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#Post#: 10345--------------------------------------------------
Bread of Life
By: Amadeus Date: February 18, 2015, 10:47 am
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[quote]Jesus himself called the bread, his body, when he broke
it and shared it with the 12 for at the Passover meal.
Was Jesus, the physical man, or his body, or his mind, or his
spirit, or his whole being, or any part thereof, equal to the
Word of God, or did he contain the Word of God, or did he simply
know the Word of God?[quote]
[font=courier]Ask a question and see where it gets me…
LOL[/font]
[quote]Question: Was he already the Bread after his baptism
when he had the conversation with Satan?
Was he the Bread, or was he preparing to become the Bread . . .
not by trying to produce it instantly, but by following every
Word that comes from the Father? First of all, I do not see
the conversation with Satan as "true" in physical terms. If we
want the story as it happened in the physical world, we can
read the Gospel of John which shows Jesus taking his disciples
with him to Cana.[/quote]
[font=courier]The Bread is the good part that God has for us.
When Jesus was born to Mary he had all of the potential that
every man born to woman has but with advantages. One advantage
was all of the Word (or at least access to it) and full access
to (or the fullness of) the Holy Spirit. Jesus never messed up
in his usage of his advantage therefore he never sinned.
Each man born did not have more than a tiny glimmer of hope to
encounter what Jesus had from the start. But, at the start man
also had no sin. Unfortunately, we all have had sinful examples
set before us without the Word available to us. The Word was
already alive in Jesus.
When a person begins to eat the carcase (scripture or some other
source of raw material [flesh of Jesus] provided by God) and to
drink the blood (that which gives Life to the carcase) then and
only then can a person move toward where Jesus was and is.
Jesus was pure and sinless at natural birth with a Life giving
Spirit. The rest of us were pure and sinless at natural birth,
but we lacked the Life giving Spirit. Our spirit was incapable
to producing Life from the carcase.
The example of the Hebrews (Jews) in the wilderness shows us
where the natural man is without proper and real Life:
“Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He
gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth
you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and
giveth life unto the world.” John 6:31-33
What is the “true bread”? Jesus continues:
“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that
cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me
shall never thirst.” John 6:35
People have interpreted much of John 6 and the last supper as
well as some of Paul’s words in the epistles as a basis for
eating a bit of natural bread and drinking a bit of natural
grape juice or wine and call it communion.
I literally consume the dead carcase of Jesus (scripture for
example by reading or studying) and drink his blood (the Holy
Ghost) to quicken (bring it to Life) the carcase within me.
This is the true Bread as opposed that manna eaten in the
wilderness. Too many people today I believe either never eat or
only seldom eat the real carcase and few of those who do have
much of what they do eat quickened within them. If we are born
of God, we must also grow in a God even as a natural child grows
carnally both physically and spiritually.
Some that do grow properly do not always realize how it works. I
believe that that I do, but I know that there are gaps in my
knowledge and likely errors in what I have presented.
Was Jesus already edible? The Word of God has always been edible
whether Jesus was always that Word or not, and whether or not it
was always possible for everyone to eat of it is another
question:
“Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against
thee.” Psalm 119:11
To hide it could be to consume it with his eyes, his mind…his
heart. The Psalmist wrote this long before the birth of Jesus to
Mary in Bethlehem. Is not reading and studying in the right
attitude (Spirit) consuming it and letting it be brought to
Life?
God hasn’t changed and man as a being hasn’t really changed
since he fell in the garden (with individual exceptions?) God
communed directly with man in that garden, but while the
directness of the connection has changed for reasons not
discussed here, the possibility of two-way communication has, I
believe, always existed at least for some.
[/font][quote]John 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in
Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
I'd say the conversation with Satan was true but happened in the
spiritual realm. Jesus had already heard and obeyed the
commandments of first two days. He had obeyed the first when
he was born to Mary. With his baptism, we see the waters
divided and "dry land" emerging from the waters. Or he became
the Rock. And at this time too, he's chatting with Peter
predicting Peter will also become a stone or rock.[/quote]
[font=courier]When it comes to satan I lean [not definite
because there is support to be found for the other side] toward
there being no separate entity outside of man himself. Something
was corruptible in man before that first disobedience man went
ahead and corrupted it and has continued moving in that
direction.
The “dry land” was thirsty. Absolutely dry land will produce
nothing. Water is required for natural life as we know it. The
water of God that makes for spiritual Life I see as the
incorruptible Spirit, the Holy Spirit. This is the Life giving
water Jesus spoke about with the woman at the well.
By the first two days, I suppose you mean the days described in
Genesis 1. I do not disagree with you on this, but I have yet to
sort out all of the events of that chapter and apply them
correctly to all of the events described elsewhere in scripture
and in the lives of men.
Peter is to become a stone or rock, but should not we also?
Could not Peter himself in this be a type or shadow of what God
has in His plan for every man who moves along God’s Way?
[/font]
[quote]Along comes the Devil to tempt him. "If you are who you
say you are, why wait? Why not produce what you want right
now?" Jesus' response suggests to me that he was going to
"make bread" the lawful way. First the wheat must grow, then be
harvested, ground into fine flour and after all yeast was
removed baked. [/quote]
[font=courier]Jesus is into God’s plan wholly even if he himself
cannot or will not reveal the whole thing. Man in his ways
(satan) presents his own selfish version. [Perhaps my version
presented here is similarly in some ways selfish filled some of
the imitation or false manna like that of the Jews in the
wilderness.]
[/font][quote]Elsewhere this "flour" or "bread" is referred to
as "virtue." Miracles are performed using it. The person who
makes this connection to Heaven and who begins to produce flour
or bread can waste it. It can be dangerous to perform too many
miracles. It is lawful to give "bread" to others at this stage;
but one should be careful not to waste it on "the dogs" by
performing miracles that don't further the Kingdom, that only
impress people for the wrong reasons. If one wastes this
"virtue" at this stage, he may find himself regretting it later
when the time comes for him to complete his task by removing all
yeast, forming the loaf to be baked. He may not be able to form
his own spiritual body correctly.[/quote]
[font=courier] I agree with your above statement, but add the
possibility that some have only the false bread or at least in
part the false bread that I already mentioned.
[/font][quote]I am of the opinion that there are some gifted
Christian ministers who made it to this stage -- past the
appearing of the Light, past the Baptism, and to the point where
they began to produce some wheat. Some of them go into the
ministry and make a racket out of it, succumbing to the wiles of
the Devil. Yes, yes, they were or are ministers of God but
under an edict, just as Saul was. Some may even retain the
gifts. After all, it is written the gifts of God are without
repentance. If we are given a gift and then abuse it, it
seems God allows it at times. But at the end of the day, it
would have been better for such men never to have had such
gifts. When we take something meant to be used for the good
and convert it to something used for our own advantage, we knew
what we're doing when we did it, and we will be held accountable
-- but over time, we may forget what we're doing. We may lie to
ourselves so convincingly, we can't extricate ourselves from the
abuse of God's gifts since we've talked ourselves into thinking
we're doing God's work.[/quote]
[font=courier]“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put
bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” Isaiah 5:20
[/font]
[quote]Over time however, the person who does this seems to
undermine himself. His conscience, though seared, may still be
operating enough that it wishes to end the misery. Here we have
Pharaoh who chose death in the sea, Saul who did some irrational
things and Judas. But I digress.[/quote]
[font=courier]It is very hard if not impossible to get back on
the right track after once getting off of it. God is certainly
merciful, but He does know the difference between acts done out
of ignorance and acts done for some know selfish reason and is
completely fair in how He handles it.
[/font]
[quote]I compare the life of Jesus to Genesis 1 step by step.
Jesus did things step by step. The grain of wheat being sowed
applied to him. It is true that he portrayed himself as the
Sower, but where did he get the grains he sowed? I say he got
them by following Genesis 1, step by step; and when he found he
had extra wheat, he could afford to sow them among men and still
have enough "virture" or "wheat" to make his spiritual body.
[/quote]
[font=courier]While I have long seen in the creation week of
Genesis as a small view of, or an outline of, the greater
picture, I never thought to deal with it as it pertains to Jesus
alone. I appreciate your what you have shared on this. Of
course, I will likely delve into it some more myself.
[/font]
[quote]The "first grain" however was Heavenly. The Bread that
comes down from Heaven is made from that sort of Heavenly wheat.
Tares are sown by the Enemy. Even if someone repents and
is baptized, he can go wrong if the tares triumph over the
wheat.
To equate Jesus with the Bread without realizing we are also to
help make the Bread missed a point. When Jesus sows a grain of
wheat, he expects back more than that one grain.[/quote]
[font=courier]The Bread we make is to be within us and to be
shared with others as Jesus broke up a very little bit and fed a
multitude. The tares are also made within us from our sources
other than God… or perhaps better described as perverting thing
that originally were from God.
The tares will triumph if we consume more garbage than we do of
good nourishing food. Let us watch carefully what we eat and
drink.
[/font]
[quote]Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good
ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which
also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold,
some sixty, some thirty.
Yes, it is acceptable to portray Jesus as the Bread of Life; but
if he is he is the Head of the Body of Christ, then surely we
should realize we too are become Bread as members of the same
Body.[/quote]
[font=courier]Yes, Jesus came and finished the work he was
supposed to do here, but we are still here and will be until we
have come to the end of our appointed time. Of course there are
those who have buried or misused what they have been given so
from them there is no good fruit. We have work to do, but we do
not have to do it.
[/font]
[quote]… Should we look at Jesus as the only way to get out
daily Bread by eating him? Or does God expect us to turn
stones to bread ourselves?
When we pray, "Give us this day our daily bread," what do we
mean? It may seem to some people that this "bread" is
appearing out of nowhere, raining down like manna perhaps; but I
believe that if people are living in loving and just ways, they
are automatically growing as wheat and surely God will provide
their daily Bread, often produced out of what they are doing in
their lives by obedience to the Word.[/quote]
[font=courier]We must eat in order to survive and in order to
grow. The old body of each of us is dying, but the new or inner
man of us, if there is one, must be fed and as it is fed it
should be shared with those about us. This is not done by
force-feeding anyone but by always giving to the hungry what we
have:
“Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee…”
Acts 3:6
[/font]
[quote]1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but
God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that
watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Like many of Paul's writings, that can be construed oddly. We
could read that to mean Jesus as the Sower is not anything. I
don't think that is Paul means however. He means we should
always remember that it is God who gives the increase. That is
true in material terms as well as in spiritual.[/quote]
[font=courier]And leave it to men very often to construe it
oddly.
The talents were given to several men, but at least one set his
talent carefully aside to await his master’s return. Upon that
return he was rebuked and what he had started with was taken
away from him as well.
[/font]
[quote]I believe we tell if we have given someone a seed of
wheat. Something "goes out of" you. It is not something you
would talk about out loud. I'd say it is almost like a
desperate longing that the "other" finds the way to life.
Something of "self" is given away. Right or wrong, I am of the
opinion that Jesus was right when he first implied the Gentile
woman was a dog and that he ought not help her. I believe she
repented right then and there on the spot of the problem that
made her a dog. If she had argued with him about being called
a dog, she would not have received.[/quote]
[font=courier]Yes, all of us were dogs or other beasts until we
repented and began with the Lord’s help to kill our beasts. Men
do not easily admit to having a beastly nature or if they do
they do little to do anything about it:
“She [wisdom] hath killed her beasts…” Prov 9:2
[/font]
[quote]I am going on at some length here; but I also believe
that the younger Christians often need help or "virtue" from
more mature Christians. Thus we read that the prayers of the
righteous can do things that the prayers of others may not do.
This is not wasting the "virtue" as long as the younger
Christians are on track. It just means they are not mature yet
enough to produce their own wheat. Yet there needs to an end
to it at times as Paul expressed his frustration using milk and
meat as his metaphors.
1 Corinthians 31:3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as
unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in
Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye
were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying,
and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as
men?[/quote]
[font=courier]Amen! We must share with the hungry but don’t
share with the swine. Can we tell the difference?
[/font][quote]People can latch onto the Body of Christ
spiritually and never grow up spiritually. They want to take
but never to give. They can become like parasites -- like
Ananias and Sapphira with their money in the material world.
You could also refer to them as unproductive branches on a tree
sapping the strength of the tree. There are two stages, I
believe, yes; and at first the new Christian needs to take more
than he receives. If he's growing properly, no one will need
to tell him what to do -- over time, he will naturally start
giving more than he receives since he is now producing his own
bread. If this does not happen over a period of time,
something is wrong.[/quote]
[font=courier]Amen![/font]
#Post#: 10346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bread of Life
By: Kerry Date: February 18, 2015, 1:46 pm
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[quote author=Amadeus link=topic=986.msg10345#msg10345
date=1424278034]
The Bread is the good part that God has for us. When Jesus was
born to Mary he had all of the potential that every man born to
woman has but with advantages. One advantage was all of the Word
(or at least access to it) and full access to (or the fullness
of) the Holy Spirit. Jesus never messed up in his usage of his
advantage therefore he never sinned.
Each man born did not have more than a tiny glimmer of hope to
encounter what Jesus had from the start. But, at the start man
also had no sin. Unfortunately, we all have had sinful examples
set before us without the Word available to us. The Word was
already alive in Jesus. [/quote]What does the Star of Bethlehem
(house of bread) have to do with this? Every Spirit is a Star.
A Star shall rise out of Jacob, etc. The Star of Bethlehem
was not a physical star at all. Only the magi could see it.
Herod couldn't see it.
The Star is important since it is the highest expression of
self. In most people, the connection with their Stars is
broken. They are wandering around without a connection. They
are not receiving Light from it. What I say Jesus did was to
lead his entire life without severing that connection -- until
at the Cross when it was temporarily broken as it needed to be.
This was the "day of darkness" -- and do not ask me if the
darkness mentioned by Matthew was physical or not because I
can't say; but I know it was spiritual darkness.
If there is one man on the face of the earth with a connection
to a Star, the whole earth has Light. With other holy men,
we find that connection cut at times by errors made by their
living in the physical world. They usually re-establish it; but
Jesus seems unique to me in never once breaking that connection.
Thus we can say he never once disobeyed the Word, "Let there
be Light."
[quote]When a person begins to eat the carcase (scripture or
some other source of raw material [flesh of Jesus] provided by
God) and to drink the blood (that which gives Life to the
carcase) then and only then can a person move toward where Jesus
was and is.
Jesus was pure and sinless at natural birth with a Life giving
Spirit. The rest of us were pure and sinless at natural birth,
but we lacked the Life giving Spirit. Our spirit was incapable
to producing Life from the carcase.[/quote]
Most people are still born without the connection to their own
Stars. Before the Flood, this was not so; but that made it
possible for evil Spirits (dark stars) to connect with men and
corrupt them. After the Flood, that changed; and the only way
men without the Heavenly connection could receive Light was
through the Rainbow. "Gentiles" or "dogs" could receive Light
via a connection with the saints.
Jacob is depicted as the Sun in Joseph's dream, and I'd say that
is right. Before Jesus, Jacob was the Star; and he became that
Star when he wrestled with the angel. We are told that the sun
rose "for" him. Many translations have that wrong. That is
when Jacob made the connection. Who or what was the angel he
defeated? It was the fallen Guardian Angel of Esau -- of the
Edomites. Jacob defeated that angel who was the legitimate
and proper spiritual authority up to then -- and "supplanted" it
-- becoming the legitimate authority himself. To bring Light to
the Edomites. For their salvation. The theft of the
birthright was a good thing.
Other things in that passage are obscured by translation. The
same word "angel" is used earlier in the chapter but usually
translated as messengers. Jacob sent messengers. . . . Of
course, either translation is possible; but it's hard to see the
same word is being used if your translation is uneven, first
saying Jacob sent "messengers" and then saying an "angel"
showed up.
Of course, the "Sun of Righteousness" is another reference to
the spiritual Sun or Star. It shall "rise", the prophet says,
with "healing in its wings." Peter also talks about the star
rising in us. What is happening is that the "soul" below is
feminine and taking on the same form and size as the "Star"
above. When they are identical, the "marriage" occurs.
The person without his own connection to the Light must depend
at first on someone else's connection. He cannot summon his
own Star. That was the plight of the Gentiles.
[quote]The example of the Hebrews (Jews) in the wilderness shows
us where the natural man is without proper and real Life:
“Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He
gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth
you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and
giveth life unto the world.” John 6:31-33[/quote]Again we have a
translation problem. The translators seem influenced by the
later declaration which you quote below. There is no "he" in
that sentence. Indeed there is no pronoun at all. It is not
personified. In Greek it reads "bread of God is the come down
from heaven."
[quote]What is the “true bread”? Jesus continues:
“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that
cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me
shall never thirst.” John 6:35[/quote]I believe all the times we
read Jesus making "I AM" statements, he was not proclaiming past
truths but rather using the power of the Spoken Word to make it
true. This goes back to God's having Adam name the animals and
telling him to exercise dominion. The person with pure and
clean lips can make such "I AM" statements and they become
true. The person who says, "I AM a failure" is cursing
himself.
How does one make bread? First one grows the wheat, and then
the wheat is harvested. The husks are not used. In
Revelation when we read about beheadings, we should realize this
is not an altogether bad thing. What is valuable in the saints
is being harvested as wheat in order to make more Bread. The
wheat is then ground by millstones. Millstones are sacred
symbols for that reason. The wheat is placed on the stationary
bottom stone; and then the upper stone descends and turns. The
saint adopts a passive role during this process and allows
Heaven to "grind him down."
At the temptation, I say Jesus had just begun to grow the wheat;
and when he proclaimed he was the Bread of Life, he had already
grown and harvested much wheat and allowed Heaven to ground it
down.
[quote]People have interpreted much of John 6 and the last
supper as well as some of Paul’s words in the epistles as a
basis for eating a bit of natural bread and drinking a bit of
natural grape juice or wine and call it communion.
I literally consume the dead carcase of Jesus (scripture for
example by reading or studying) and drink his blood (the Holy
Ghost) to quicken (bring it to Life) the carcase within me.
[/quote]
I'd say people can receive the Bread of Life in either instance;
but the virtue is not found in either the physical bread and
wine or in the reading of words in a book. The willingness to
receive and adopting a passive attitude is more important --
wanting Heaven to act. One thing I do like about Communion is
if people are forced to confess their sins first. Agreeing to
admit their own errors is one way of grinding down things which
are unusable in their current state or form.
[quote]This is the true Bread as opposed that manna eaten in the
wilderness. Too many people today I believe either never eat or
only seldom eat the real carcase and few of those who do have
much of what they do eat quickened within them. If we are born
of God, we must also grow in a God even as a natural child grows
carnally both physically and spiritually.
Some that do grow properly do not always realize how it works. I
believe that that I do, but I know that there are gaps in my
knowledge and likely errors in what I have presented.[/quote]I'd
reverse something here. The "carcase" is in the saint who waits
for "the beast" to die. True life is found in the living
flesh of Christ.
I also believe there are three births: Physical, soul, and
finally spirit. Earth, water and blood, and Spirit.
[quote]Was Jesus already edible? The Word of God has always been
edible whether Jesus was always that Word or not, and whether or
not it was always possible for everyone to eat of it is another
question:
“Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against
thee.” Psalm 119:11
To hide it could be to consume it with his eyes, his mind…his
heart. The Psalmist wrote this long before the birth of Jesus to
Mary in Bethlehem. Is not reading and studying in the right
attitude (Spirit) consuming it and letting it be brought to
Life?
God hasn’t changed and man as a being hasn’t really changed
since he fell in the garden (with individual exceptions?) God
communed directly with man in that garden, but while the
directness of the connection has changed for reasons not
discussed here, the possibility of two-way communication has, I
believe, always existed at least for some. [/quote]Today we know
more about physical light; and Spiritual Light is similar in
some ways and different in some ways. Physical light comes
from one atom and to another. Almost all our light comes from
the sun one way or another. The photons once they leave the
sun can be shifted from one atom on the earth to another; but
they all came from the sun. Perhaps more important is the
concept of entanglement. When two atoms are connected by light,
they "know" about each other. In fact, they must know about
each other before the light happens. That sounds impossible,
but science has proved it. An atom on the sun knows where the
atom is on the earth that will "receive" the photon or it
wouldn't transmit it. It sounds impossible since the "future"
is involved; but that's the way it is. The humble electron of
the atom has the potential to "know" about other electrons in
other atoms -- and where they will be "in the future."
When David talks about hiding the Word then, I think we can
compare that to the entanglement of physical light and how
information is transferred. There may be further significance
in "hiding" too since the saint absorbs Divine Light and is
transformed daily; but to the idle eyes of men around him,
nothing is visibly changing. Jesus allowed only three disciples
to see his transformed body before the Crucifixion; and so far
as I know, no sinners saw him after the Resurrection.
[quote]When it comes to satan I lean [not definite because there
is support to be found for the other side] toward there being no
separate entity outside of man himself. Something was
corruptible in man before that first disobedience man went ahead
and corrupted it and has continued moving in that
direction.[/quote]
The entire realm of the satanic, so far as I can see, hinges on
the satanic in man himself. The Gentiles were already corrupted
before Eden. The 144,000 were to restore the earth. Thus they
needed to run into the "serpent" out there -- the serpent of the
Gentiles. What happened is their own nature (the proper serpent
nature with wings) was corrupted and cast down.
#Post#: 10347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bread of Life
By: Kerry Date: February 18, 2015, 1:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]The “dry land” was thirsty. Absolutely dry land will
produce nothing. Water is required for natural life as we know
it. The water of God that makes for spiritual Life I see as the
incorruptible Spirit, the Holy Spirit. This is the Life giving
water Jesus spoke about with the woman at the well. [/quote]At
the temptation, I would say Jesus was beginning to produce the
Living Waters directly after his Baptism.
Isaiah 35:1 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad
for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.
2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and
singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the
excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the
Lord, and the excellency of our God.
3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.
4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not:
behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a
recompence; he will come and save you.
5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of
the deaf shall be unstopped.
6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the
dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and
streams in the desert.
You can't have bread without wheat, and you can't have wheat
without water.
[quote]By the first two days, I suppose you mean the days
described in Genesis 1. I do not disagree with you on this, but
I have yet to sort out all of the events of that chapter and
apply them correctly to all of the events described elsewhere in
scripture and in the lives of men. [/quote]I think you can
compare Genesis 1 to the life of Jesus.
[quote]Peter is to become a stone or rock, but should not we
also? Could not Peter himself in this be a type or shadow of
what God has in His plan for every man who moves along God’s
Way?[/quote]
I'd say absolutely. Peter said so himself.
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual
house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices,
acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
[quote]Jesus is into God’s plan wholly even if he himself cannot
or will not reveal the whole thing. Man in his ways (satan)
presents his own selfish version. [Perhaps my version presented
here is similarly in some ways selfish filled some of the
imitation or false manna like that of the Jews in the
wilderness.]
I agree with your above statement, but add the possibility that
some have only the false bread or at least in part the false
bread that I already mentioned. [/quote]Or using the symbols of
the Old Testament, bread with yeast in it.
[quote]“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that
put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter
for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” Isaiah 5:20
It is very hard if not impossible to get back on the right track
after once getting off of it. God is certainly merciful, but He
does know the difference between acts done out of ignorance and
acts done for some know selfish reason and is completely fair in
how He handles it.[/quote]Yes, I think God is completely fair.
Being willfully ignorant seems hard to fix. In some cases,
maybe it's impossible in this life unless the person is willing
to admit he's been deliberately ignorant trying to avoid being
accountable.
[quote]While I have long seen in the creation week of Genesis as
a small view of, or an outline of, the greater picture, I never
thought to deal with it as it pertains to Jesus alone. I
appreciate your what you have shared on this. Of course, I will
likely delve into it some more myself.[/quote]
I also believe it shows us individually what to expect -- and
also the outline of history. If we understand how God works in
us as individuals, then I think it becomes clearer how he works
in the world as a whole follows a similar pattern. In history,
I put the life of Jesus as part of the Fourth Day -- when the
lights and stars were placed in the firmament. Something
changed in the way man could receive Light -- and when Day Four
was nearly over, that meant the next night was approaching.
[quote]The Bread we make is to be within us and to be shared
with others as Jesus broke up a very little bit and fed a
multitude. The tares are also made within us from our sources
other than God… or perhaps better described as perverting thing
that originally were from God. [/quote]
What do you think of that when Jesus said they cared only for
the bread and not the miracles? I just recently came to the
opinion that they saw only the earthly bread when in fact he had
also given the Spiritual Bread.
[quote]The tares will triumph if we consume more garbage than we
do of good nourishing food. Let us watch carefully what we eat
and drink.
Yes, Jesus came and finished the work he was supposed to do
here, but we are still here and will be until we have come to
the end of our appointed time. Of course there are those who
have buried or misused what they have been given so from them
there is no good fruit. We have work to do, but we do not have
to do it.
We must eat in order to survive and in order to grow. The old
body of each of us is dying, but the new or inner man of us, if
there is one, must be fed and as it is fed it should be shared
with those about us. This is not done by force-feeding anyone
but by always giving to the hungry what we have:
“Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee…”
Acts 3:6
And leave it to men very often to construe it oddly.
The talents were given to several men, but at least one set his
talent carefully aside to await his master’s return. Upon that
return he was rebuked and what he had started with was taken
away from him as well.
Yes, all of us were dogs or other beasts until we repented and
began with the Lord’s help to kill our beasts. Men do not easily
admit to having a beastly nature or if they do they do little to
do anything about it:
“She hath killed her beasts…” Prov 9:2
Amen! We must share with the hungry but don’t share with the
swine. Can we tell the difference?[/quote]
People may believe they are being kind by feeding the swine or
dogs; but the truth is some people will not change as long as
they get what they want from others. They want to take and
take and take. And they don't want to change the things in
their lives that make them needy. Why should they change if
they can get what they want for nothing? The problem of
continuing evil in the world depends in large part on how the
saints are duped by the Dark Side into feeding it and keeping it
alive. I used to want people to love me so much I did wrong
things by supporting evil and making it easier for people to
stay needing me -- in fact, I would say I wanted them to need me
so they wouldn't desert me.
There are forms of religion that thrive on something similar.
If you promise people salvation if they see how they need you,
you will get lots of needy people. The last thing you as a
false leader would want would be for them to stop needing you.
The more they sin, they more they need their leaders to tell
them they can fix things. The people go on spiritual highs and
lows. First they think everything's fixed and go on the high;
then they crash and go on the low -- and it's like an addiction,
back to the spiritual leader who gave you your last high.
I'd say the person who can't tell the difference between
children and swine may need to look at himself. I say that out
of my own experience. I wanted to be fooled into thinking
people would love me if I kept helping them. You see, I had
wrong motives for helping; and the truth was I wasn't really
helping at all. If anything, I was conspiring with them to make
matters worse. Oh yes, and I thought of myself as being so
saintly and loving! I felt superior to them.
I don't feel superior to the swine. I can see someone as a pig
spiritually, but that doesn't make me superior. Tomorrow he
could be something different. If I can see how I used to a pig,
what is there to feel superior about?
I see four possibilities: Returning evil for evil, good for
good for good, good for evil, and evil for good. I undertand
evil for evil and good for good -- that's the usual way of the
world. I understand good for evil too. What I do not
understand is how people return evil for good. If you spot
this in someone and it's a pattern in their lives, I think it's
safe to assume they're spiritual swine. You risk injury to
yourself by trying to be kind to them. Let them go. Perhaps
later, when eating husks like the prodigal son, they will come
to their senses. Love them the way the son's father loved him.
He'll be back after learning how it is to live like a pig.
The father was waiting, looking -- he expected his son would be
back someday -- and with the right attitude too, not wanting
something for nothing. The prodigal son had the right attitude
when he returned, willing to work.
If you have shown love to a pig and been injured, all is not
lost. Some day if you refuse to keep feeding him on his terms,
he may come to his senses and realize what he did wrong. He
may stop trying to con other people. He will have more dignity
and honesty; and he'll be happier. It is hard to do this to
people if you love them; but sometimes love is hard. I kept
wanting to think I could fix things for people until I figured
out there were some things they needed to want to fix for
themselves. The best way to love the unworthy is not to waste
resources that could be put to better use with people it might
really help.
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