at that; and I
admit I don't understand them all.
[/quote]
I thought that might be what you were referring too and I hold
my hands up to that being one of my foundational beliefs.
I guess one has to believe in something, and I cherry pick the
things that seem to string together persuasively.
But all the time acknowledging the 'darkened glass' factor, and
ready to be shown the true light once I "know even as I am
known".
Now there's another two cherry picked beliefs that I find string
together persuasively.
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